PTSD and nightmares?

[Ireth]

I'm utterly stuck right now in an important section of a text RP. My two protagonists, Casper and Vincent, have recently escaped from three weeks of torturous captivity. I'm trying to write a nightmare sequence for Vincent dealing with his captivity, and having trouble keeping him in character while making the nightmare effective and terrifying.

Vincent is typically very stubborn, not one to give up without a fight, but weeks of starvation, pain and despair would affect him as deeply as any other -- perhaps even more than any other, since his greatest fear is being helpless, and he certainly is that while captive. The nightmare I want to give him involves being brutally beaten by one of his captors, with Casper unable to help him. I want Vincent to a) be very helpless and b) legitimately fear for his life while still keeping in character with regards to his stubborn nature.

I've received complaints (from no one here, luckily) that making him despair and be afraid is out of character, yet I feel it is a perfectly normal human reaction in such a circumstance, even for a stubborn person. Some have suggested having him fight back against his captor, but I'm not sure how well that would go over either, as Vincent is in too much pain to move very much while he's being beaten.

Now, as Vincent is dreaming and fearing for his life, in the real world he's in the hospital recovering slowly from his wounds, with a few of his friends there for emotional support, because his family can't be there for him for a number of reasons. The dream occurs on his second night in the hospital; he isn't comatose, just sleeping normally, though he will likely have a lot of painkillers in his system, and so he'll probably need outside help to wake up properly. (That's part of the reason why his friends are there; they'll be sleeping on cots in his room.)

To the point: How can I balance pre-established characterization with the logical consequences of severe trauma to make an effective PTSD-induced nightmare for my poor tortured protagonist?

 

[Kit]

I think that being forced "out of character" is a perfect way to *show* how violently and vehemently he was affected. Not appreciating a problem here.

 

[Griffin]

I've been thinking about this since the discussion last night. I think it was agreed that he should be scared, but a greater concern on how he should portray it.

Have you thought about anger? He's angry at the kidnappers for making him feel helpless and he's angry at himself for being weak. And it doesn't have to be Hulk angry, but more of a hysteric angry. Like he doesn't want to go back. He can attempt to resist the kidnappers (maybe not physically, but try to mentally block them out).

I remember you mentioned that he escaped because of a fire? Maybe have him feel like he's burning up. He might fall into the flight or fight response. Since he can't fight, he wants to get away. As he is too weak to get up, desperation skyrockets.

This is all brainstorming. Just trying to throw some ideas out there. But for a stubborn personality, anger would be a better way to portray his fear.

 

[gavintonks]

The idea of a nightmare has 3 aspects
1 - is he just experiencing a bad dream as in images
2 - is he in the dream experiencing apparently real things
3 - he is experiencing his fears through images that petrify him

The beauty of a dream is allowing your characters to be out of character as it is their base fears they are facing, th direction to the scene is taken by the way they perceive it, the quandary i see is having 2 characters sharing the scene in the dream. how are you going to convey hopelessness or inability to act with a dream character?

 

[Ireth]

Kit: That's exactly what I told my RP partner, but she didn't like it. :/ Whatever. He's my character, I can play him how I want.

Griffin: That is an excellent idea.

Gavin: I think this nightmare is mostly points 2 and 3. The torture he went through outside the dream is very real, and it would feel just as real and terrifying in the nightmare.

I'm not sure what you mean by "two characters sharing the scene". Vincent is the only one having the nightmare at that moment in time; Casper is elsewhere, and in no position to be dreaming human dreams (he's a lycanthrope currently in wolf form under the full moon, so his mind is that of an animal).

 

[gavintonks]

The nightmare I want to give him involves being brutally beaten by one of his captors, with Casper unable to help him.

Sorry I thought that part of the fear is this sentence.
sometimes the biggest fear is the expectation without the action
Good luck

 

[ascanius]

Take this with a grain of sand because I did a night shift at the hospital ER on Friday and haven't slept in about 38 hours, very long day/s. So I'm a little out of it at the moment.

I'm utterly stuck right now in an important section of a text RP. My two protagonists, Casper and Vincent, have recently escaped from three weeks of torturous captivity. I'm trying to write a nightmare sequence for Vincent dealing with his captivity, and having trouble keeping him in character while making the nightmare effective and terrifying.

Maybe you changed things, or wrong poster but is this the same torture where a girl is raped because vincent does divulge information? Is casper a girl? I only ask because I have an story you could use if this is the case, something I think would help out a good bit.

Vincent is typically very stubborn, not one to give up without a fight, but weeks of starvation, pain and despair would affect him as deeply as any other -- perhaps even more than any other, since his greatest fear is being helpless, and he certainly is that while captive. The nightmare I want to give him involves being brutally beaten by one of his captors, with Casper unable to help him. I want Vincent to a) be very helpless and b) legitimately fear for his life while still keeping in character with regards to his stubborn nature.

