Portraying Character Ages Accurately

[Ireth]

After receiving some feedback on the opening of Winter's Queen, I'm a little concerned about the portrayal of my heroine, Ariel. She's a few weeks shy of 17, but some have remarked that she comes off as about 13. This is a bit of a problem, as I don't want her to seem naive or childish. Does anyone have any advice as to how I can keep her actions age-appropriate (and for those who have said she seems young, could you give examples of where she acts under her age so I can edit them)?

The opening scene is here for your perusal: http://mythicscribes.com/forums/showcase/4848-rethinking-my-opening-scene.html I advise you to read through all of the revisions, not just the first one.

 

[CupofJoe]

Please remember that I don't know much about Trick or Treating. It just doesn't happen around where I live in the UK. Everything I know I have learnt from TV or Film.

So with that in mind... It seems odd that someone “turning seventeen next month” would go Trick or Treating at all; with no apparent irony or comment that it might be the last time. Maybe teenagers do in the US...

The other thing that did strike me is that Ariel is wearing a Disney costume... and a demure one [from the pictures I had to Google]. Is it a childhood costume worn for nostalgia?

[From my limited knowledge of teenage girls [all I have as reference is a 16yo niece] is that the word slutty or sexy would probably have to be in the costume title... SBT]

The image that someone will “go Tiffany Aching” is a great one!

I read your scene and its revisions but I haven't read all the comments in the other post so I may be repeating ideas or notes that have gone before.
Hope this was helpful. If not just ignore me.

 

[Penpilot]

I read the 3rd revision. These are my impressions in regards to her age. Note I have not been a teen in many many years so I make no claim to the absolute veracity of my opinions, so take them for what they're worth.

Having Ariel go out for trick-or-treating makes her sound younger. From my experience once you get to around 15 trick or treating turns into Haloween parties where teens can meet other teens, specifically other guys and gals. Now this isn't to say she can't go trick-or-treating. A simple acknowledgement that she may be too old for it and a reason she goes anyway would deal with this issue I think.

"it's a school night, and you need sleep." This makes her sound younger too. Vincent can warn her about it being a school night but reminding her she needs sleep takes it too far for her age.


"Yeah, I know. I'll be careful, I promise..." Sounds too compliant for a teen. IMHO she'd complain more about being treated as a child any time Vincent tries to advise her to be careful. She'd assert that she knows what she's doing and that she's practically adult at least a little more.

Vincent walked to Ariel's side as she shrugged on her coat and stepped into her shoes. He pulled her close and kissed her forehead, then let go and stepped back. "Have fun, be back before midnight, and say hello to your uncle for me."

- here Vincent is treating her like she's leaving the house for the first time. IMHO dial back the touchy affection a little. It's fine to have Vincent be affectionate but I think in this scene it's a little thick making Ariel seem so young that Vincent has to baby her. My suggestion would be to shift some of Vincent's externally expressed worries into internal thoughts, so you don't lose any of the emotion of him worrying but it'll feel less like he's babying her. I'm not a parent but I would think parents never stop worrying about their child but they'd dial back the external expression a little more as the child gets older.

 

[Ireth]

Please remember that I don't know much about Trick or Treating. It just doesn't happen around where I live in the UK. Everything I know I have learnt from TV or Film.

So with that in mind... It seems odd that someone “turning seventeen next month” would go Trick or Treating at all; with no apparent irony or comment that it might be the last time. Maybe teenagers do in the US...

Admittedly I don't know too much about the prevalence of trick or treating in England; it's quite common in the US and Canada. I just needed to get Ariel out on her own, and a Halloween party didn't really appeal either, because I also wanted to mention Ariel's uncle before he became a character, and he doesn't seem the type to host such a party in my mind. *shrug* On another note, where are you from?

The other thing that did strike me is that Ariel is wearing a Disney costume... and a demure one [from the pictures I had to Google]. Is it a childhood costume worn for nostalgia?

No, Ariel's just a big Disney fan. It can't be a childhood costume; Tangled came out in the UK in 2011, and the story takes place in that year.

[From my limited knowledge of teenage girls [all I have as reference is a 16yo niece] is that the word slutty or sexy would probably have to be in the costume title... SBT]

I find that notion kind of ridiculous. Not all teenage girls act like that -- I and my sisters and female friends certainly didn't and don't.

The image that someone will “go Tiffany Aching” is a great one!

Finally, someone caught that!

I read your scene and its revisions but I haven't read all the comments in the other post so I may be repeating ideas or notes that have gone before.
Hope this was helpful. If not just ignore me.

Your feedback is appreciated.

