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So my story is too offensive :(
- Thread starter WonderingSword5
- Start date
I wouldn't say "fake," but I would say highly structured and designed with particular needs and philosophies in mind.
It would be more fair to think of them as sports than as combat styles. Most of them have developed the last several hundred years in tournaments and public demonstrations instead of combat. Most modern militaries don't even spend much time on hand-to-hand combat, so MMA is probably the only test.
But I would note that even MMA is kind of biased. Most MMA matches come down to pinning your opponent, which is NOT something you would ever want to do on a battlefield. Think about a three-on-three match, and it's clear that while pinning down one guy you're leaving yourself open to the others.
As I understand it (don't quote me on this), based on MMA, supposedly Tai Chi and Aikido are about useless while Muay Thai holds up the best. Tai Kwan Do is all flashy kicks that look good on stage but are terrible in a fight. Karate and Kung Fu are good enough for self defense, and they use a lot of the basic strikes that work in MMA. Any of those would put you good in physical shape, though, which is probably all most people would really care about.
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What I got from looking into this is that when people say "fake" they mean fake in terms of effectiveness as a combat technique. And that high degree of structure and inflexibility in the philosophy is part of the issue. There are masters who boast about being able to take on all comers and when it comes time to put up, they get embarrassed by lower tier MMA fighters.
The point of contention goes towards those who claim the techniques from martial arts X will enable you to protect yourself in a confrontation, when they can't, not even a little. And that can give someone a false sense of security that could get them injured.
So as a discipline, traditional martial arts, I'd say they're real.
Now if you want to see fake, what's in this video is fake in all forms. And it makes me belly laugh every time I see it.
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Since we usually think of martial arts out of Asia, for the sake of fairness and comparison, I want to point out some other guys who would be terrible in MMA. They practice some western fighting sports. And they're really well known for bragging about how much they can beat people up.
FifthView
Vala
Well the word "fake" is an interesting word, isn't it?
Yeah, the video I watched used the word, I think, and my own thoughts turn on the idea that these martial arts are often sold as being effective fighting techniques. Martial arts, not sporting arts. This doesn't mean the art is fake, I suppose, but maybe the claim to being martial is.
Further, there is a mystique surrounding them, a romantic view of them, which may be untied to reality—but I'm not altogether certain whose fault this is, heh. Maybe not many practitioners' fault. Maybe this is instead the fault of those of us standing on the outside looking in, or the fault of those who have made lots of $$$ selling this mystique.
But I don't actually have any skin in this game.
It seems like the feedback on here has finally come to the conclusion that my story would be a problem. The fantasy part seems ok. But using a real martial art style used by the students and MC that was run by the evil teacher at the bad dojo seems controversial. So I can simply make up the martial arts style and base it in real arts and base it off of the similar rules and scoring system. And of the dijo would be a fictional made up one, which I had planned from the beginning. Not sure why everyone thought I was using a real school, I thought I was clear about this
The part about the drugs, I can just save that for the future in the story's dystopian world and not mention the dojo using any super drug for the students to help them win the matches at all and just say the teacher was just a jerk overall that wanted his students to always win and he was a sore loser kind of guy?
If martial art story isn't allowed I'll just make it an evil clinic with supernatural spirits, which idea is better?
I haven't read your story but it doesn't sound offensive to me. From the description here, your story sounds a lot like Cobra Kai (show on Netflix). I liked that show. It was pretty cheesy but entertaining. So maybe taking a more humors/tongue in cheek tone might work.
- Thread starter
- #28
WonderingSword5
Troubadour
So if I wanted to make the reader to be able to suspend disbelief, would this sound better as a hidden underground martial arts tournament with the bad teacher's school using a made up art and the bad school got shut down 20+ years ago for being exposed for using enhanced drugs on the students? Or sound better if I use a real martial arts system and there was a tournament 20+ years ago the students went to that was similar to the All Valley tournament in Karate Kid and the school got shut down when the bad teacher was caught cheating using his students in the finals?
So when the kids would come home from karate or kung fu practice, what would they tell the parents when they ask their kids how class was and if they can come watch them compete in their matches?