Is it possible to look at the before and after? What I mean is traumatic events such as this change people. Have any of you meet people who over compensate for a weakness? What I mean is this. Someone went through a traumatic event and now has this constant need to put up a very strong macho appearance in an effort to not appear vulnerable, way over the top, more of what someone thinks is macho. Vincent can still be stubborn but in a different way, such as stubborn about having the need to control his surroundings in an effort to make sure that it never happens again. It's kinda about making it so over the top that it's not a believable way to keep himself safe. At the same time it showed just how stubborn he is about something that doesn't work and is pointless.

I've received complaints (from no one here, luckily) that making him despair and be afraid is out of character, yet I feel it is a perfectly normal human reaction in such a circumstance, even for a stubborn person. Some have suggested having him fight back against his captor, but I'm not sure how well that would go over either, as Vincent is in too much pain to move very much while he's being beaten.

Couldn't that also be called character progression or regression as the case may be. I cannot imagine a character being troutrued and able to fight back, I would think it would be way to draining both physically and emotionally.

Now, as Vincent is dreaming and fearing for his life, in the real world he's in the hospital recovering slowly from his wounds, with a few of his friends there for emotional support, because his family can't be there for him for a number of reasons. The dream occurs on his second night in the hospital; he isn't comatose, just sleeping normally, though he will likely have a lot of painkillers in his system, and so he'll probably need outside help to wake up properly. (That's part of the reason why his friends are there; they'll be sleeping on cots in his room.)

I see two possiblilities. One seperate and stress his fear of being unable to control what happened and his stubborness. What I mean is this. In the dream as with what happened he has no control so you can stress this lack of control. Have him relive the events but in a twisted way. For instance in the dream show how he views his lack of control. Like any questions he is asked make them have no right answer, so even if right, he still gets tortured, or no matter what he does he cannot control what happens to him. Meanwhile in the waking world he is stubborn about controlling unimportant things, anything really. It could even be a need to prove to himself that no one can hurt him again.

Second. Again have him relive things but in a twisted way by having him fight with stubborn persistence in the dream where even if he beats the crap out of his torturer he still gets tortured. Again to show that he now views himself without power.

The point with changing what actually happened and what happens in the dream is to show how he views what happened.

To the point: How can I balance pre-established characterization with the logical consequences of severe trauma to make an effective PTSD-induced nightmare for my poor tortured protagonist?

Traumatic events bring out fears that didn't exist before, or were never life controlling. So he can react with his pre-established norms (stubborn) to new problems/fears (being powerless) that change how he acts (a need to control the external to give him power) with those established norms (stubborn).
Hope that helps.

 

[Ireth]

Maybe you changed things, or wrong poster but is this the same torture where a girl is raped because vincent does divulge information? Is casper a girl? I only ask because I have an story you could use if this is the case, something I think would help out a good bit.

Bwuh? No, you definitely have the wrong poster in mind. Casper is a man, and there is absolutely no rape in this plot at all, not even the threat of it.

Is it possible to look at the before and after? What I mean is traumatic events such as this change people. Have any of you meet people who over compensate for a weakness? What I mean is this. Someone went through a traumatic event and now has this constant need to put up a very strong macho appearance in an effort to not appear vulnerable, way over the top, more of what someone thinks is macho. Vincent can still be stubborn but in a different way, such as stubborn about having the need to control his surroundings in an effort to make sure that it never happens again. It's kinda about making it so over the top that it's not a believable way to keep himself safe. At the same time it showed just how stubborn he is about something that doesn't work and is pointless.

That would make sense. Though most of the time Vincent lives in an environment positively fraught with danger (he spends nine months of the year teaching in a boarding school full of supernatural creatures, in the middle of a forest filled with MORE supernatural creatures, many of which want to harm the school's students and professors as often as possible), the torture he has just lived through probably hits a lot closer to home, as it is human beings who committed those atrocities against him and Casper, not Fae or vampires or anything of the sort.

Couldn't that also be called character progression or regression as the case may be. I cannot imagine a character being troutrued and able to fight back, I would think it would be way to draining both physically and emotionally.

Exactly.

I see two possiblilities. One seperate and stress his fear of being unable to control what happened and his stubborness. What I mean is this. In the dream as with what happened he has no control so you can stress this lack of control. Have him relive the events but in a twisted way. For instance in the dream show how he views his lack of control. Like any questions he is asked make them have no right answer, so even if right, he still gets tortured, or no matter what he does he cannot control what happens to him. Meanwhile in the waking world he is stubborn about controlling unimportant things, anything really. It could even be a need to prove to himself that no one can hurt him again.

