Mindfire
Istar
Anyone else bugged by the title of this thread? It just says "j". Can that be fixed?
Thanks for using a word I never looked up before very useful!
I think in real life that dinosaurs and large lizards (komodo, crocodile, etc) are probably where dragons came from, but I think that the quote refers to the nephilim, doesn't it? The giant offspring of humans and angels?
I've got those in my books too...
Has anyone had their dwarves be related to humans before? I think of them as wholly distinct families/species/etc.But then again, we don't refer to dwarfs as Homosapien-dwarfis either.
I agree with you, but I think the vast majority consider anything with the same name as something else to be cliche.I might also point out, cliches aren't cliche if they are different.
ShortHairConsider me ninja'd.
I've toyed for years with writing a story on this topic. Could someone have found dinosaur bones, centuries before the birth of paleontology, and reconstructed them as a dragon? What else would the biblical line "giants in the earth" refer to?
Gremlins.I have restored the Thread's original name, but I have no idea why it had changed...
I remember watching something on TV about the origins of dragons. The premise was an attempt to explain why so many cultures, separated by thousands of miles, all came up with the same type of mythical beast, before anyone would be able to travel these distances. The explanation was that it had something to do with residual primitive fear of predators, like the scales coming from poisonous snakes, claws from countless predatory mammals, and the wings an association of carrion birds. This was awhile back, but it's an interesting theory.
I personally like to think that at some point in time, dragons actually existed. Like direwolves.
A few years ago Animal Planet or Discovery Channel came out with a special that they presented as though they had actually uncovered evidence of dragons. I was FLIPPING OUT for like the first 40 minutes of the special because they never came out and said that it was fake until at one point they were like, "If someone was to discover this..." and I was like, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING MEEEEEE.
Still, it was pretty cool. The premise was that they uncovered a medieval dragon carcass that had been frozen in some mountain range and plotted its evolution back from prehistory. At one point they show a dragon fight a T-Rex so you know it had to be a good show.
I remember watching something on TV about the origins of dragons. The premise was an attempt to explain why so many cultures, separated by thousands of miles, all came up with the same type of mythical beast, before anyone would be able to travel these distances. The explanation was that it had something to do with residual primitive fear of predators, like the scales coming from poisonous snakes, claws from countless predatory mammals, and the wings an association of carrion birds. This was awhile back, but it's an interesting theory.
I would say that it is much more likely that we are interpreting the phenomenon through western eyes. Instead of saying 'Oh, obviously, the lung is its own monster invented by east Asian peoples' we jump to the idea of this as an 'Asian dragon.'
I agree completely with this.I would say that it is much more likely that we are interpreting the phenomenon through western eyes. Instead of saying 'Oh, obviously, the lung is its own monster invented by east Asian peoples' we jump to the idea of this as an 'Asian dragon.'
I can't say I understand what you're saying here. What I was referring to was not just asian dragons, but dragons across a wide cultural extreme. I'm not sure how asian dragons were specified in this TV series, then again I'm not sure why eastern dragons were specified in your comment.
I would say that it is much more likely that we are interpreting the phenomenon through western eyes. Instead of saying 'Oh, obviously, the lung is its own monster invented by east Asian peoples' we jump to the idea of this as an 'Asian dragon.'
I agree completely with this.
Anyway, I've decided to include orcs and goblins in one of my projects, but I plan a big twist for them:
They are actually different races of human beings exactly like the hero; he only perceives them to be monstrous and evil because of a delusion the villain imparts onto him using a magic necklace, and they are actually on the sympathetic side.
Changed my mind about that.I thought your world didn't have magic?
Changed my mind about that.
Sorry! Was it because you believed it for a second too! That was my reaction then!You seriously just made me spit wine out on my keyboard, damnit!!!
I think this is silly. That's like saying a leyak isn't a type of vampire or Frankenstein isn't a type of golem. We use English to describe things because we are speaking English. If I was speaking Japanese I would say ryu or tatsu and if I was speaking Chinese, I would say lung. But here's the kicker, if a Chinese person was speaking English, they would probably describe their dragons as dragons. ...because they are dragons.I would say that it is much more likely that we are interpreting the phenomenon through western eyes. Instead of saying 'Oh, obviously, the lung is its own monster invented by east Asian peoples' we jump to the idea of this as an 'Asian dragon.'
I think the point he was trying to make was that a theory for similar creatures across cultures (not just China/Europe, but others also) all have this creature which is a hodgepodge of our biggest predators--cats, raptors, snakes, etc. Now, the anthropologist in question is of course relying on the fact that the traditions couldn't be transmitted across cultures and that we are able to genetically program a speciesism into ourselves that would be expressed artistically or under the influence of drugs/fear into a dragon or dragon-like creature. This unfortunately, since the theory is interesting, results in his argument not having as much scientific merit as it might otherwise.Then, one of our cultural anthropologists (or something similar) shows up and says, 'This is their version of a dragon.'
OK, so if we equate them with dragons let's just keep using English to describe them then. Right? Since we are speaking English...Well, the point I'm trying to make is that there are no dragons outside of western culture. Just things we equate with our concept of dragons.
I don't know that I've ever disagreed with you so much about something Shockley.Ask yourself this: What are the similarities between the Asian and Western Dragon? Basically none. They are both vaguely reptilian and that is the end of it. The western dragon is a thing of evil (almost universally), and usually in Christian cultures a representation of the Devil. In Asian communities, it's almost always a positive force - most of the time it is a god worthy of veneration.
Does anyone in our genre actually think of the western concept of a dragon when they think of dragons anymore? I think most people think of a Tolkien / D&D concept if they think of anything. In those, dragons were intelligent but could choose their own leanings. There were good and bad dragons and even if they were portrayed as having European body types more often than not, they were rarely malevolent beasts that lived the lives of hedonists without real dreams and goals.Any time you hear someone say 'this culture has a dragon,' it's best to interpret that sentence as 'in my opinion, this is fairly close to the western concept of a dragon and I am going to label it as such, even if it's inaccurate.'