Having Ariel go out for trick-or-treating makes her sound younger. From my experience once you get to around 15 trick or treating turns into Haloween parties where teens can meet other teens, specifically other guys and gals. Now this isn't to say she can't go trick-or-treating. A simple acknowledgement that she may be too old for it and a reason she goes anyway would deal with this issue I think.

I don't think she's necessarily too old. My younger sister just turned 17, and she's going trick-or-treating this year with our older sister, who just turned 24.

"it's a school night, and you need sleep." This makes her sound younger too. Vincent can warn her about it being a school night but reminding her she needs sleep takes it too far for her age.

Okay, I'll give you that one.

"Yeah, I know. I'll be careful, I promise..." Sounds too compliant for a teen. IMHO she'd complain more about being treated as a child any time Vincent tries to advise her to be careful. She'd assert that she knows what she's doing and that she's practically adult at least a little more.

I don't think it sounds too compliant, personally. Yes, she is almost an adult, but she also knows the danger of the Fae. She's not supposed to come off as the stereotypical rebellious teenager by going out against her father's wishes.

- here Vincent is treating her like she's leaving the house for the first time. IMHO dial back the touchy affection a little. It's fine to have Vincent be affectionate but I think in this scene it's a little thick making Ariel seem so young that Vincent has to baby her. My suggestion would be to shift some of Vincent's externally expressed worries into internal thoughts, so you don't lose any of the emotion of him worrying but it'll feel less like he's babying her. I'm not a parent but I would think parents never stop worrying about their child but they'd dial back the external expression a little more as the child gets older.

It's not meant to come across as babying, just loving. She's fine with it, she loves him back just as much. Especially considering they were almost separated forever when Ariel was a newborn, I think they value togetherness a little more than the next normal family. I think I will scale it back a bit, though.

Thanks for the advice, both of you. ^^

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

From personal experience (I'm only a year past 17), I've found its the age where you kind of mentally rise to meet the world. I've not read your work yet, because I wanted to give my basic views first before analysing, and also I don't know how much difference there is psychologically at that age between male and female views of the world. My personal experience is this though; more than before you consider yourself to have a right to be counted among the adults of the world, while still keeping your teenager status in many ways. While I think from 13-16 (roughly) you mentally prepare to meet the next level of being a teenager, I think at 17 you mentally meet the challenge of being an adult. While still enjoying being a teenager you consider yourself a man/woman. For me I think this showed itself mostly in ways like my attempts (and generally success) to become more independant, like doing my own shopping more or taking charge of my bank account, and generally chilling out more with the other adults of the family and having conversations on a more "equal" level. Often you get irritated if people underestimate your age status.

Sorry if that was no help at all, just thought I'd throw that in, its the main thing I bear in mind for writing young characters. I'll do a direct analysis of your work as well soon.

 

[Griffin]

I read little of the opening scene. I think the main issue is the dialogue between Ariel and Vincent. If she was 13, it sounds like the dad is indulging on the girl's fantasy of "being a princess." As a 17 year old, it sounds cheesy. Perhaps it is because their relationship sounds too good to be true. I am not sure how most father/daughter relationships go, but the daughter is not usually that close to the father. It still holds truth even when the mother figure is absent.

Perhaps if Ariel had more defiance? Not so much, "I hate you, Dad! You never understand me!" When he tells her that she needs to be back home soon, she can easily say, "I'm not a little girl anymore." Teens have the innate belief that they know everything and that they're invincible. It is not true for everyone. But that idea is associated with older teens and may help your readers perceive Ariel as older.

 

[Ireth]

From personal experience (I'm only a year past 17), I've found its the age where you kind of mentally rise to meet the world. I've not read your work yet, because I wanted to give my basic views first before analysing, and also I don't know how much difference there is psychologically at that age between male and female views of the world. My personal experience is this though; more than before you consider yourself to have a right to be counted among the adults of the world, while still keeping your teenager status in many ways. While I think from 13-16 (roughly) you mentally prepare to meet the next level of being a teenager, I think at 17 you mentally meet the challenge of being an adult. While still enjoying being a teenager you consider yourself a man/woman. For me I think this showed itself mostly in ways like my attempts (and generally success) to become more independant, like doing my own shopping more or taking charge of my bank account, and generally chilling out more with the other adults of the family and having conversations on a more "equal" level. Often you get irritated if people underestimate your age status.

Sorry if that was no help at all, just thought I'd throw that in, its the main thing I bear in mind for writing young characters. I'll do a direct analysis of your work as well soon.

Thanks for your input, Aidan. I'll keep that in mind.

I read little of the opening scene. I think the main issue is the dialogue between Ariel and Vincent. If she was 13, it sounds like the dad is indulging on the girl's fantasy of "being a princess." As a 17 year old, it sounds cheesy. Perhaps it is because their relationship sounds too good to be true. I am not sure how most father/daughter relationships go, but the daughter is not usually that close to the father. It still holds truth even when the mother figure is absent.

