Orc females

[Fettju]

as if Tolkien created a rich world but forgot to write a compelling plot

They are just walking and walking, and then walking some more, and then someone throws up

 

[Fettju]

The Hobbit is more interesting. And a book that is from the same time that is more captivating and scary is Broken Sword. That book needs a (censored) movie. I got stopped out by my sensitive inner parts when the human hero starts courting the girl they saved from the trolls. It has been a year now, I still haven't mustered the courage to continue.
That book with some more world building, or just 700 pages instead of 150 or what it is, would be amazing

 

[pmmg]

But if they are not offensively violent and not gaming, because they are the savage side of the human? More animal like.

My idea of orc males are that they challenge each other to show bravery and strength, but weaker orcs are just trampled. Like the weaker wolf or monkey in the pack, the weakest orc is pushed down and threatened all the time.
If a human male comes, they kill and eat him if he shows weakness, but of he shows strength they fight him one on one to see how strong he is compared to them.

I am thinking of the stereotype of nomadic step people, shitting and pissing in the saddle in their pants, spitting and drooling when they eat, always cursing and growling and either punching or killing someone, or challenging someone equal or better.
It is the masculine when it has no actual strength, just the violent savage part.
What would the corresponding of the feminine be? I don't want it to be the same as the male, and I also don't want it to be social, or in any way intelligent.

My story will use the unreliable narrator, so in-story facts are conflicting, but the essence of my orc is of savage wild spirit. Think of indigenous people like north american indians or maoris, but without the cultural and religious part, only the hunting and the sneaking and the warring.
For example, there is a tribe of humans who are driven into a never ending desert, and they bring with them a water sprite of sorts, a very minor female deity of a stream or a spring of their homeland, that will grow into a major goddess as they discover (or somehow dig or make) wells/springs and oasis. That water sprite in reality is a female orc.
But if I cannot come up with an archetype of a savage animalistic femininity that is not violent and not gossiping, I will do it in another way, and just have male orcs and no females.

I don't follow your first question.

The corresponding feminine would be ruthless attention to social status. The top female would want the top male, and not enjoy rivals. The top male might want multiple females, so...there might be a lot of fighting. Women can have physical prowess and be violent towards weaker males or females, but they might also just be wicked in other ways. Such as ruining the reputation of, the beauty of, the off-spring of, the favor of her rivals. If she has to beat her rival, or peck her eyes out, and spill acid on her face...she'll do it...cause she's savage, cruel, and wants to maintain her place in the social order.

I am not sure how you intend female orcs to compare physically, but I would assume the males are still more capable in brutal encounters. If this is not true, there would be room for a lot more to be different, but you wont be dealing with femininity, you will just be changing the brutes.

 

[pmmg]

Tolkien on the Eagles.

 

[Fettju]

cause she's savage, cruel, and wants to maintain her place in the social order

Yeah...but there must be another aspect of being animalistic and uncivilized, and not only being violent

 

[pmmg]

Okay...I dont think I got your meaning.

I think some female animalistic qualities would include taking care of the young and nursing, upkeep of the cave(home), and keeping things in a state of mending that they remain functional. She might also have a much larger say over what gets eaten and what does not, and when it is time to move. Since she is Orc, and in an Orc society, maybe she makes weapons, and keeps the boys fighting with each other, so they become tough. She might look to become pregnant often, so as to keep up the supply of warriors.

Might also scratch at fleas.

 

[Prince of Spires]

Interesting btw Lord of the rings. I have never come to understand how the ring makes Sauron stronger. I think Tolkien had quite a few holes in his story.

The interesting thing here is that the Lord of the Rings is told from the perspective of the hobbits. And they don't know what will happen if Sauron gets the ring, they only know it will be bad. Since they don't know, the reader doesn't know either. While it's likely enough that Tolkien himself didn't know exactly, it's something that is very much in character and matching the story.

 

[Fettju]

And they don't know what will happen if Sauron gets the ring, they only know it will be bad

Okey yes, but then there is the council in Riverdale, isn't that "filmed" in the book without the hobbits? It's been a while since I read the books, 25 years or something. Maybe it would have been more interesting with not the pov of the hobbits. Some parts are so boring. When Sam is tired and whining and Frodo is depressed, and it just goes on and on.


A really interesting take would be a gnostic version, where Gandalf and Galadriel and all of them are the bad guys, suppressing Sauron who is one of the elves who never went to the Valar-land. Sauron wants to build something for the local elves, but Gandalf is sent to stop him, and the hobbits and the humans are all lied to about who is really the bad guys. Just like real life politics. Sauron is just a nationalist, "this land is elf land!" And the globalist elves who are allies of the valar all go, "they are not even elves! They are orcs! Fight them! Give them no respite!"
One of the hobbits realize this truth, and Gandalf and Galadriel tells him that it is the whispers of Sauron.
The same with Saruman: Sauron finally gets him to see the reality of the situation, he lets some of the eastern elves stay in his fortress and build a resistance army against the globalists, but no, Gandalf comes there and sends tree monsters to fight them.
The story ends with the good guys, the ones who stand up and actually do something, and fight for the little guy, all are defeated, and the globalists win.
The end scene is Galadriel saying to Sam Gamgi "Bugs are really not that bad! They are actually quite good. Here, have a fly I just swatted with my elf quickness"

 

[Queshire]

Globalists.... really....