Second. Again have him relive things but in a twisted way by having him fight with stubborn persistence in the dream where even if he beats the crap out of his torturer he still gets tortured. Again to show that he now views himself without power.

The point with changing what actually happened and what happens in the dream is to show how he views what happened.

I'll think about that. He may change his views as the plot goes on and he begins to recover (slowly) from this.

Traumatic events bring out fears that didn't exist before, or were never life controlling. So he can react with his pre-established norms (stubborn) to new problems/fears (being powerless) that change how he acts (a need to control the external to give him power) with those established norms (stubborn).
Hope that helps.

It does help. Thanks a lot for your input.

 

[Max Cooper]

Well PTSD often renders tough men to utter tears and break downs. Its not about how tough he is. Many people with PTSD can't sleep very well. They tend to see the faces of dead people in the dark corners of the room. They have unexplained panic attacks. So, in my opinion, being a soldier and having dealt with many men with PTSD don't try to make him look invincible, its actually less believable.

 

[Ireth]

Oh, I have no intention of making him invincible, though he'll probably try to make himself look that way. Vincent is an actor, and he won't want others to see him as vulnerable, except probably his close friends and family, and obviously Casper, who suffered the exact same horrors as Vincent did.

 

[ascanius]

Sorry about the mix up Ireth, I really should have gotten some sleep. Sorry.

Well PTSD often renders tough men to utter tears and break downs. Its not about how tough he is. Many people with PTSD can't sleep very well. They tend to see the faces of dead people in the dark corners of the room. They have unexplained panic attacks. So, in my opinion, being a soldier and having dealt with many men with PTSD don't try to make him look invincible, its actually less believable.

That's a good point about how it affects men. I drew similarities between rape and torture in that power and control are taken away and pain is inflicted. Thats why I mentioned the whole control thing and being powerless and going over the top with trying to appear tough, though the person I am thinking of is a woman. So their may be a difference between the symptoms for male and female. It sounds like you dealt with more battle field PTSD than the type I have experience with. Do you think there would be a control issue for a male in the situation Ireth mentioned? I'm kinda extrapolating but I think that both our perspectives could give Ireth the best answer. But you are right they cannot sleep very well, and they do have flashbacks, and panic attacks.

 

[SeverinR]

The "typical" hero doesn't show fear, they show attitude, anger, they kill, fight etc.

The real hero has to sleep at night, he will have fear, he will have overwhelming emotion until he deals with it. Killing or fighting will not help PTSD, and probably make it worse.

Do you want a comic book hero or a real hero. I think with real heros coming home with PTSD, the more realism we can write or show will help others realize, humans are not comic book heros.

Read up on PTSD, read the descriptions of people that have it. Make your character real.
PTSD kills, this belief that real men don't have fears or anxiety feeds into the belief that a hero is weak because he has them.
I remember on the news(when I was young), hearing Vietnam vets killing themselves or others in a rage. We are alot better with our vets today, but there is still room to improve.

PTSD is a IED of pent up emotions waiting for the trigger, if triggered it will destroy the person and maybe his/her loved ones, or total strangers.
We are long passed the days of heros in white hats never doing anything wrong, always super human, and above all emotions,
larger then life. We need to show people what real heros deal with. That a civilized person taking a life for any reason, changes that person for ever, that even going into a hostile area, changes you for ever.

Sorry, PTSD is a topic near to me. I work at a VA hospital.

 

[gavintonks]

one of my brothers friends was being haunted by nightmares of things they may or may not have done in the bush war in Rhodesia
1 - the nightmare is active while they are awake and recall vivid detail
2 - they see themselves in the nightmare and describe the detail vividly from a 3rd person perspective of seeing themselves sin the situation experiencing what they do not wish to see or acknowledge
3 - the descriptive is a very impersonal emotionless person describing something that rips your heart out

 

[Lorna]

I don't see the problem with having Vincent frightened and vulnerable and terrified he is going to lose his life at all. After all stubborn characters are human and I think seeing somebody so characteristically stubborn reduced to that state will add to pathos. To do otherwise would be completely unrealistic and wouldn't do justice to what he had been through.
If it's any help I looked a bit into PTSD when I was writing one of my drafts for when one of my characters was tortured for three days. He's also a stubborn character, had nightmares and flashbacks, the experience put his conception of humanity, reality and self worth into question. He totally broke down and was irrevocably changed by the event. It took a good many pages for him to find the inner strength to go back out into the world and continue.
I think any type of character suffering imprisonment / torture for 3 weeks would come out a screaming mess.

 

[Ireth]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. This will come in handy.

 

[Robert Donnell]

As a Combat Vet, I can tell you that PTSD is real, but it is totally different from what you read. Heightened startle reaction: true. Anger: true, I have never had a combat related flashback but those are real too, the only one I ever had was a replay of something pleasant.