Should I do another pass through my novel before self-publishing it as an eBook?

[dollyt8]

I've already done three passes through my slow-burn romantasy novel, and I have a friend who has read through it twice and helped me edit. I have not put it through a critique site or had anyone else read the whole thing (I do have another friend who just started reading and got through 8 chapters in a day. She loves it) and I did not have an "official" beta reader take a look.

My current plan is to have the eBook go live on July 1st, and I'm just wondering if what I've done so far could be considered enough due diligence for self-publishing or if I should try to get a beta reader and more feedback. For some additional context, I feel like I've learned a lot since writing it, even though I did my last pass through just a few months ago. So I probably would change some things now, but I don't have a lot of time on my hands as I have a full time job outside of my fiction writing and familial obligations. I'm not expecting to make any money off of it, though I'm working on figuring out how to market it and share it with more people. Still, it's part of a series, so I'm somewhat concerned that there will be a difference in quality between the first book and the final book. I also feel like I could have made the romantasy aspect stronger, and have done some work to learn how to write better romantasy since then. But I just don't know when I would be able to say enough is enough rather than constantly editing and re-editing the whole thing.

I would appreciate any advice from people who have gone this road before. TIA!

 

[pmmg]

All those read throughs and test readers are just to save you embarrassment from the savages. There is no set rule as to when its ready, save for… you just cant see any point in sitting on it anymore.

The more eyes on it before, the better.

For me, if i make any changes at all that necessitates another read through.

 

[dollyt8]

All those read throughs and test readers are just to save you embarrassment from the savages. There is no set rule as to when its ready, save for… you just cant see any point in sitting on it anymore.

The more eyes on it before, the better.

For me, if i make any changes at all that necessitates another read through.

Thanks for your input! I think I've decided to just go through the whole thing again. I made the mistake of re-reading the first chapter, and there are some pretty significant issues I didn't realize were in there. So it needs work for sure!

 

[pmmg]

Thanks for your input! I think I've decided to just go through the whole thing again. I made the mistake of re-reading the first chapter, and there are some pretty significant issues I didn't realize were in there. So it needs work for sure!

The quest for perfection never ends.

One thing I found is, when I think a book is ready, and I get a reader, right at that moment when I am handing it over, my brain flash forwards over all the parts I feel could be better. Almost like its life flashing before my eyes kind of moment...sometimes, I know...it wasn't ready. Sometimes, I know its good enough. Its just a personal feeling.

I would wait for others to chime in and see the comments of others who have also already published.

 

[Karlin]

I only have one published novel. I went through it multiple time, then paid to have a professional editor go over it. Updated it, actually found a publisher, and they had me rewrite part of the book.

 

[skip.knox]

Here are some things to consider. Pick and choose as you wish.

I know you said you are not expecting to make money, but I presume you are hoping to have someone read it once published. So marketing is still something to, well, consider. And to consider well. With that in mind, you will want to allow more time than a month for prep work. Where will you advertise? If you are thinking of using any of the scores of online services, they typically have a lead time of weeks and months. Then there's the business of writing copy for each place where you intend to promote your work. It is, as they say, non-trivial.

As for reading through again, I suggest thinking about separate tasks. One pass would be for continuity. One pass for pacing and transitions. One pass for proofreading, including things like repeated words, extra spaces, and so on. There's more to proofing than just spelling and grammar. When making these passes, consider having the book read aloud. The quality of the voice is not important; I've found the more robotic and awkward the voice, the more likely I am to notice inconsistencies. A natural narrator, otoh, can be a great help in noticing tone and pacing.

Then there's production. By that I mean having a cover (you did hire an artist, right?), writing the back-cover copy, seeing to front and back matter, making sure the table of contents works and is accurate, allowing time to request, receive, and review an author copy (yes, yet another pass).

You may want to reconsider your July timeline. <g>

 

[Malik]

Three passes?

Oh, my sweet summer child.

I rewrite cover to cover, no edits, just retyping from the last manuscript, 4-5 times. Then it goes to a dev editor, then a line editor (in my case the same person but I pay her twice), then a copy editor, then beta readers, and then anything I change after beta goes back through copyediting, then multiple proofreading passes from different proofreaders, and then a hundred spot-checks during formatting. It's literally a year--in the case of my last book, three years, because every structural or factual change had to be approved by the Pentagon--between "final draft" and "ready for release."

