Tauriel

[Steerpike]

Should dwarf women be depicted with or without beards?

Hirsutism is a biological condition. Female dwarves should be afforded reasonable accomodation under the ADA. Come to think of it, if the dwarves had simply included people with mobility issues in their party, they wouldn't have had to go sneaking around looking for the magic door into the mountain. They could simply have sued Smaug for not having accessible entrances and exits, then garnished the vast proportion of the gold he was hoarding and eventually have him thrown out on his scaled tail.

 

[Svrtnsse]

On a more serious note. I do let the world of today influence me in my writing. Probably not as much the audience as the world itself. I'm trying to write my story in a way that includes characters and events that I find interesting and appealing. I try to deal with themes that are dear to me.
I'm trying to write a story that I enjoy writing and that I can stand behind fully once its done. It's definitely influenced by the time I live in, not because I try to appeal to a certain market or strive for political correctness, but because it's part of who I am.

 

[Amanita]

Well, I've not seen the Hobbit-movie because (unlike LoTR) the book failed to grip me. This might have been because I used to be too young when I read it and it went completely against my fantasy ideas of the times, involving elves as female nature spirits among other things. The absence of female characters probably played it's part but it wasn't the only reason.
I'm extremely opposed to strong changes in book adapted for movies though. Some changes are necessary due to the different media of course but introducing completely new characters and plot lines definitely isn't. In my case, the addition of a female character doesn't help draw me to the cinema because it doesn't matter to me if I know it wasn't what the actual creator intended.
I really think directors should make their own stories if they want something different from the book and I'd really like to see a good modern fantasy movie actually made for this medium (and with well-done female characters.)

Do I let the world of today influence my writing? Since my setting is modern, yes, current events do influence the story and to some extent, the discussions about minorities did as well. I'm not worried about my female characters because I am female and don't see most of the problems many writers seem to have with female characters but in my case, the fact that I have a PoC-protagonist has been the reason for some pondering. According to online-discussions, there seems to be no way a white writer can do this without offending someone anyway. Even the question if writing non-white protagonists is presumptuous or not writing them is offensive seems to be under debate, so I've given up on trying to avoid offending someone and focus on telling a good story instead. I do still worry about this from time to time though and wonder if turning her white wouldn't be less problematic after all.

 

[Nihal]

My question is: Why are warrior women considered something that exists exclusively for the modern world, a hype or anything like that? Why does it need to be justified?

"There weren't many women engaged in such activities in the past." Nor half-breed races are common in their universes, or the chosen ones, neither farmer boys who are secretly kings, and all those one-of-a-kind like. But no one points at them and shouts it's not believable. Yet in many stories meaningful female characters are regarded as a token of appreciation for you audience, a spare change you're handing to a beggar, so your female audience will be kept quiet.


The irony is... Did you know one of the most successful pirates of the history was a woman? When armadas of three different countries couldn't defeat her fleet the government struck a deal with her, so she'd retire peacefully after years terrorizing them and leave them alone. She wasn't European/North American either.

These women existed, you just won't find them in your avarage history book. Women like that aren't not something new created to cater to the modern audiences.

 

[Jabrosky]

I'm not worried about my female characters because I am female and don't see most of the problems many writers seem to have with female characters but in my case, the fact that I have a PoC-protagonist has been the reason for some pondering. According to online-discussions, there seems to be no way a white writer can do this without offending someone anyway. Even the question if writing non-white protagonists is presumptuous or not writing them is offensive seems to be under debate, so I've given up on trying to avoid offending someone and focus on telling a good story instead. I do still worry about this from time to time though and wonder if turning her white wouldn't be less problematic after all.

I have also seen the attitude that people of European descent shouldn't write non-European characters and call bollocks on it, at least as a general principle.

Sure, if you're writing about a real living culture outside your own, it might be difficult to avoid misrepresenting that culture if you don't have intimate familiarity with it. I for one don't have any plans to write about, say, the urban poor in 21st century Lagos, Nigeria. However, when you are writing fictional societies, or even about past societies that don't exist in unmodified form anymore, comparatively few if any people are going to correct you with the same indignation as an urban poor citizen of Lagos would if you got their culture wrong. There are no more ancient Egyptians or Dahomeans around, and there never existed Lemurians or Atlanteans.

