Reason for a child-desiring character not to have kids?

[Ravana]

One variation on the "curse" idea: he isn't sterile… but the offspring he produces are, for whatever reason, tragically unacceptable. Deformed, insane, doomed to die before tenth birthday, whatever. Which means he might have "succeeded" in producing a child multiple times in the past–all of which died early and heart-wrenching deaths; likely the mothers suffered similarly ghastly fates, dying in childbirth being the obvious one–and has learned better than to risk it again. Meaning if he wants a child, he needs to find it elsewhere.

That's the reason he can't have his own children. What I think might be missing is the reason why he wants to have a child at all. What does he hope to accomplish with a child–with any child, no matter its source? Obviously, passing on genes is out if he's reached the point he's willing to steal one. Is there something involving heritage, legacy? Does he feel he has something that can only be passed on to a child he raises? Or is he just emotionally hung up on having a child, and has not analyzed his reasons for desiring for one, nor the consequences (to himself, the child, his society)? Somewhere in those questions are probably the answers to why he chooses to try kidnapping one, rather than adopting–or marrying a widow, or any other more socially acceptable alternative. What is it about his view of "why I want a child" that puts him in the position where this is not only an acceptable method, but the only acceptable method for him?

 

[Ireth]

One variation on the "curse" idea: he isn't sterile… but the offspring he produces are, for whatever reason, tragically unacceptable. Deformed, insane, doomed to die before tenth birthday, whatever. Which means he might have "succeeded" in producing a child multiple times in the past—all of which died early and heart-wrenching deaths; likely the mothers suffered similarly ghastly fates, dying in childbirth being the obvious one—and has learned better than to risk it again. Meaning if he wants a child, he needs to find it elsewhere.

That is a fascinating idea. Having the mothers of his children die in childbirth would provide a really weird irony to the story -- Ariel's mother suffered the same fate, which was canon since the early days of her and Vincent's existence as RP characters, long before I ever came up with the idea for this particular story. Taking the child from a dead mother might honestly turn him off if his own children had similar misfortune. I'll have to think about that some more.

That's the reason he can't have his own children. What I think might be missing is the reason why he wants to have a child at all. What does he hope to accomplish with a child—with any child, no matter its source? Obviously, passing on genes is out if he's reached the point he's willing to steal one. Is there something involving heritage, legacy? Does he feel he has something that can only be passed on to a child he raises? Or is he just emotionally hung up on having a child, and has not analyzed his reasons for desiring for one, nor the consequences (to himself, the child, his society)? Somewhere in those questions are probably the answers to why he chooses to try kidnapping one, rather than adopting—or marrying a widow, or any other more socially acceptable alternative. What is it about his view of "why I want a child" that puts him in the position where this is not only an acceptable method, but the only acceptable method for him?

More excellent questions! At this point I think he's just hung up on the idea of having a child. Opting for kidnapping versus adopting is a non-issue in his mind, because to the Fae they mean the exact same thing, and that is adoption. As for marrying a widow, do you mean a Fae widow or a human one? I see him as the type to find a mate and stick with her -- said mate being the princess he had sex with in the first place which led to them both being cursed. The story just wouldn't work any other way if he were to move on to someone else; Loegaire's feelings for the princess, and his actions and motivations because of it, are the backbone of the plot of the second book in the duology. The stuff with the Hawk family is just consequences of that.

 

[Ravana]

More excellent questions!

Thank you.

At this point I think he's just hung up on the idea of having a child. Opting for kidnapping versus adopting is a non-issue in his mind, because to the Fae they mean the exact same thing, and that is adoption. As for marrying a widow, do you mean a Fae widow or a human one?

One with a small child. You tell me: it's your culture.

I see him as the type to find a mate and stick with her -- said mate being the princess he had sex with in the first place which led to them both being cursed. The story just wouldn't work any other way if he were to move on to someone else; Loegaire's feelings for the princess, and his actions and motivations because of it, are the backbone of the plot of the second book in the duology.

Well, he could have a long history of trying to move on and failing… which would also allow him to produce those doomed offspring in the meantime. Of course, if all the women he tried with ended up dying horribly as a result, that would tend to reinforce the sense of failure, too. Each new failure brings its own freight of guilt, in addition to renewing the old guilt surrounding his one true love. Which might explain why he doesn't take up with the nice single mom down the street: he's afraid he will sire a child on her. With a history like that, he's probably sworn off sex altogether. (Yeah: we'll see how long that works for him.…)

By the way, something along these lines could also answer your question of "why wait until the 21st century?" Perhaps he hasn't been "waiting" as such. Perhaps his most recent attempt at parenthood gave the appearance of being successful, of the curse finally having waned… but in fact it just took longer than usual to catch up: decades or more instead of days or years. The devastating despair of suffering yet another loss after his hopes had been lifted would be more than enough to provide an emotional backdrop for his otherwise uncharacteristic kidnapping attempt… "temporary insanity," or whatever passes for such among the Fae.