Yes I agree. But since these kids would be taking these martial arts classes multiple times a week, parents would be asking how the classes were, what would keep the kids silent or lie about it if the kids themselves think the school is good and doing nothing illegal?
I want to. I just know I'm gonna get lots of hate for it
- Thread starter
- #29
WonderingSword5
Troubadour
The funny thing is my story is almost like this! I mean the part about there being a tournament that existed in my story that my MC went to in his youth, with a huge crowd watching the martial art matches and his school being similar to that of Cobra Kai.
The thing is, this isn't meant to be humorous with any tongue in cheek tones, it's more dark and grim
The reason is that the tournament and bad school the MC went to is not a big part of the story. This is just a segment of when he was a kid back in the day of what happened at the tournament he competed in and when the school shut down. The main story is him as an adult, set in the future. His background as a kid is similar to Karate Kid/Cobra Kai, where he had his bad instructor teaching.
And his life during the more present days would have more scenes of things like mma in it, then the future stuff happens.
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The funny thing is my story is almost like this! I mean the part about there being a tournament that existed in my story that my MC went to in his youth, with a huge crowd watching the martial art matches and his school being similar to that of Cobra Kai.
The thing is, this isn't meant to be humorous with any tongue in cheek tones, it's more dark and grim
The reason is that the tournament and bad school the MC went to is not a big part of the story. This is just a segment of when he was a kid back in the day of what happened at the tournament he competed in and when the school shut down. The main story is him as an adult, set in the future. His background as a kid is similar to Karate Kid/Cobra Kai, where he had his bad instructor teaching.
And his life during the more present days would have more scenes of things like mma in it, then the future stuff happens.
That make sense to me. Your tone can whatever you set as an author. Dark and grim does work for a story like this.
Joe Abecrombie has a few stories like this. I'd consider checking out his work if you are interested.
So I have a question that may help you. This is a question I always ask myself whenever I get stuck. Can you summarize your story in 1 or 2 sentences? Right now it is a little tricky for me to figure out what your story is about. Is it about a guy who needs to overcome PTSD and is afraid to fight? Is it about a guy who is angry and bitter and has to learn to be less angry and bitter?
I really find being able to answer this question very helpful. I have also heard that is helpful to be able to succinctly summarize your story quickly to a prospective agent/editor etc.
Examples:
Frodo is a hobbit who needs to toss a ring into a volcano to save the world from a dark lord.
Katniss is a teenage girl from a small mining town and needs the Hunger Games to take care of her family. She later uses these skills to help lead a rebellion against her oppressive/corrupt govt.
I hope this helps!
Either approach, IMHO, could work. It's all about the execution. It's like when two different people tell the same joke. If one person's delivery is less than stellar, no one will laugh. If the delivery is great, then people will be rolling on the floor.
This all depends on your character, the parent's, their relationship. and what type of story you're trying to tell. In one scenario, simply saying good and no will be enough. In another, there may be a lot of big lies and manipulation involved. I can't tell you what your characters will say and how they would/should react, because they're your characters, and I don't know them or what your intentions are with your story. Iron man is not going to react the same way as Captain America when faced with the same situation.
These are problems that all writers face in their stories and have to figure out. That's part of the job and skill of being a writer. Like I said before it depends on the characters, their relationships, and the situation. People lie for tons of reasons. Don't tell Mom I let you have ice cream for dinner or I'll get in trouble. Don't tell Dad I snuck out or I'll tell them about your dirty magazines.
I want to. I just know I'm gonna get lots of hate for it
Are you writing the story for the haters or are you writing it for you and the people who will enjoy it? You get to choose who's opinions matter.
My question is, given as much time and energy as you've spent handwringing about this, have you started the story, yet? All that energy is best spent just making pages.
Malise
Scribe
WonderingSword5
I have a small antedocte about my own experiences with the 'writing what you don't know' issue that most writers do have.