I don't see why that should be so. I don't personally have that close of a relationship with my dad, probably due partly to the fact that he works out of town a lot and I don't see or speak to him as often as I do my mom, but who's to say any other girl wouldn't be that close to her dad? Considering Vincent saved Ariel from being kidnapped within a week of her birth, I should think they want to be close to each other often, and that would enhance the emotional side of their relationship. And what's wrong with a bit of cosplay for Halloween? Ariel doesn't regularly fantasize about being a princess -- in fact the whole point of the story is her trying to escape that fantasy turned reality.

Perhaps if Ariel had more defiance? Not so much, "I hate you, Dad! You never understand me!" When he tells her that she needs to be back home soon, she can easily say, "I'm not a little girl anymore." Teens have the innate belief that they know everything and that they're invincible. It is not true for everyone. But that idea is associated with older teens and may help your readers perceive Ariel as older.

Regardless of whether Ariel acknowledges her age or not, it doesn't change the fact that she knows about the danger she might face in going out on Halloween. If I were to, say, take a hike through a forest that was known to contain bears, I'd listen to every bit of advice I was given on how to avoid being mauled. (For reference's sake, I'm 22.) It's the same idea here. Ariel has never personally encountered a Fae (the incident when she was newborn doesn't count), just as I have never seen a bear in close enough proximity to be in danger. She just wants to be safe. The logical thing would of course be to not go out on Halloween at all, but the villain knows better than to target anyone in their home, where there is plenty of iron and steel to be used against him, and parents who would protect their children at all costs.

 

[Griffin]

I don't see why that should be so. I don't personally have that close of a relationship with my dad, probably due partly to the fact that he works out of town a lot and I don't see or speak to him as often as I do my mom, but who's to say any other girl wouldn't be that close to her dad? Considering Vincent saved Ariel from being kidnapped within a week of her birth, I should think they want to be close to each other often, and that would enhance the emotional side of their relationship. And what's wrong with a bit of cosplay for Halloween? Ariel doesn't regularly fantasize about being a princess -- in fact the whole point of the story is her trying to escape that fantasy turned reality.

Regardless of whether Ariel acknowledges her age or not, it doesn't change the fact that she knows about the danger she might face in going out on Halloween. If I were to, say, take a hike through a forest that was known to contain bears, I'd listen to every bit of advice I was given on how to avoid being mauled. (For reference's sake, I'm 22.) It's the same idea here. Ariel has never personally encountered a Fae (the incident when she was newborn doesn't count), just as I have never seen a bear in close enough proximity to be in danger. She just wants to be safe. The logical thing would of course be to not go out on Halloween at all, but the villain knows better than to target anyone in their home, where there is plenty of iron and steel to be used against him, and parents who would protect their children at all costs.

Some daughters do get along well with their fathers. But every relationship has a flaw. You said he saved her when she was infant? Maybe Vincent is a little overprotective. I was simply pointing out that their relationship sounds a little too good to be true. Parental relationships with teens can get pretty rocky real quick. The teen is becoming an adult, yet they're still a child. That can cause conflict.

I merely offering suggestions to your question. Please do not feel the need to defend your characters. If you are content with your characters and your past readers have made you doubt yourself, then don't change a thing. You won't make every reader happy. I have had people wanting me to change the entire gender of some characters. I didn't because I liked my characters for who they are. If you feel the same about yours, then don't change a thing. It's your story. Your characters.

And I was not insulting her Halloween costume. That was not my intention. I apologize.

 

[Ireth]

Some daughters do get along well with their fathers. But every relationship has a flaw. You said he saved her when she was infant? Maybe Vincent is a little overprotective. I was simply pointing out that their relationship sounds a little too good to be true. Parental relationships with teens can get pretty rocky real quick. The teen is becoming an adult, yet they're still a child. That can cause conflict.

He is very protective, yes. I can see how their relationship might seem unrealistic, but people have their good days and their bad days. This just happens to be a good day. I don't want to burden Vincent with the guilt of knowing that almost the last thing he and Ariel did before the kidnapping was argue -- he'll be torn up enough because he couldn't reach her in time to save her, and the knowledge that if he doesn't find her, he'll probably never see her again.

I merely offering suggestions to your question. Please do not feel the need to defend your characters. If you are content with your characters and your past readers have made you doubt yourself, then don't change a thing. You won't make every reader happy. I have had people wanting me to change the entire gender of some characters. I didn't because I liked my characters for who they are. If you feel the same about yours, then don't change a thing. It's your story. Your characters.

And I was not insulting her Halloween costume. That was not my intention. I apologize.

Apology accepted. Thank you for being respectful about this. If I came off as too harsh and defensive, I apologize as well.