Question about Goats and Religion.

[Naruzeldamaster]

So, my understanding of this tie of Goats to Christian religion.
There's a very particular Goat that is often the 'representation' of satan.
Usually a pitch black goat with red eyes and extremely long legs (and sometimes very obvious 'demon' horns in place of goat horns) I think?

In my mind, otherwise a goat is just a goat. I think is the difference?

The thing that prompted this question is I was watching a video where someone was analyzing the 'design influence' of a demon girl.
They brought up this inspiration, which could be the case? But said demon girl is from a fictional world and could literally be anything.

Also my parents might not agree with this (They're also Christian) but I'm in the camp that a fictional character might be inspired by something, but it doesn't make them that thing unless the context is there. Though it certainly doesn't help this anime girl's case that she's a 'demon' girl, we know next to nothing about her yet. The game she's featured in isn't even out yet.

 

[pmmg]

Yeah...if we come across a strange alien race and they look like goats, well that does not make them demons. But...if the author is calling them 'demon girl', I mean... its pretty clear what they wish me to bring into it.

Maybe they want to turn it on its head and say...no, but shes a good demon hellion who looks like Baphomet. Um....gold star for effort, but no.

Goats are goats if you just want to write them that way.


Oddly, all of my books feature a scene where something bad happens to goats. I wish I could say it was a theme or symbolic, but its not, and I can't find one so as to embellish it. They are just goats in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Yeah...if we come across a strange alien race and they look like goats, well that does not make them demons. But...if the author is calling them 'demon girl', I mean... its pretty clear what they wish me to bring into it.

That's a fair point, interestingly the game is made by a Japanese company. Though they have made games about 'demons' in general. I think being inspired by a thing is fine, but like, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then maybe it is a duck. BUT I'm willing to see what the game lore has in store for this character before I judge.

Maybe they want to turn it on its head and say...no, but shes a good demon hellion who looks like Baphomet. Um....gold star for effort, but no.

Goats are goats if you just want to write them that way.

I mean they could also be a play on the 'fallen angel' where they're secretly a good person but they did something forbidden and were 'punished'
But yeah, a demon character is a demon. Though why a Japanese developer made a character inspired by a religion foreign to them is a curious choice.

That being said, I'm curious to know more of this character and how they fit into the world. A Demon's a Demon but we barely even know her name. lol

The other game made by these devs is about a demon (though not in the Christian sense, just a 'demon' period, that demon is a Succubus) too. So it tracks I guess?

Oddly, all of my books feature a scene where something bad happens to goats. I wish I could say it was a theme or symbolic, but its not, and I can't find one so as to embellish it. They are just goats in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If I ever have proper Demons in my stories I'm just going to write them as 'residents of the 'bad' place' sort and not spesifically Christian demons.
I tend to like that depiction of demons as it gives the author more freedom personality wise. I tend to write stories with mixes of a lot of different cultures so having the 'after life' be explicitly Christian feels weird narratively.

 

[Queshire]

What's the game?

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

What's the game?

Asking for a friend? XD
The Game name is Yun Yun something (I don't know the full name in English) There's two games by that dev and they both have that in the title.
It's a Game where your goal is to out drink an alcoholic demon girl who's obsessive about stuff.
A lot of people are excited about the 'waifu' aspect (I hate that term lol) of her but I'm more curious about the actual lore haha.
Asked my friend and the two english names that are circulating right now are.
Drunken Goddess Reflux / Pukey Goddess Shot Trick.
No OFFICIAL English name yet though. These are just translations.

 

[Queshire]

No...? You just never said what the name of the game was in your post and I can't really give input if I don't know the context.

Is this the game?

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

No...? You just never said what the name of the game was in your post and I can't really give input if I don't know the context.

Is this the game?

That's the game I thought it was called yeah.
It's a different game from that dev (They only have two I think)
Here's the trailer:

Spoiler: Pukey Goddess Shot Trick

 

[Mad Swede]

So, my understanding of this tie of Goats to Christian religion.
There's a very particular Goat that is often the 'representation' of satan.
Usually a pitch black goat with red eyes and extremely long legs (and sometimes very obvious 'demon' horns in place of goat horns) I think?

In my mind, otherwise a goat is just a goat. I think is the difference?

The thing that prompted this question is I was watching a video where someone was analyzing the 'design influence' of a demon girl.
They brought up this inspiration, which could be the case? But said demon girl is from a fictional world and could literally be anything.