I actually joined my school's wrestling team for a year just because I wanted to see how much I would suck at it, out of a sense of morbid curiosity. And it was a really bad case of morbid curiosity, as I'm as physically threatening as an underweight 5th grader that completes their mile run in 11 minutes. I did really suck. I lost 4 out of the 5 official matches I competed in and stalemated in 1, and I believe that I came into the stalemate fight wearing glasses with my fighting gear.
Around the same time, I was also writing a story about turf wars between organized crime members, when the only experience I had with the subject was living in an area of L.A where gangs technically stopped being an issue 25 years ago. Since I technically had more personal experience with the subject of organized crime than most people, I didn't do any research because dumb me assumed that 'street cred' and 'immersion in the culture' were enough for authenticity. Boy, I was wrong. I ended up with a story with obsessively well-dressed and flamboyant hitmen, too much female and pretty boy representation, and little-to-no mention of drugs, blood feuds, and broken families. The entire thing might've been the thing that justifies having sensitivity readers for criminals if mainstream media got a hold of it.
What I did notice however, was that my fight scenes did get infinitely better due to my experiences in wrestling. They got more dynamic and realistic, and the fights where the viewpoint character was losing were 10x more emotional (for obvious reasons). However, the issue was I wrote only good melee fights, and gangs don't bring knives to gunfights. This is despite the fact that I was in a marksman team before, so theoretically I should be able to write a good shoot-out. But experience doesn't equal expertise and considering the fact that I sucked harder in shooting than I did in wrestling, so I might've written my bad techniques in as 'god-tier tactics' that the MC supreme uses to kill everything. Like seriously, who brings a rifle (the only firearm I was trained in) to a pistol fight?
So yeah, those were all the attempts that I made to intentionally 'write what I know' by seeking to 'experience what I write', which ended up with very mixed results. Was it still a fun story to write? Very. However, if you make me compete with a kid who spent their entire life in a gated community who is x100 more obsessed with Al Capone than I am to write a more authentic organized crime story, the kid in a gated community would probably win. Though there is a chance that I still wrote the better story, even if it's the less authentic one. So take that as you will.
I have a small antedocte about my own experiences with the 'writing what you don't know' issue that most writers do have.
I actually joined my school's wrestling team for a year just because I wanted to see how much I would suck at it, out of a sense of morbid curiosity. And it was a really bad case of morbid curiosity, as I'm as physically threatening as an underweight 5th grader that completes their mile run in 11 minutes. I did really suck. I lost 4 out of the 5 official matches I competed in and stalemated in 1, and I believe that I came into the stalemate fight wearing glasses with my fighting gear.
Around the same time, I was also writing a story about turf wars between organized crime members, when the only experience I had with the subject was living in an area of L.A where gangs technically stopped being an issue 25 years ago. Since I technically had more personal experience with the subject of organized crime than most people, I didn't do any research because dumb me assumed that 'street cred' and 'immersion in the culture' were enough for authenticity. Boy, I was wrong. I ended up with a story with obsessively well-dressed and flamboyant hitmen, too much female and pretty boy representation, and little-to-no mention of drugs, blood feuds, and broken families. The entire thing might've been the thing that justifies having sensitivity readers for criminals if mainstream media got a hold of it.
What I did notice however, was that my fight scenes did get infinitely better due to my experiences in wrestling. They got more dynamic and realistic, and the fights where the viewpoint character was losing were 10x more emotional (for obvious reasons). However, the issue was I wrote only good melee fights, and gangs don't bring knives to gunfights. This is despite the fact that I was in a marksman team before, so theoretically I should be able to write a good shoot-out. But experience doesn't equal expertise and considering the fact that I sucked harder in shooting than I did in wrestling, so I might've written my bad techniques in as 'god-tier tactics' that the MC supreme uses to kill everything. Like seriously, who brings a rifle (the only firearm I was trained in) to a pistol fight?
So yeah, those were all the attempts that I made to intentionally 'write what I know' by seeking to 'experience what I write', which ended up with very mixed results. Was it still a fun story to write? Very. However, if you make me compete with a kid who spent their entire life in a gated community who is x100 more obsessed with Al Capone than I am to write a more authentic organized crime story, the kid in a gated community would probably win. Though there is a chance that I still wrote the better story, even if it's the less authentic one. So take that as you will.
