Surviving a Siege

[Boiled Water]

I'm developing a mountain-dwelling race that farm in the valleys then retreat to mountain strongholds when threats arise. These fortresses are virtually impenetrable so warfare in this society has evolved around laying siege, cutting off food supplies, and waiting out the enemy. I've done a little research but would love to hear some creative strategies for surviving long-lasting sieges. Any ideas are welcome!

 

[RedMetalHunter]

I would think the biggest challenge facing folk in a mountain stronghold would be a potable water supply. Unless they were high enough that snow was a constant resource that could be melted and purified, a continuous supply could be a challenge. Chances are they would be much to high to make any form of well reasonable, though it is fantasy (I assume) so real-life water tables may not be an issue. Giant water tanks may be needed?

Food could be grown in underground caverns or tunnels. Stuff like edible fungus, slugs, worms, insects would not be subject to light requirements that more traditional crops face.

A long series of "secret" tunnels could be used to sneak out and acquire supplies.

 

[TheKillerBs]

I would assume you would put the fortresses in strategic choke points, which would allow the defenders to go further uphill to get more supplies deeper in the mountains.

 

[TinyHippo]

Back in the day, food and water rations were key. Intern fighting won/lost most sieges... Atleast in the late medieval period were castles were protected by less than 50 man. Maybe as little as 10. These 10 man had to hold the city gate, while playing police inside the castlewalls with 200+ hungry citizens.

Due to the intern struggle plus the fact that food supplies were limited, low society members and criminals were placed on the outside of the castlewall, just before the siege. Less mouths to feed, less fighting to deal with..

If I were you I would write in some stuff about how all meat and fish is salted, fruit is dried, cheese and bread is hidden in cold, dark cavern and so on. You know... Long-lasting food. Not just under the siege, but as a part of these peoples live, they must set for a lesser livelyhood everyday in order to survive. Make it about teameffort, because that is probably the only way they will have a chance.
Don't hang me up on numbers, but around 9/10 of sieges were won by the attacking opposition.

Edit: My answer was based on your wish for the siege to last longer. Your people can live in other ways, like having great siege defence weapons installed or something. Or having a thousand longbow archers, no army will take more than one volley of that kinda stuff...

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Like the others it's about food and water. So how much food and water can they store? Can they grow some food? However siege warfare can be complex. In a traditional scenario the ones besieged simply have to wait. But it's not impossible for the ones besieged to take the fight to the enemies. Remember they have walls - I assume. So is it possible that they have war machines? Cannon? If so, and if the army besieging them is choked perhaps in a narrow valley etc, they could inflict heavy casualties on their attackers while safe behind their walls. This of course depends on range - but if the attackers are forced by geography to remain close - and they may not have the numbers to completely surround the fortress etc at greater distances because their lines become stretched - they could be in trouble. Also the cost of running a siege is prohibitive. Can the enemy actually afford in terms of men and supplies to keep the siege running for potentially years? If not then at some point they have to either attack or retreat.

Alternatively the besieged can look at hit and run attacks - riding out from their gates - presumably at night - then attacking and retreating. Drawing the enemy back as they give chase to the fortress and have them break on their walls thus suffering heavy losses.

The other option that usually breaks sieges is outside force. Can your besieged fortress make contact with an ally?

Cheers, Greg.

 

[La Volpe]

I would think the biggest challenge facing folk in a mountain stronghold would be a potable water supply. Unless they were high enough that snow was a constant resource that could be melted and purified, a continuous supply could be a challenge. Chances are they would be much to high to make any form of well reasonable, though it is fantasy (I assume) so real-life water tables may not be an issue. Giant water tanks may be needed?

My geography isn't exactly up to scratch, but aren't rivers' sources usually on high altitudes, i.e. mountains? And I'd wager they would make their fortresses near one of the rapids, or the source (I have no idea what that would be though. A lake?). In which case the besieged city should have trouble with water supply. But since the ones doing the besieging are also mountain dwellers, I guess they could go higher up and try to dam the water, but that'll be hard with rapids.

 

[RedMetalHunter]

My geography isn't exactly up to scratch, but aren't rivers' sources usually on high altitudes, i.e. mountains?

Usually, based on terrain and size of the river.

And I'd wager they would make their fortresses near one of the rapids, or the source (I have no idea what that would be though. A lake?).

I would assume the "source" would be a spring of some kind. A natural location where groundwater finds its way to the surface. Based on the way water tables tend to work, ground water would not, typically, be near the surface on a high mountain. But that is not to say it is impossible.

A lot of the mountain water that finds its way into a river is winter run off, where melting snow makes its way down. Many small streams usually feed into rivers, which often feed larger rivers, which typically end in a large lake or an ocean.

In which case the besieged city should have trouble with water supply. But since the ones doing the besieging are also mountain dwellers, I guess they could go higher up and try to dam the water, but that'll be hard with rapids.

Entirely possible. It really depends on elevation, the layout of the land, the kind of stone that the mountains consist of, the weather, water table, and climate of the region. But (again I assume) its a fantasy story, so anything can make sense if it needs to - and is done well.

 

[Creed]

Glaciers are also a very important source of water.

You could even have one side of the siege dislodge/destroy the glacier. For the attackers it could cut off water supply and open new paths of travel. For the defender it could be a last, desperate attempt to kill the enemy. And imagine if they failed to destroy the attackers and simultaneously lost their own source of water, now that would ratchet up tension.