 

[Fettju]

Since she is Orc, and in an Orc society, maybe she makes weapons

No, I probably was not clear.

The orcs are spirits, as in archetypes or movements in the psyche of man. But now they suddenly got bodies and run around in the forests.
They have no society, they are elementals of savage and animalistic and wild.
They are the part of human psyche that we need for new ideas and refreshment, that in society is represented by the fringe part. When it is not there, society is all about control and stifledness.

So they are like humans, but without any order and culture and intellectual activity. Humans with green skin (because, hiding among the leaves when stalking) sharp strong teeth (to cut flesh and crush bones, and kill if their hands aren't enough) that hunt and sneak and fight and reproduce if they find opportunity.
But as they are still one part of man, they have packs. They are not solitary.

The orc male challenge, fight and hunt, but not because the orc society is structured and organized that way, but because of their nature and for survival. Like wolves. Except just like women are weaker than men, the orc female is as well (while wolf females are strong.) So she doesn't challenge, she only fights to defend herself, she might hunt, but not by throwing herself at wild bulls and elks and bears.

What would she be like? "She picks berries and mushrooms for the babies" yes but that is already pretty civilized behaviour, and I try to have as little of that as possible. As with gossiping about other females or whatever.
How would a woman be like if she was just wild? Or maybe, what would the interaction be between orc males who always challenge, fight and hunt, and the females who might hunt smaller pray, but don't fight and don't challenge?

 

[Queshire]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh.... well, if that's the sort of thing that you want I'd say that having them focus on magic would be a pretty simple answer.

 

[Rexenm]

It could be something as simple as accent, like in Redwall. Those moles girt be noise.

 

[CupofJoe]

Okey yes, but then there is the council in Riverdale, isn't that "filmed" in the book without the hobbits? It's been a while since I read the books, 25 years or something. Maybe it would have been more interesting with not the pov of the hobbits. Some parts are so boring. When Sam is tired and whining and Frodo is depressed, and it just goes on and on.


A really interesting take would be a gnostic version, where Gandalf and Galadriel and all of them are the bad guys, suppressing Sauron who is one of the elves who never went to the Valar-land. Sauron wants to build something for the local elves, but Gandalf is sent to stop him, and the hobbits and the humans are all lied to about who is really the bad guys. Just like real life politics. Sauron is just a nationalist, "this land is elf land!" And the globalist elves who are allies of the valar all go, "they are not even elves! They are orcs! Fight them! Give them no respite!"
One of the hobbits realize this truth, and Gandalf and Galadriel tells him that it is the whispers of Sauron.
The same with Saruman: Sauron finally gets him to see the reality of the situation, he lets some of the eastern elves stay in his fortress and build a resistance army against the globalists, but no, Gandalf comes there and sends tree monsters to fight them.
The story ends with the good guys, the ones who stand up and actually do something, and fight for the little guy, all are defeated, and the globalists win.
The end scene is Galadriel saying to Sam Gamgi "Bugs are really not that bad! They are actually quite good. Here, have a fly I just swatted with my elf quickness"

There is The Last Ringbearer, where the story is told from an Orcs PoV.

 

[pmmg]

I am not really sure what you are going for. I am lost in the whole orcs are spirit things....but....

I mean how do animals live in the wild. The males and females usually pair up for mating and divide labor until the young aren't around and then back to fending for themselves. If the male is killed the female goes hunting. The female might fatten up to be able to produce more milk without hunting in prep. She might also go into heat.

If its a pack, they fight and divide labor with the pack, if its solitary they just forage on their own. The female nature of them would only seem to matter when they are reproducing, and taking care of new young.

If they have no society, then temporary dens or caves might suffice. If they have any intelligence at all, I suspect that wont last long before becoming permanent, more tribal, communities.

 

[Finchbearer]

I was curious as to what a female orc would look like because all I had in my head was the female singer from Swedish band Lorde…

So I googled female orcs, I should not have done that.

 

[pmmg]

I am sure Lorde will be pleased to heat that

 

[Queshire]

I mean how do animals live in the wild. The males and females usually pair up for mating and divide labor until the young aren't around and then back to fending for themselves. If the male is killed the female goes hunting. The female might fatten up to be able to produce more milk without hunting in prep. She might also go into heat.

Well if the Orcs are drawn from humans then it'd make sense to take inspiration from other great apes.

 

[pmmg]

If only there was a way to look that up...
Primate Behavior: Social Structure

I'd say that would not be a bad model, but the OP'er has repeatedly pulled back from anything social. Apes are social. Not my book, up to him.

 

[Finchbearer]

That was a misspelling, I meant this lot, Lordi

 

[pmmg]

Well...aren't they pretty. I think I would prefer the orc women.