As for making any money off it, well, none of us expect to. But what's really important is that if you keep at it, someday you're going to produce a book that moves big numbers. When you do, A.) You won't know it until you wake up to a gazillion emails; and B.) Some people who bought it are going to buy everything you've ever written, and you absolutely DO NOT want your early work to be a bunch of amateur crap because it will keep them from buying your next book--they'll think you got lucky with the one that hit big. Things move so fast in this industry, especially as an indie, that you won't have time to go back and do edits on your backlist. Big success lasts a few weeks. Tops. You need to be in a position to capitalize on it if you want your eventual success to snowball.

From the minute you decide to publish--even self-publishing--you need to have your best foot forward. Always. Your writing, your interviews, your blog, your social media, your in-person presentations at fantasy cons or bookstores, whatever. Take the time. Spend the money. Get it right.

My bona fides: I have 2 books out, both indie. They've sold over 25,000 copies between them and received mainstream critical acclaim. It's possible that I had the most successful indie fantasy debut novel in history; by many accounts from the people who keep track of these kinds of things, I almost certainly did at the time. What I told you above is a huge part of how I did it. Those numbers helped me land an A-list film deal for my third novel (forthcoming) a full year before its release. I don't know that any other indie fantasy author has managed to pull that off, either. What I told you above isn't what other indies do--and advocating for it has gotten me run out of some indie author boards and writing groups--but damn if it's not working.

 

[Mad Swede]

Ah, the starry eyed optimism of a hopeful author.

First, I've got a publishing contract so what I'm going to say is informed by that. So far that contract has resulted in three novels and a collection of short stories here in the Nordic market. Sales are now over 80,000 copies in both printed books and e-books. I've even got some good reviews from the critics.

Malik has already said it, but I'll say it again. It takes time to get a book ready for publication. Even with a publishing contract it takes 12-18 months before the book goes for printing and e-book formatting. Most of that time is spent on editing: developmental editing, line editing and copy editing. The book goes backwards and forwards between you and the editor concerned, until you're both happy. It isn't a one pass exercise, far from it. Then the proofreading starts. Sorting out the cover happens in parallell with editing, as does planning how the book will be marketed.

So you want to publish as an independent? As Malik implied, get an editor. There's no real way around this, you will need competent professional help to get the structure and pacing right. Quality matters, especially in a market where almost anyone can self-publish a text with a few mouse clicks. Anyone who tells you that you don't need en editor is quite frankly not competent to advise you. (Yes, I'm well aware that a number of people here are going to react strongly to that statement.)

The cover matters too. It's there to draw the reader in so that they pick the book up and start to read a page or two. You'll need a cover artist, preferably someone who has produced cover designs for others. Don't stint on this, the message you convey with your cover matters. You need to think about how it relates to your book and the themes in your book.

Marketing is all about where to place the book and then publicising this. That depends on sales of other, similar books, so you'll need to do some research and a few analyses. Then you need to get the book reviewed, which may mean getting some copies printed and sent out to reviewers. Marketing also means being available for interviews, being prepared to sign books for readers, attending conventions and book fairs etc. You may want a web page (which needs keeping up to date) and you'll want to reply to any e-mails you get. This takes time - your spare time.

As an independent you do all this yourself, it costs quite a bit of money and it takes a lot of time. Then the book is out there and you hope it sells. It takes quite a while before you sell enough to make any money at all (with or without a publishing contract) and unless you really hit the best seller list (and do so several times) you'll never be able to live on your writing.

As for your aim of 1st July? Well, maybe 1st July 2026.

 

[dollyt8]

I only have one published novel. I went through it multiple time, then paid to have a professional editor go over it. Updated it, actually found a publisher, and they had me rewrite part of the book.

Here are some things to consider. Pick and choose as you wish.

I know you said you are not expecting to make money, but I presume you are hoping to have someone read it once published. So marketing is still something to, well, consider. And to consider well. With that in mind, you will want to allow more time than a month for prep work. Where will you advertise? If you are thinking of using any of the scores of online services, they typically have a lead time of weeks and months. Then there's the business of writing copy for each place where you intend to promote your work. It is, as they say, non-trivial.

As for reading through again, I suggest thinking about separate tasks. One pass would be for continuity. One pass for pacing and transitions. One pass for proofreading, including things like repeated words, extra spaces, and so on. There's more to proofing than just spelling and grammar. When making these passes, consider having the book read aloud. The quality of the voice is not important; I've found the more robotic and awkward the voice, the more likely I am to notice inconsistencies. A natural narrator, otoh, can be a great help in noticing tone and pacing.

Then there's production. By that I mean having a cover (you did hire an artist, right?), writing the back-cover copy, seeing to front and back matter, making sure the table of contents works and is accurate, allowing time to request, receive, and review an author copy (yes, yet another pass).

You may want to reconsider your July timeline. <g>

Three passes?