 

[TheKillerBs]

IChances are they would be much to high to make any form of well reasonable, though it is fantasy (I assume) so real-life water tables may not be an issue.

As luck would have it, our geologist was grousing about something that cropped up in one of his projects that was related to this, so I jumped on the chance to ask about it. Turns out that faulting causes high porosity in otherwise highly impermeable rocks, and they're the main source of high altitude groundwater.

 

[X Equestris]

Keep in mind that the attackers will need their own sources of food and water to support their forces. If the defenders can launch sallies and destroy or block access to these, the enemy would eventually be forced to fall back to some place they could get them.

 

[RedMetalHunter]

As luck would have it, our geologist was grousing about something that cropped up in one of his projects that was related to this, so I jumped on the chance to ask about it. Turns out that faulting causes high porosity in otherwise highly impermeable rocks, and they're the main source of high altitude groundwater.

Perfect timing. Good to know, and that makes sense.

 

[Queshire]

DwarvesDwarvesDwarvesDwarvesDwarves.

Er..... Sorry, just the first thing that came to mind to me.

Well, as the others have said, food and water are important. Personally I love the image of underground farms growing mushrooms and the like or artificial underground lakes to serve as giant reservoirs, however the difficulty of setting that up would limit things.

There are other concerns though. Air quality is one. With a bunch of people stuck underground for an indeterminate length of time proper ventilation is going to be important otherwise that air is going to go bad pretty quickly, and by that same token, besieging armies are going to put a priority on discovering that ventilation and doing all sorts of nasty stuff to it. When you're besieging a castle you can't really go over it, but if you're underground or in a mountain the fact that you're kinda stuck in there prevents you from being able to stop the opponents from going after those ventilation shafts. Your only hope is that the climb and whatever traps you set are enough to stop the opponent.

Underground fortresses have another disadvantage over above ground ones in that they limit the defender's point of view. With a castle you can have a tower that lets you see 360, but with the fact that you need to carve out an underground fortress pretty much dictates that you won't be able to see as much. True, an army is less able to flank a mountain than they would a castle, but the decrease in proper intelligence will be a major concern.

And, of course, there's the possibility of a dungeon bypass. Naturally it would take time, but the fact that the fortresses were carved out in the first place means that somebody else could make their own tunnel to completely bypass any of the defenses. Would that be viable in a siege situation? Depends on how long the siege is expected to last and the commander of the besieging army, but it's still something the defenders would need to consider.

 

[Laurence]

I'm imagining the inhabitants' water source flowing past/through their city from higher up the mountain. If they had some way to poison their stream or redirect it underground after it passed them, they'd have a one up on their attackers.

Controlled avalanches are always fun!

 

[Boiled Water]

Really impressed with everyone's input. The most glaring obstacles appear to be food and governing the city. Some things I should clarify. The goal is to envision a society in which abnormally long sieges could take place, at least compared to reality. I'm looking for ways these conflicts could be realistically (or unrealistically) extended, not overcome. I think it would be more interesting if these conflicts rarely come to blows, so no siege weaponry or anti-siege.

Also, mountains are a must but that does not necessarily mean underground.
Love the creativity! Keep it coming!

 

[Butterfly]

Hill farming is a thing... primarily sheep farming. I suppose in a siege the herds would be an important source of meat. And if they are sheep farming on hills or mountains, then there would probably already be some sort of hill fort or at least earthworks already in place to protect them.

 

[valiant12]

I think one of the best way to survive a siege is to destroy the besieging forces leadership.
Use your secret tunnels to send 20 good men to kill the enemy lords and officers.
Or bribe the squire of the enemy leader to poison his lord wine.
Or send the enemy leader a false letter from his king , which demand that he send his forces somewhere far away from the castle you are defending.

 

[skip.knox]

Dwarves, definitely. Just build better defenses.

But what about magic? This is, after all, a fantasy forum. Mages as flame throwers is an obvious one, but you could rifle through your bag o' tricks for any sort of magic that could disrupt or drive back attackers.

And what about magic walls, or magically reinforced walls? In my world, I have tunnelers, and every crew has at least two--one who digs in the earth and another who digs through magic. This makes counter-mining really interesting.

You could have a place that was physically inaccessible. Sheer cliffs, plunging rivers. The only way in is via a magic road. Or by dragon. Or, again since this is fantasy, the place is accessible via a thousand (magic) roads, which shift according to some fiendishly (because given by a fiend!) complex system such that only allies in the know could even get close enough to attack.

This would extend to interior defenses. City walls fell all the time, but defenders retreated to the keep and held out there until a relieving army could arrive.

No matter what, don't forget to defend against flights of pixies!

 

[Queshire]

Really impressed with everyone's input. The most glaring obstacles appear to be food and governing the city. Some things I should clarify. The goal is to envision a society in which abnormally long sieges could take place, at least compared to reality. I'm looking for ways these conflicts could be realistically (or unrealistically) extended, not overcome. I think it would be more interesting if these conflicts rarely come to blows, so no siege weaponry or anti-siege.

Also, mountains are a must but that does not necessarily mean underground.
Love the creativity! Keep it coming!

Can you be a bit more specific on how long you're looking for? Months? Years? Decades? Depending on which you want then you'll be looking for different things.

 

[Boiled Water]

Terms in years sounds cool to me. The siege of Philadelphia (Turkey) supposedly lasted twelve years. Maybe up the ante and go for around twenty? The "twenty year siege" has a nice ring to it.