Also my parents might not agree with this (They're also Christian) but I'm in the camp that a fictional character might be inspired by something, but it doesn't make them that thing unless the context is there. Though it certainly doesn't help this anime girl's case that she's a 'demon' girl, we know next to nothing about her yet. The game she's featured in isn't even out yet.

This is something which is incredibly specific to country and region so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what was said in that video.

 

[Queshire]

Oh! Was that Demondice doing the theme song? I love her work.

Looking at the video I think she's supposed to be Bacchus. At least that name flashes across the screen for a brief moment and it'd fit the whole drinking thing.

Still, eh, goat horns, goat ears, the color scheme, evidently having the player character stab their own hand. It's all very demon themed and there is that connection between the devil & goats as seen in baphomet. I'm sure they're drawing on that imagery.

It doesn't actually mean anything though. Remember, in Japan Christianity is just that cool foreign mythology just like Japanese mythology would be to us in the states.

I've got devils, demons and angels in my setting though they're in there more as a reference to how D&D has them and to play around with the tropes.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Oh! Was that Demondice doing the theme song? I love her work.

Looking at the video I think she's supposed to be Bacchus. At least that name flashes across the screen for a brief moment and it'd fit the whole drinking thing.

Still, eh, goat horns, goat ears, the color scheme, evidently having the player character stab their own hand. It's all very demon themed and there is that connection between the devil & goats as seen in baphomet. I'm sure they're drawing on that imagery.

It doesn't actually mean anything though. Remember, in Japan Christianity is just that cool foreign mythology just like Japanese mythology would be to us in the states.

I think they're more just playing around with the imagery too. Though of course us Americans are going to go 'oooo look it's the thing, that thing, the thing we know' lol In any other instance (Like if it was made by American developers) I'd presume that it's referencing the thing directly. Japan references other mythologies and Religions a lot (Especially in anime) so this is nothing new. It was just interesting to see someone on there draw imagery from Christian religion specifically because of the uh.... 'stuff' way back when.

Either way I'm not 100% sure my parents would approve. Though I feel like God would know the devs were just playing with the imagery when designing the character/theme of the game.

I've got devils, demons and angels in my setting though they're in there more as a reference to how D&D has them and to play around with the tropes.

I handle my Demons/Angels the way Bayonetta does.
Moderately inspired by the Christian mythology, but there's other stuff thrown in too.
Depending on the culture inspiring the story I change it up. There's not really a 'hell/heaven' but a 'good/bad' place when you die. And entities live there from many cultures.

In my current story where that stuff is a thing (It's a fantasy setting) there's a 'good place' and a 'bad place' but it's not explicitly heaven/hell. (And the entities that live there come from many cultures, not just the one I believe in)The Words referring to them are spoken in a made up god language and they're not meant for living things to understand.

 

[pmmg]

Oh! Was that Demondice doing the theme song?

Thats probably not helping with the Demon connection of the game...

I can assure you, Christian's don't think Demons from another culture get a pass. Demon's are demons whether they are European or Japanese. If the Japanese were ever actually calling their creatures Demon's, they likely lifted that term from another culture who knew the meaning. Christians don't think that their belief set stops at some other nations borders.

Yokai and Oni may be seen as something less than fallen angels, but that does not mean 1) they are not, and 2) that they should properly be called demons.

Either way I'm not 100% sure my parents would approve. Though I feel like God would know the devs were just playing with the imagery when designing the character/theme of the game.

Were they? Its clear they have some type of admiration for demonic stuff. It seems harmless, but is it really?

The slow erosion of taking things less seriously playing over time creates the world the demon's would prefer. Christian things are silly and easily discarded, and demonic things are cool, fun and harmless... On and on it goes.

If I ever have proper Demons in my stories I'm just going to write them as 'residents of the 'bad' place' sort and not spesifically Christian demons.
I tend to like that depiction of demons as it gives the author more freedom personality wise.

Imma push back on this statement too. It is not more freedom. You all ready have infinite ways to write proper Christian Demon's, having another set of infinite ways is still infinity. Its just preference, but its not limiting freedom.

Also my parents might not agree with this (They're also Christian) but I'm in the camp that a fictional character might be inspired by something, but it doesn't make them that thing unless the context is there

Ya know, you talk about your parents a lot. But you sound like you have good parents. Least they care. Many don't.


Anyway....

Despite all that above...