Oh, my sweet summer child.

I rewrite cover to cover, no edits, just retyping from the last manuscript, 4-5 times. Then it goes to a dev editor, then a line editor (in my case the same person but I pay her twice), then a copy editor, then beta readers, and then anything I change after beta goes back through copyediting, then multiple proofreading passes from different proofreaders, and then a hundred spot-checks during formatting. It's literally a year--in the case of my last book, three years, because every structural or factual change had to be approved by the Pentagon--between "final draft" and "ready for release."

As for making any money off it, well, none of us expect to. But what's really important is that if you keep at it, someday you're going to produce a book that moves big numbers. When you do, A.) You won't know it until you wake up to a gazillion emails; and B.) Some people who bought it are going to buy everything you've ever written, and you absolutely DO NOT want your early work to be a bunch of amateur crap because it will keep them from buying your next book--they'll think you got lucky with the one that hit big. Things move so fast in this industry, especially as an indie, that you won't have time to go back and do edits on your backlist. Big success lasts a few weeks. Tops. You need to be in a position to capitalize on it if you want your eventual success to snowball.

From the minute you decide to publish--even self-publishing--you need to have your best foot forward. Always. Your writing, your interviews, your blog, your social media, your in-person presentations at fantasy cons or bookstores, whatever. Take the time. Spend the money. Get it right.

My bona fides: I have 2 books out, both indie. They've sold over 25,000 copies between them and received mainstream critical acclaim. It's possible that I had the most successful indie fantasy debut novel in history; by many accounts from the people who keep track of these kinds of things, I almost certainly did at the time. What I told you above is a huge part of how I did it. Those numbers helped me land an A-list film deal for my third novel (forthcoming) a full year before its release. I don't know that any other indie fantasy author has managed to pull that off, either. What I told you above isn't what other indies do--and advocating for it has gotten me run out of some indie author boards and writing groups--but damn if it's not working.

Ah, the starry eyed optimism of a hopeful author.

First, I've got a publishing contract so what I'm going to say is informed by that. So far that contract has resulted in three novels and a collection of short stories here in the Nordic market. Sales are now over 80,000 copies in both printed books and e-books. I've even got some good reviews from the critics.

Malik has already said it, but I'll say it again. It takes time to get a book ready for publication. Even with a publishing contract it takes 12-18 months before the book goes for printing and e-book formatting. Most of that time is spent on editing: developmental editing, line editing and copy editing. The book goes backwards and forwards between you and the editor concerned, until you're both happy. It isn't a one pass exercise, far from it. Then the proofreading starts. Sorting out the cover happens in parallell with editing, as does planning how the book will be marketed.

So you want to publish as an independent? As Malik implied, get an editor. There's no real way around this, you will need competent professional help to get the structure and pacing right. Quality matters, especially in a market where almost anyone can self-publish a text with a few mouse clicks. Anyone who tells you that you don't need en editor is quite frankly not competent to advise you. (Yes, I'm well aware that a number of people here are going to react strongly to that statement.)

The cover matters too. It's there to draw the reader in so that they pick the book up and start to read a page or two. You'll need a cover artist, preferably someone who has produced cover designs for others. Don't stint on this, the message you convey with your cover matters. You need to think about how it relates to your book and the themes in your book.

Marketing is all about where to place the book and then publicising this. That depends on sales of other, similar books, so you'll need to do some research and a few analyses. Then you need to get the book reviewed, which may mean getting some copies printed and sent out to reviewers. Marketing also means being available for interviews, being prepared to sign books for readers, attending conventions and book fairs etc. You may want a web page (which needs keeping up to date) and you'll want to reply to any e-mails you get. This takes time - your spare time.

As an independent you do all this yourself, it costs quite a bit of money and it takes a lot of time. Then the book is out there and you hope it sells. It takes quite a while before you sell enough to make any money at all (with or without a publishing contract) and unless you really hit the best seller list (and do so several times) you'll never be able to live on your writing.

As for your aim of 1st July? Well, maybe 1st July 2026.

I wrote a really nice, long, thought-out reply, but then it started getting too ranty, so here's the much more basic version.

Thank you all for your responses! I'm really happy for those of you who have had success, and you've clearly worked insanely hard. I don't have the self-confidence to imagine that anything I write would be able to achieve similar results.

I'm at a place in my life where the kind of publishing that is being envisioned here is completely out of my reach. The budget for my book, including cover design (I did hire an artist) and minimal marketing, which I already have a plan for, is $300. So I won't be getting it professionally edited for that rate, nor will I have a major marketing campaign. I can't justify spending a bunch more money right now; my day job is fairly precarious, I don't have much in savings, and I'm not going to make enough money off of my fiction writing any time soon to be worth the expense. I've already spent money on the website and spent the past year and a half trying and failing to build an audience across various social channels, mostly with crickets (or bots) as a response. It seems like I should know when not to throw good money after bad.

