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The Desolation of Smaug

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by Sheilawisz, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. Ophiucha

    Ophiucha Auror

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    Tauriel could have been better, in my opinion. I think the character was useful, given the changes Jackson has made to the film and the extra ties to Lord of the Rings, having a sympathetic-to-the-dwarves elf is a good idea. And Legolas obviously couldn't do that. I am completely in favour of adding a prominent female character to the cast, since this is a bit of a sausage fest. But... yeah, I agree with Ireth, she was very poorly handled.

    She doesn't get to do any fighting on her own, really, despite being the captain of the guard. It was almost always tag team archery with Legolas. Instead of having her use healing magic, I think she should have been fighting the big bulky orc and chasing after him on horseback. I was okay with her liking Kili, but having Legolas like her on top of that? A bit too much. Particularly when he decided to defy his father to go follow her - would have been better if he shut the gate on her. Her healing was a bit Mary Sue-ish, but at the same time, she didn't really get to do anything or add much. She didn't tell the dwarves what herb was needed to heal him, she didn't fight her way through an army of orcs to find it, she just arrived - saw the herb that would have healed him anyway - and supplemented it with a bit of elven magic so Kili could think she was pretty when she glowed.

    It's like she wasn't enough of her own character, yet she was still kind of a director darling despite that. A really strange combo.
     
    Ruby and Ireth like this.
  2. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    I liked the character of Tauriel...I figured she was there to give Legolas a love interest, but Kili and her just kind of killed it. They just wanted an elf-mortal love thing like they had in LotR. That being said, I LOVED that movie. Smaug was amazing. Best dragon ever. The chiefest and greatest of calamities, in fact. When he glowed before he breathed fire, that was great. Him being Benedict Cumberbatch was great. Total Sherlock-Watson thing going on there (also him as the Necromancer. I needed to hear Cumberbatch using the Black Speech. It was beautiful.). But gold-plating the dragon. I HATED IT because
    GRRM killed Viserys with molten gold. The dragon was woken and deluged with molten gold.
    . I felt that Jackson should never have done what he did to that scene.
     
  3. Ruby

    Ruby Auror

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    I've just seen this film. First I'd like to say that The Hobbit is my favourite book - I've read it lots of times. Maybe that's why I didn't like the film. Okay, the special effects were good and Martin Freeman is excellent in the role of Bilbo. But it just isn't the story of The Hobbit. It's kind of lost its soul. It was much too long because they have to justify making three films out of quite a short children's book, but of course there isn't a proper ending because we have to wait another year for that! Inventing a female elf and a love story with her and the only handsome dwarf was just cynical marketing, in my opinion. Do we need token female characters? It seemed to also be an exercise in how many ways can you kill an Orc! :(
     
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  4. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    I loved the film. The scene with Gandalf confronting the Necromancer alone was worth the price of admission. And Cumberbatch was a top notch Smaug.

    EDIT: As for the alleged love triangle, it was easy to ignore. In fact, I read her interactions with Kili as friendship and curiosity- her character seems very curious about the outside world- more than infatuation. She and Legolas feel like two very old friends who have a special fondness for each other rather than a couple. I wouldn't call it a love triangle at all. More like a friendship triangle.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  5. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    And top notch Necromancer. That was a really good scene. I liked the use of the Black Speech, but I don't like that the Ring became the center of everything.
     
  6. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    I wouldn't say it became the center. But they were definitely stressing the connections.
     
  7. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    That doesn't sound good, given that there's no real indication at the time of The Hobbit that anyone understands what the ring is.
     
  8. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    Too much so, in my opinion. The Hobbit was not about the Ring. The Hobbit had the Ring in it. There's a difference.
     
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  9. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    I doubt that was intentional.
     
  10. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    Probably not, but it's what I thought of.
     
  11. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    I think this is still the case. The audience knows what the ring is, but none of the characters know. The only one who senses its true nature is Smaug, which isn't unbelievable, and even he doesn't draw much attention to it or even seem to care really. It only feels like the ring is so prominent because *we* know what it is and because they've included the story of discovering the Necromancer, which is indirectly connected to the ring.
     
  12. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    That actually makes sense...Thank you for justifying the actions of Peter Jackson. I was beginning to think I wasn't going to be able to watch the next one :O
     
  13. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    The healing was obviously a callback (or would it be foreshadowing?) of the Arwen/Frodo scene in Fellowship. So I was okay with it. And I like the way she and Legolas fight together, always in sync and wordlessly coordinated. It shows how well they know each other and what great friends they are.
     
  14. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    But Sylvan elves do not have the ability to heal. High elves do. Elrond passed this ability down to Arwen because he is a descendant of the High elves, as is she. She is Galadriels granddaughter, after all. Tauriel had nothing to do with the High Elves.
     
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Moderator

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    I was disappointed by the first film. My hope is that this second one will be better. I'll probably find out tomorrow.
     
  16. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    Well there's nothing to suggest her skills are on par with Arwen's, much less Elrond's. Killi's wound was far less serious than Frodo's. He was shot in the leg, completely survivable if not for the poison, while Frodo had been stabbed in the chest. Plus the poison that affected Kili was far less severe than what Frodo was afflicted by; it was only going to kill him rather than turn him into a wraith. His symptoms were also milder than Frodo's. Kili was weak, but he could still walk and move at first. Frodo was borderline comatose. And let's not forget that Kili was shot by a no-name orc while Frodo was stabbed by the Witch-King. Tauriel didn't glow as much as Arwen did either. My impression was that the poison was weak enough that the herb was doing most of the work and Tauriel just kind of gave it a boost.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  17. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    She shouldn't be able to do that much, though. She should have no healing ability at all! And Frodo was not stabbed in the chest...he was stabbed in the shoulder.
     
  18. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    It was the shoulder? I need to watch the film again. But I maintain that Tauriel basically gave the Elvish equivalent of first aid. Saying the two cases are equivalent is like saying CPR is equivalent to heart surgery. I wouldn't say she has healing ability so much as she knows her way around wild herbs.
     
  19. Noma Galway

    Noma Galway Archmage

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    The light thing, though, is what bothers me. I don't mind the herbs...I mind the thing with the magic, which should only be a High elf thing. But We should probably agree to disagree here.
     
  20. Mindfire

    Mindfire Istar

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    Well, can we prove she used magic? It's never explicitly stated. Perhaps the glow was Kili hallucinating under the effects of the poison.
     

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