When you remove the obligations of accurately portraying real living societies, in the end all you really have to do is develop your characters beyond one-dimensional caricatures, regardless of their skin color or whatever.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

@Nihal, the most inspiring knight in history, to me, is Jehanne Darc. I've written more than one character that was inspired by her.

(Baldhart from Dragon's Egg is one of them… which reminds me, I gotta stop keeping this topic alive so SP will stop reading this and update Dragon's Egg!)

 

[Steerpike]

(Baldhart from Dragon's Egg is one of them… which reminds me, I gotta stop keeping this topic alive so SP will stop reading this and update Dragon's Egg!)

This explains why the lizards are gathering wood for a fire.

I'm going to update the game asap. I have the posts ready to go, but I have to find the time to sit down and make three maps

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

Oh, sure… we take a path to avoid the Inquisition, and now midget lizards do in the barbarian Joan of Arc.

 

[Fyle]

On a more serious note. I do let the world of today influence me in my writing. Probably not as much the audience as the world itself. I'm trying to write my story in a way that includes characters and events that I find interesting and appealing. I try to deal with themes that are dear to me.
I'm trying to write a story that I enjoy writing and that I can stand behind fully once its done. It's definitely influenced by the time I live in, not because I try to appeal to a certain market or strive for political correctness, but because it's part of who I am.

You made me realize my question could be asked slightly different. Thanks.

I meant to ask :

Do you let the audience / reader affect your writing? If so, to what extent?

To explain further about Tauriel, its fine she is in the movie. The problem is, her role is so big and involved with the main plot. If she had her own side story, or followed along quietly it would be much better and make more sense. She is too "headlined."

On the first trailer for the third installment she was the second character they showed after Bilbo. The level of importance they give her is the main issue.

If the movie was meant to be about her in her own spin off or something taking place in Middle Earth, I'd be fine with it. Just keep her out of the source material, or give her a small part.

 

[Gryphos]

To explain further about Tauriel, its fine she is in the movie. The problem is, her role is so big and involved with the main plot. If she had her own side story, or followed along quietly it would be much better and make more sense. She is too "headlined."

On the first trailer for the third installment she was the second character they showed after Bilbo. The level of importance they give her is the main issue.

If the movie was meant to be about her in her own spin off or something taking place in Middle Earth, I'd be fine with it. Just keep her out of the source material, or give her a small part.

Now that is a much more reasonable stance to take compared to what the original post suggested. And, you know what, to some extent I can somewhat agree. I still absolutely believe it is important to have her present and active in the plot (not a 'small' part), but perhaps they have given her a tad more importance than strictly necessary. (And, like everyone, I still don't like the romance)

 

[Mindfire]

I just don't like her name. ...And that's it. Not sure what side that puts me on.

 

[Jabrosky]

I just don't like her name. ...And that's it. Not sure what side that puts me on.

She's an elf. Names which sound obnoxiously pretty or elegant are perfectly in character for elves (at least if you go by genre stereotypes).

 

[Fyle]

I just don't like her name. ...And that's it. Not sure what side that puts me on.

It puts you on the side of liking her basically. Not liking the name means you have no actual problem with her. I think the name is fine, that has nothing to do with the debate really.

 

[Fyle]

The difference being Mike Tyson and Rambo aren't elves. They wouldn't fit with the atmosphere and world the films have created up to this point. Whereas Tauriel does fit within that world as it is presented in the films, and has the benefit of adding gender diversity. If she was also more fleshed out as a character, that would great.

Making the comment about Mike Tyson and Rambo was not literal, it was to prove the point that "kicking ass" has nothing to do with whether the character works or not.

There is no benefit to adding gender diversity in this case. This is a classic, the genders have been decided. For an original work that is written today, sure, it is a great benefit.

She can't be more fleshed out because no one can really flesh her out except Tolkien properly, because he is the one who imagined the characters who surround her and how they would react to her.

If we change original work so much... and move around characters so much, change genders, change endings, then what's the point of original work? George Martin may as well just submit a character list to a publisher and let the fans mix and match over the years to do all different things and have a "choose your own adventure" story.

Sorry man, I want to see the best possible representation of Tolkien's original imagined world, I do not want to see Peter Jackson's conformed remix (or anyone elses).