I'm a professional content writer, so at the very least I have a good grasp of proofreading and grammar; not that it's even close to having an external professional read through it, but it will have to do given my financial situation. Also, it's not the first time the book will have been published. It's already available for free on a dedicated website; it's only the eBook release that is coming out in July, plus I hope to serialize it on Royal Road and Inkitt. Will it hurt my future efforts? I don't know, but I'm going to keep working, slowly, steadily, and very cheaply

I am, however, reading through the whole novel again to edit it ahead of the eBook release date, and listening to it with a screen reader as well, so thanks for the suggestions and again for your detailed replies! It's great to hear that someone is having success despite how difficult the whole process typically is.

 

[skip.knox]

I think I'm in a similar position, though I'm retired now and have more like a $3000 budget than a $300 one. No professional editor for me either, though I've tried twice with less than satisfactory results. Very few authors, I've found, talk about how difficult it is to find a good editor (good here defined as someone who spots stuff I don't). It's not only expensive in cash money, it's time consuming both in the initial hunt and in working in their timetable with my own. I found the costs in time and pressure (got to have it editor-ready by June!) were greater than the financial costs and not worth the aggravation.

But I'm not looking to make money. After four novels, I *know* I'm not going to make money. I do, however, hope to have people read what I've written. And that means marketing, and I've not found anyone who speaks to the difference (if any) between marketing for readers and marketing for money. So pretty much all the advice regarding advertising applies, though you (and I) are free to pick and choose from the wide and varied menus.

It's worth adding that once the book is published, you aren't done with it. There's promoting it after publication, too. And you'll probably have to write new copy--this one at 300 words, that one at 500, this other allows only 100. And so on. Not to mention figuring out how to answer the question "what's your book about" without waving your arms or mumbling.

Lastly (for now), you might give a few moments' thought to what "successful" means to you for this book. A single sale? Ten? Or maybe it's seeing a review of your book. Conversely, and this one took me a while to see, think about what failure looks like. I say this because if I decide that success means selling a book a month, I've just defined failure as being anything short of that. And maybe I'm not happy with that definition. I set my bar satisfyingly low: failure is no readers at all. So long as I get any sort of evidence that *someone* read the book, then that slim, fleeting moment justifies all the hundreds of hours that led up to it. Of course, the way it actually works is, if I have one reader, then I begin to hope for two. That's how that goes.

Anyway, consider all the above as my long-winded way of encouraging you to consider time spent as important as money spent. And don't forget to post when you publish!

 

[Prince of Spires]

Anyone who tells you that you don't need en editor is quite frankly not competent to advise you. (Yes, I'm well aware that a number of people here are going to react strongly to that statement.)

This is elitist, unhelpful and wrong.

Yes, a good editor helps make a book better. However, a good editor will also set you back anything from $1.000 upwards per round of editing. With no guaranteed returns. Even an amazing book doesn't get guaranteed sales. With a combination of developmental editing, line editing and copy editing, you could easily be looking at an $5.000+ investment, even running up to $19.000 if you go all out. For a debut novel that means you need to sell between 2.500 and 15.000 (depending on if you price your book $0.99 or $2.99), which puts that book in probably the top 1% of all books published on Amazon in a year, especially debuts.

Claiming that an indie author needs to take such a gamble (especially if they can't afford it) for any chance of succes is damaging in all sorts of ways.

There are an infinite number of ways to succeed as an indie author. Any absolutist advice that you always must do something (other than write) is wrong and should only be taken as "this is how I do it and it works for me. Consider trying it to see if it works for you."

Just to give 2 counter examples, I know for a fact that one of the SPFBO 9 semi-finalists didn't use an editor at any stage. And it's a damn good book. Better than many books that were worked on by editors. It helps that the author is a great beta-reader, who thinks about books much like an editor would (though she isn't one). But it just shows that you can do it just fine without an editor.

And then there's Dean Wesley Smith, who has probably sold more books than everyone on the forum combined and worked on some of the biggest IP's out there (think Star Trek and X-Men big). And he pretty much advocates the exact opposite of you, which is, never edit anything (other than fixing spelling / grammar issues) if you can't help it and just release your novel. His belief is that over-writing or endlessly editing a novel tends to diminish its quality.