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I'd like to build on this a bit. The story that's mentioned in my signature (Special Delivery for those reading this further down the timeline) is about an emergency C-section, told from the view of someone who's planning on medical school but hasn't started college, yet. Now, I come from a medical family, so I'm comfortable discussing a wide range of medical issues - a good thing, since one of our MC's is a trauma surgeon. That being said, I've never attended a birth, I don't have kids, and obviously never been pregnant. So what do you do with all this? Your homework. I went into research mode knowing it would have to be an emergency C-section, without any idea of why. Research told me why, how, and when, and we were off to the races. I'm pretty happy with the results.
The Dark One
Auror
We have two threads for this?
All of my stories offend lots of people. I don't think I'd be doing my job if that was not the case, and while that may (itself) offend some people...they can at least be comfortable with the fact that I don't sell all that many.
All of my stories offend lots of people. I don't think I'd be doing my job if that was not the case, and while that may (itself) offend some people...they can at least be comfortable with the fact that I don't sell all that many.
FifthView
Vala
I'm almost always offended by bad writing, but that doesn't keep me from doing it, except for when it does.
Prince of Spires
Istar
There's actually 3...
Though my conclusion for this thread is that since the story isn't written yet it's impossible for it to be offensive to anyone.
- Thread starter
- #38
WonderingSword5
Troubadour
A little bit of both I would say. He was strung on the wrong path by a bad mentor, which reflected his life in a very negative way, since a young age. It's not all his fault, he was never meant to have learned the bad path and he has to learn to overcome these evils and face the one who tried to corrupt him in the first place.
I am
I'm not going to let the nay sayers talk me down for saying it's too offensive. from everyone's feedback on here I think I figured out some great tips to avoid any haters calling it offensive and it seems like their opinions won't matter to me now. Everyone on here seems to agree my story has potential, so I'm writing it!A little bit of both I would say. He was strung on the wrong path by a bad mentor, which reflected his life in a very negative way, since a young age. It's not all his fault, he was never meant to have learned the bad path and he has to learn to overcome these evils and face the one who tried to corrupt him in the first place.
I am
Thats good to hear!
So just to be completely honest, I still don't completely get what your story is about. I am asking for more of a specific arc. Using Hunger Games as an example again (not because I think it is amazing but because it has a very clear plot) - "Katniss has PTSD from her first experience in the Hunger Games and now has to go in a second time." That is a very specific problem and a very specific source of conflict for her. It helps the reader stay engaged with the story b/c it gives us a reason to care about her and her actions. Even when she can be annoying or rude to people, we still care about her b/c we know what she has been through and understand that she will do anything for the people she loves.
So my question for you is - What does your main character do? Does he seek vengeance against his mentor in some sort of redemption arc? Does he become like the Punisher and exact vigilante justice on "bad people"?
I hope I don't come across as condescending. I think that focusing on a specific action or set of actions your character does may help you with this.
It seems like the feedback on here has finally come to the conclusion that my story would be a problem. The fantasy part seems ok. But using a real martial art style used by the students and MC that was run by the evil teacher at the bad dojo seems controversial. So I can simply make up the martial arts style and base it in real arts and base it off of the similar rules and scoring system. And of the dijo would be a fictional made up one, which I had planned from the beginning. Not sure why everyone thought I was using a real school, I thought I was clear about this
The part about the drugs, I can just save that for the future in the story's dystopian world and not mention the dojo using any super drug for the students to help them win the matches at all and just say the teacher was just a jerk overall that wanted his students to always win and he was a sore loser kind of guy?
If martial art story isn't allowed I'll just make it an evil clinic with supernatural spirits, which idea is better?
Why wouldn't you be allowed to use a drug in your story? I am in mine and they are students. Well, mines more of a fictional medication that can be abused. But the drug part to me, seems fine. But I can see how using a real martial Arts style and presenting it in a bad light, could be an issue. Idk it's your story. Getting opinions is good but just because you get one or two opinions that don't agree with what your writing, doesn't necessarily mean it's not appropriate.