I watched the thing twice? Where was Baphomet in it? I didn't see it.

But, I did see a lot of things I'd not want my kids to consume, depending on age and a lot of other stuff. But...you are not my kid.

Maybe this will give you and your parents something to talk about.

There is good and bad in everything.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Thats probably not helping with the Demon connection of the game...

I can assure you, Christian's don't think Demons from another culture get a pass. Demon's are demons whether they are European or Japanese. If the Japanese were ever actually calling their creatures Demon's, they likely lifted that term from another culture who knew the meaning. Christians don't think that their belief set stops at some other nations borders.

Yokai and Oni may be seen as something less than fallen angels, but that does not mean 1) they are not, and 2) that they should properly be called demons.

I don't think they get a 'pass' either but I do respect the cultural boarder between our beliefs and give them space.
I agree that a demon's a demon, but a Oni or Yokai certainly has different meaning culturally than Christian Demons. (Some Yokai aren't even 'evil' and are just spirits) I do think they're mutually exclusive.

Were they? Its clear they have some type of admiration for demonic stuff. It seems harmless, but is it really?

The slow erosion of taking things less seriously playing over time creates the world the demon's would prefer. Christian things are silly and easily discarded, and demonic things are cool, fun and harmless... On and on it goes.



Imma push back on this statement too. It is not more freedom. You all ready have infinite ways to write proper Christian Demon's, having another set of infinite ways is still infinity. Its just preference, but its not limiting freedom.

I write what's appropriate for the story.
If it's a 100% Japanese setting, I'm certainly going to use their lore and culture as the insperation.
If It's a mixed setting (Like hound and fox is set in a 'future' Earth where all governments have united.) I will 'borrow' from everywhere.
If it's a mixed setting (Like my Yokai story) but takes place in a much more fictional reality I'll come up with my own stuff inspired from everything.
Depends on the setting, depends on the characters in said setting too. Especially depends on the plot. My parents may not understand this decision but it gives me a lot to work with.

A lot of my favorite Japanese games have Christian imagery in them (Xenoblade has a ton in the first game, but it references angels and such more)

Ya know, you talk about your parents a lot. But you sound like you have good parents. Least they care. Many don't.

I talk about them because I'm more trying to puzzle out why they care as much as they do. Hopefully that makes sense.
Let it be known that I appreciate the thought though, most of the time. It's just, really confusing. Sometimes it's simply a lack of understanding, especially in video games.

The confusion often comes from them not having context. Yet when I try to explain so they have the context, in one ear and out the other. So it gets frustrating at times. I always tell younger people I chat with online who have 'gamer' parents that they're incredibly lucky and they should cherish that part of their life. Not all gamers are as lucky.

Anyway....

Despite all that above...

I watched the thing twice? Where was Baphomet in it? I didn't see it.

But, I did see a lot of things I'd not want my kids to consume, depending on age and a lot of other stuff. But...you are not my kid.

Maybe this will give you and your parents something to talk about.

There is good and bad in everything.

On that note, I was mildly curious about the game because of the actual game mechanic, and the character design. (I'm a sucker for a well designed anime girl) But SO much stuff in the game trailer does not vibe with me and 100% wouldn't vibe with my parents. I would have been fine with it if there wasn't so much of the clearly demonic ritual type stuff in it.

As a side note. Games like this are the kind of things that the 'super' Christians should be up in arms about, Pokemon is so far removed from this kind of thing lol Heck, the only 'monster' thing about Pocket Monsters is that many of them don't look like real animals, although there are a good number of them who do, they still look like clearly fictional versions of those though. (Like Ryhorn is the closest Generation 1 pokemon to a real animal)

I respect the developers for writing the story/making the game they want, takes a lot of courage to do that, but certainly not for me.

 

[Queshire]

I'd probably put myself closest to being Buddhist, though barely even that so none of this bugs me.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I'd probably put myself closest to being Buddhist, though barely even that so none of this bugs me.

It more so bugs me that it seems to be added to make the game 'edgy' and 'cool'
This thing doesn't even seem to be classified as a 'horror' game I don't think?

They have a cool character, they have a fun premise, I see no use for all the 'edgy' stuff haha.
The Yun Yun game has some references to demon stuff, but there's no actions by the player to do that stuff (as far as I saw)

 

[Queshire]

*shrug* People are people. It's a different genre, but I imagine it's fueled by the same sort of emotions that saw all the sort of devil imagery used in rock & metal music.