Now, I don't completely agree with him either. I think for plenty of beginning writers getting feedback and processing that is essential in becoming a better writer. And editors are one possible approach to that. But that doesn't mean that you must always have one, and that anyone who disagrees with that is incompetent.

With that said, I'll add some of my own ideas for the OP. Start with figuring out how much money you can waste on this writing thing and work with that. And waste is the important word here. Don't count on ever making it back. The average author makes something like $500 per year from their books, and that includes best selling authors... If you have no money to spare, then don't even think about getting a professional editor. Don't wory, plenty of indie authors don't and they do just fine without one.

Getting feedback will help you improve, but you can do that with beta readers as much as with paid editors. And they're either much cheaper (as in more like $25) or free. The main way to find them is to swap beta reads with other authors. They read for you if you read for them, that sort of thing. Just be aware that it takes time to find a few of them, time to read their stuff, and time to receive and process their feedback.

Another thing is that while editing a book will help you improve, if you are just starting out actually writing the next book will probably help you improve more and faster. To become a good writer, you need to write a lot of words and try different things. And the best way to get there in the beginning is to just write a lot.

of course, as with everything, there is a case of diminishing returns. At some point, you need outside input to improve, just because it's hard to tell some of your own mistakes.

Diminishing returns also applies to your book by the way. At some point, improving the book will take an exponentially bigger amount of work. From draft 1 to draft 2, you should see a relatively big improvement. From draft 10 to draft 11 not so much. Yes, rewriting from scratch like Malik did will probably make your book a lot better. And it's the effort you need to go from good to great to perfect (though I'm guessing Malik probably still finds stuff he wished he'd improved....).

However, if you're just aiming for good, then that's wasted effort. You could probably write 3 - 5 books in the same amount of time. Each would probably be worse, but maybe that's not your goal.

So besides finding your budget, also determine your level of perfection. And with that level determined, work towards that. And remember that perfect is the enemy of finished. At some point, call the book good enough and move on. Will it win awards? Probably not. But it doesn't have to to be a good read or for you to be proud of it.

This all isn't to say that editors are never worth it. Getting professional feedback is very valuable. Good ones know what needs improving in a book and can point out issues you have. And it can help take a book up a notch, going from good to great. However, it might also just take a book from bad to just readable or from just readable to average. So invest in an editor if you have the funds and want that kind of professional feedback.

 

[Mad Swede]

I wrote a really nice, long, thought-out reply, but then it started getting too ranty, so here's the much more basic version.

Thank you all for your responses! I'm really happy for those of you who have had success, and you've clearly worked insanely hard. I don't have the self-confidence to imagine that anything I write would be able to achieve similar results.

I'm at a place in my life where the kind of publishing that is being envisioned here is completely out of my reach. The budget for my book, including cover design (I did hire an artist) and minimal marketing, which I already have a plan for, is $300. So I won't be getting it professionally edited for that rate, nor will I have a major marketing campaign. I can't justify spending a bunch more money right now; my day job is fairly precarious, I don't have much in savings, and I'm not going to make enough money off of my fiction writing any time soon to be worth the expense. I've already spent money on the website and spent the past year and a half trying and failing to build an audience across various social channels, mostly with crickets (or bots) as a response. It seems like I should know when not to throw good money after bad.

I'm a professional content writer, so at the very least I have a good grasp of proofreading and grammar; not that it's even close to having an external professional read through it, but it will have to do given my financial situation. Also, it's not the first time the book will have been published. It's already available for free on a dedicated website; it's only the eBook release that is coming out in July, plus I hope to serialize it on Royal Road and Inkitt. Will it hurt my future efforts? I don't know, but I'm going to keep working, slowly, steadily, and very cheaply

I am, however, reading through the whole novel again to edit it ahead of the eBook release date, and listening to it with a screen reader as well, so thanks for the suggestions and again for your detailed replies! It's great to hear that someone is having success despite how difficult the whole process typically is.

Well dollyt8, if you can't afford to use an editor then my advice is to put that first book aside and write the rest of your series. Write a few short stories too, maybe even with some of the same cast and setting. When you've done that, go back to the first book and read it again. Then read the rest of the books and stories in order. You'll see what needs improving in each of them, both as individual books and as a series. Then you can fix the faults and get them all out there. It's all too easy to rush the first book out, and it's much much harder to take it back and fix things later. As Malik says, there's no going back to sort out those first few stories if you get a hit on your hands, so it's better to get it fixed first. You never know, you might end up a best selling author and then you won't want too many embarassing first efforts lying around. (I've burnt my first unpublished stories, to make sure no-one ever reads them.)