How does the Fae tendency to not have much of a sense of family interact with their parenting? That is, are nuclear families even the norm for them? Do they marry at all? If two-parent households are uncommon, or at least no more common than one-parent ones, it might never occur to him to seek out a single mother (or, if you like, father). How does this impact their society in general? The adult populace can't all be betraying each other all the time, not in ways that would routinely lead to bloodshed, in any event. Not and still have a society… which maybe they don't, in a sense we'd recognize: maybe most of them are loners.

 

[Ireth]

Well, he could have a long history of trying to move on and failing… which would also allow him to produce those doomed offspring in the meantime. Of course, if all the women he tried with ended up dying horribly as a result, that would tend to reinforce the sense of failure, too. Each new failure brings its own freight of guilt, in addition to renewing the old guilt surrounding his one true love. Which might explain why he doesn't take up with the nice single mom down the street: he's afraid he will sire a child on her. With a history like that, he's probably sworn off sex altogether. (Yeah: we'll see how long that works for him.…)

That's possible. I might take the curse one step further, and say that it's not even sex that triggers it, it's just kissing another woman, or even thinking of her, maybe on top of something happening if he ever touches the princess again. That would be a really nasty punishment -- take his one love from him, and not even give him the chance to move on, leaving him forever pining for the one person he can't have. (What can I say, I'm cruel to my characters. XD)

By the way, something along these lines could also answer your question of "why wait until the 21st century?" Perhaps he hasn't been "waiting" as such. Perhaps his most recent attempt at parenthood gave the appearance of being successful, of the curse finally having waned… but in fact it just took longer than usual to catch up: decades or more instead of days or years. The devastating despair of suffering yet another loss after his hopes had been lifted would be more than enough to provide an emotional backdrop for his otherwise uncharacteristic kidnapping attempt… "temporary insanity," or whatever passes for such among the Fae.

That's possible too. Which makes me wonder how he'd feel after failing to take Ariel -- would he get depressed and give up entirely after so many failed tries, or would that failure only spur him on further? Yay, more stuff to think about. XD

How does the Fae tendency to not have much of a sense of family interact with their parenting? That is, are nuclear families even the norm for them? Do they marry at all? If two-parent households are uncommon, or at least no more common than one-parent ones, it might never occur to him to seek out a single mother (or, if you like, father). How does this impact their society in general? The adult populace can't all be betraying each other all the time, not in ways that would routinely lead to bloodshed, in any event. Not and still have a society… which maybe they don't, in a sense we'd recognize: maybe most of them are loners.

As always, it depends on the specific Fae. Some mate for life and raise any resulting children together; others sleep around a lot and stick with their children only for a matter of years before abandoning them, or don't even stay with their children at all. Some stay in large groups, and others are content to be totally alone.

 

[The Dark One]

If Fae have a lot of trouble breeding, homosexuality would likely be heavily frowned upon in their culture, because it would be seen as something that reduces the race's chances of survival. This doesn't mean you shouldn't do it; it just means it's a less likely option. I'd probably go with A. Maybe he's tried to have children before but he can rarely get a female Fae pregnant, and when he does she's always either miscarried or had a stillbirth, or the baby didn't live very long.

I think it'd be better if his attempt to kidnap Ariel was his first attempt to do such a thing. If he'd done it a bunch of times and failed, it would make him seem like some sort of harmless, inept fool.

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if my suggestions have already been made:

Briefly on Benjamin's point, surely the more taboo homosexuality was in a culture the more alluring it would be for some people (cf in the age of faith the number of people wanting to kiss Satan's arse and become witches).

On the thread generally - what if the protagonist had been told that he cannot ever procreate because his first born, if a girl (say) will be the saviour of the universe, but if a boy will be the destroyer of the universe. Hence he's overcome with the desire for a child but dares not take the risk.

Obviously, eventually, he does.

 

[Ireth]

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if my suggestions have already been made:

Briefly on Benjamin's point, surely the more taboo homosexuality was in a culture the more alluring it would be for some people (cf in the age of faith the number of people wanting to kiss Satan's arse and become witches).

On the thread generally - what if the protagonist had been told that he cannot ever procreate because his first born, if a girl (say) will be the saviour of the universe, but if a boy will be the destroyer of the universe. Hence he's overcome with the desire for a child but dares not take the risk.

Obviously, eventually, he does.

I really have no idea what stance the Fae might have on homosexuality, though I'm sure it does factor into their culture to some degree. There are some bisexual Fae in an RP tangentially related to the novels, though they are not my characters.

As to the "your child will either save or destroy the universe" idea, I've never been too keen on fantasy prophecies about saviors of the universe. It just doesn't fit with either the tone or the plot of either book, whether it's true or not. The stories are focused primarily on one human family and the Fae they interact with, not on the fate of either Faerie or Earth as a whole. Thanks for your thoughts nonetheless.

 

[The Dark One]

Saviour of the universe is shorthand for do any significant thing which might have an impact on the resolution of the plot. And it doesn't have to be a curse or a prophecy - there might be any number of ways that the protagonist might become convinced that having a child was massively risky. The whole point is the drama of choice (especially when confronted with the desires of a partner) with which you could have a lot of fun. It's multi-textured conflict already built into the plot and the story just tells itself.