For a cautionary tale, look up The Eye of Argon by Jim Theis. Poor Jim got so much **** for his first published story (written when he was 15, published when he was 16) that he never wrote fiction again. Much of that **** came from critics and authors who should have known much better. Those who have read Jim's later journalism know that we may have lost out on a good writer, all because he didn't get the help and support he needed before that first story went out.

 

[pmmg]

Well...gonna say, I felt a few of the posts above were kind of talking down to our sweet Dolly. She deserves better.

Rather than dwell, I will relate my own experience and expectation.

So...first, I have a cover artist. They are not as communicative as I would like, but I dont care if they get the job done. They do worry me, cause I never know if the work in in progress, near completion, and no schedule. I would like them to more thoroughly answer some of the questions. For them, I am expecting to pay approx $500 or more. Probably not above $1000. I like them, and want them to continue.

I had an editor last time. They were approx $1000. If felt they were not worth the money. I found it hard to assess what they had presented, did not believe they were really into fantasy, had misrepresented themselves as fantasy where really they were romantasy, and that we were not really a match. It is hard to assess, to do so, I would really need another editor to compare against, but I did not go back with them this time.

I have approached a new person to be the editor for the story. They read book 1, very much liked it, I know they share values with me, have editing chops, and I am excited to see what they can do. But...I am also on their schedule. I am not sure when they will break free. I am looking to publish in august, so time is ticking. I expect they will also be $500-1000, but I am not sure.

I will pay that this time, but if the experience is bad again, I am done with it.


Unlike some of those above, there are many ways to skin a cat, and one persons path to success is not going to be the same as another's. If you find what works for you, then keep on keeping on.

 

[dollyt8]

Lastly (for now), you might give a few moments' thought to what "successful" means to you for this book. A single sale? Ten? Or maybe it's seeing a review of your book. Conversely, and this one took me a while to see, think about what failure looks like. I say this because if I decide that success means selling a book a month, I've just defined failure as being anything short of that. And maybe I'm not happy with that definition. I set my bar satisfyingly low: failure is no readers at all. So long as I get any sort of evidence that *someone* read the book, then that slim, fleeting moment justifies all the hundreds of hours that led up to it. Of course, the way it actually works is, if I have one reader, then I begin to hope for two. That's how that goes.

Anyway, consider all the above as my long-winded way of encouraging you to consider time spent as important as money spent. And don't forget to post when you publish!

Thanks for the encouragement and advice, particularly from earlier about having my story read out loud! It's already helped me catch a few noteworth errors in the first couple chapters.

This is elitist, unhelpful and wrong.

Yes, a good editor helps make a book better. However, a good editor will also set you back anything from $1.000 upwards per round of editing. With no guaranteed returns. Even an amazing book doesn't get guaranteed sales. With a combination of developmental editing, line editing and copy editing, you could easily be looking at an $5.000+ investment, even running up to $19.000 if you go all out. For a debut novel that means you need to sell between 2.500 and 15.000 (depending on if you price your book $0.99 or $2.99), which puts that book in probably the top 1% of all books published on Amazon in a year, especially debuts.

Claiming that an indie author needs to take such a gamble (especially if they can't afford it) for any chance of succes is damaging in all sorts of ways.

There are an infinite number of ways to succeed as an indie author. Any absolutist advice that you always must do something (other than write) is wrong and should only be taken as "this is how I do it and it works for me. Consider trying it to see if it works for you."

Just to give 2 counter examples, I know for a fact that one of the SPFBO 9 semi-finalists didn't use an editor at any stage. And it's a damn good book. Better than many books that were worked on by editors. It helps that the author is a great beta-reader, who thinks about books much like an editor would (though she isn't one). But it just shows that you can do it just fine without an editor.

That's honestly a relief to hear someone say I feel like I have enough issues with my self-confidence without seeing a bunch more roadblocks in my way to actually get something out there. I've been writing for well over a decade, and this is the first novel I've ever shared, so I don't want to keep making excuses.

With that said, I'll add some of my own ideas for the OP. Start with figuring out how much money you can waste on this writing thing and work with that. And waste is the important word here. Don't count on ever making it back. The average author makes something like $500 per year from their books, and that includes best selling authors... If you have no money to spare, then don't even think about getting a professional editor. Don't wory, plenty of indie authors don't and they do just fine without one.

That's definitely the way I'm thinking about this. I know that I'm unlikely to make a lot of money on this, even if I work insanely hard on marketing, so I look at it as more of a hobby that I can spend a limited amount of funds on at the moment. So an editor isn't my next step just yet.

Getting feedback will help you improve, but you can do that with beta readers as much as with paid editors. And they're either much cheaper (as in more like $25) or free. The main way to find them is to swap beta reads with other authors. They read for you if you read for them, that sort of thing. Just be aware that it takes time to find a few of them, time to read their stuff, and time to receive and process their feedback.

Another thing is that while editing a book will help you improve, if you are just starting out actually writing the next book will probably help you improve more and faster. To become a good writer, you need to write a lot of words and try different things. And the best way to get there in the beginning is to just write a lot.

Makes sense! I've actually written a bunch of books that I haven't had the courage to share, and I've also already written the second book in the series, plus an 80k-word novel in another series, so now I'm going back and editing the first based on what I've learned by doing that, and I'll also look into finding a beta reader.

So besides finding your budget, also determine your level of perfection. And with that level determined, work towards that. And remember that perfect is the enemy of finished. At some point, call the book good enough and move on. Will it win awards? Probably not. But it doesn't have to to be a good read or for you to be proud of it.

This all isn't to say that editors are never worth it. Getting professional feedback is very valuable. Good ones know what needs improving in a book and can point out issues you have. And it can help take a book up a notch, going from good to great. However, it might also just take a book from bad to just readable or from just readable to average. So invest in an editor if you have the funds and want that kind of professional feedback.

Thank you for the encouragement and advice; I really appreciate it!

Well dollyt8, if you can't afford to use an editor then my advice is to put that first book aside and write the rest of your series. Write a few short stories too, maybe even with some of the same cast and setting. When you've done that, go back to the first book and read it again. Then read the rest of the books and stories in order. You'll see what needs improving in each of them, both as individual books and as a series. Then you can fix the faults and get them all out there. It's all too easy to rush the first book out, and it's much much harder to take it back and fix things later. As Malik says, there's no going back to sort out those first few stories if you get a hit on your hands, so it's better to get it fixed first. You never know, you might end up a best selling author and then you won't want too many embarassing first efforts lying around. (I've burnt my first unpublished stories, to make sure no-one ever reads them.)

I've written book two already and am part way through book three, plus I wrote another full-length novel in the interim. I've also written several dozen unpublished novels that will never see the light of day, not burnt, but hidden very well. So it's definitely not my first work

For a cautionary tale, look up The Eye of Argon by Jim Theis. Poor Jim got so much **** for his first published story (written when he was 15, published when he was 16) that he never wrote fiction again. Much of that **** came from critics and authors who should have known much better. Those who have read Jim's later journalism know that we may have lost out on a good writer, all because he didn't get the help and support he needed before that first story went out.

Sounds to me like the issue isn't that Jim didn't get the help and support he needed with the first story, but that the fault is with critics and authors who didn't understand that a first work won't be the same as later books. My feeling on that is that if you wait until you're a really good writer to publish, you're going to keep waiting, because you're always going to learn something new. Just my take, though!

Well...gonna say, I felt a few of the posts above were kind of talking down to our sweet Dolly. She deserves better.

That was kind of how it felt, so I really appreciate the support.

Rather than dwell, I will relate my own experience and expectation.

Thank you for the hard numbers; this was all super helpful!

Unlike some of those above, there are many ways to skin a cat, and one persons path to success is not going to be the same as another's. If you find what works for you, then keep on keeping on.

You are very kind. Thank you!

 

[Mad Swede]

That's honestly a relief to hear someone say I feel like I have enough issues with my self-confidence without seeing a bunch more roadblocks in my way to actually get something out there. I've been writing for well over a decade, and this is the first novel I've ever shared, so I don't want to keep making excuses.

It's not about making excuses, and you should never look at it that way. Once the book is out there your name and your reputation are on the line. So it is worth taking extra time to make it as good as it can be given your limits. The internet doesn't forget - and that includes our screw-ups as well as our triumphs.

That's definitely the way I'm thinking about this. I know that I'm unlikely to make a lot of money on this, even if I work insanely hard on marketing, so I look at it as more of a hobby that I can spend a limited amount of funds on at the moment. So an editor isn't my next step just yet.

Looking at your writing as a hobby is the best way of approaching it. That's what I do.

Getting the full publishing treatment is expensive, even for the publishers. There's no guarantee that any book will sell, and my editor has said that in may ways commercial publishing is a form of venture capitalism: you put up a lot of money and hope you make a profit. This is why publishers and agents are selective in what they choose to accept. It isn't about elitism, it's about making a high stakes bet that the work you choose will cover it's publication costs and then make some money.

I've written book two already and am part way through book three, plus I wrote another full-length novel in the interim. I've also written several dozen unpublished novels that will never see the light of day, not burnt, but hidden very well. So it's definitely not my first work

That wasn't quite my point. You're concerned that the first book in the series isn't up to scratch. To be honest, you're right to be worried. No-one wants to feel ashamed later because that first book wasn't as good as it could have been. That's why I suggest completing the series first, then going back to look the books over in order. It should make the series hang together better, in that you'll probably find ways to link the books that you hadn't thought of earlier (things like story and character arcs, plot points, signposting and information drops). You'll also ensure that your writing style is reasonably consistent across all the books. A consistent style matters, because your style is partly what will attract some readers to the rest of the series once they've read the first book.

Sounds to me like the issue isn't that Jim didn't get the help and support he needed with the first story, but that the fault is with critics and authors who didn't understand that a first work won't be the same as later books. My feeling on that is that if you wait until you're a really good writer to publish, you're going to keep waiting, because you're always going to learn something new. Just my take, though!

You should send out what you think is good enough. But making sure the book is good enough isn't just a question of reading it yourself or having friends read it for you. Beta readers can help, but unless they're brutally honest you won't get all you need. And when they are brutally honest it can leave your self-confidence in shreds. Trying to self-publish a book is very brave, so don't ever doubt yourself or your own ability. Just make sure it's as good as it can be.

In hindsight my first published novel wasn't where it should have been when I sent it to the company who are now my publishers. But they accepted it - and then the editing started... Those first sessions with my editor to get the book into shape were very hard work. I learnt more about writing from those sessions than I'd ever learnt before. There were times when I wondered what I'd got into. It was worth it, my later writing has been so much better for it. But make no mistake, my editor still finds things to improve in my work. Her latest comments on the fourth novel came back today. Eight pages pages of comments and suggestions, with mark-ups all over the draft novel itself.

 

[ThinkerX]

I spent months going over and over the first books in my 'Empire' series. The first reviews of those books all mentioned grammar problems, resulting in two-star and three-star reviews. So, I pulled the books, flipped all the toggles in MS Word, and went over them a second time - and there were still abundant grammar issues. I pulled them again and went through the books with the free version of Grammarly, paying attention to the gold underlines. That *finally* cleared up the majority of the grammar issues. There were still some left, but most of those could be called 'author style.' The reviews have since gone to four or five stars.

For the last book, I went over it multiple times with the paid version of Grammarly - and I *still* find the odd typo or grammar artefact.

My recommendation - if you are trying to do this on the cheap, go with the free version of Grammarly or ProWritingAid. With free Grammarly, pay attention to the gold underlines (the program will offer cryptic hints about them, but that's it). Going that route will catch about 70% of the grammar issues, especially if you do multiple passes. Paid Grammarly will flag about 90% of the issues. If you go that route, they offer steep discount sales now and again. Paid Grammarly will also give you mini-lectures on words it doesn't care for, like 'slave' or 'old woman,' but you can fix that.

These days, most of my 'new' writing is actually rewriting and expanding old stories. Usually, the first thing I do is divide the old story into working blocks, then go over each block with Grammarly, fixing the stuff I plan to keep and deleting the rest. I then add new scenes and chapters. After that, I set it aside for a few weeks and work on other stuff. Then, it is time for the next rewrite - the rewrite lite.' The big plot and character issues were resolved in the first rewrite, so this goes pretty quickly. After that, more passes to catch overlooked issues with the plot, setting, or characters, followed by line-by-line edit passes.

 

[Prince of Spires]

One thing I forgot to mention in my post, and which is good to keep in mind is that with indie publishing, you are not just limited to a single chance. There is nothing wrong with putting out a book that's bad. Yes, it will likely not sell. And Yes, you might feel ashamed for it down the line. And yes, it might very well get bad reviews.

But you know what, that doesn't actually matter in the grand scheme of things. Author pen names are free and easy to set up. If you've found that your writing was so bad that it hurts your future book sales, then you log into your Amazon account (note: don't make a new account, ever! Use the same one), and when you publish your next book, in the author field, type a different name. That's it. You've now just started your second pen name, with no history attached to it. No one will know the other name is also you (except people you tell like friends and family).

You can make a fresh start as many times as you like. Plenty of people have multiple pen names for lots of different reasons. So there's absolutely no harm done to your long term indie author carreer (if you want one) by publishing a bad book.

Also, if you accidentally have your fifth book for a given pen name go viral, and you find that the first book is bad and you don't want people reading it, then it's as simple as again logging into Amazon, pushing the "unpublish" button, and you're done. No one can read it anymore (except for a few people who downloaded it already...).

Yes, it will still show up on your author page and on good reads etc. However, a bad book will likely sell very little and have very few reviews. People will just ignore it. Unless you get some crazy super fans. Then they might just ask you for it...