the "main character"

[Philip Overby]

I'm a big fan of Martin so I can weigh in on how it affects me.

At the beginning of the series, I was really invested in the POV characters. Pretty much without fail I liked all of them. As the series wore on, there have been characters I feel a little less enthusiastic about, but I guess that happens when a story is as epic as that one is. What I hoped would happen is that when some major character dies, that would leave more room to explore the other central characters. Instead, it's kind of birthed new POVs. I don't completely have a problem with it because I ultimately think Martin knows what he's doing. But like others have said, you can't know for sure until the series is finished if all the POV characters were necessary or just a way for Martin to introduce extra plot elements (both are fine for me).

I'm also not one that I'm just interested in the series because it's shocking or gruesome. Sure, those parts can be interesting, but it always goes back to characters. The characters in the series are interesting to me because they all have their own individual goals, their limits, their loves, their hatreds, etc. And we get to see them from their POV. So I think that's cool.

I grew up on the Dragonlance books as well, so I came away thinking most all fantasy books had multiple POVs. So when I first started writing, I tried a couple of books with 7 or 8 POVs in them. They soon grew unwieldy and me being a young writer, I quickly dropped them and moved on to something else. I wish someone would have said, "Hey, Phil, try something simpler. You're pushing yourself a bit too hard, man." I had to learn on my own though.

Even now, I don't think I'm completely ready to handle a multiple POV series (which they almost always are) as a writer. However, as a reader, I really like these kind of novels when they're done well.

A little off topic, but one of my favorite videos games ever is Final Fantasy 6. The reason was because it had such a great ensemble cast. No one character was really the "main character," although some may argue that it would be Terra.

In any case, I think a great ensemble cast allows the reader to pick their favorites. I enjoy being able to do that in a book. For readers, finding a favorite character is often one of the most fun parts of reading.

And Tyrion is my favorite, by the way.

 

[Mythopoet]

And Tyrion is my favorite, by the way.

It'll be interesting to see how the fanbase reacts when he dies.

 

[Incanus]

It'll be interesting to see how the fanbase reacts when he dies.

He's my favorite as well, though I'm awfully fond of Arya.

If he's killed off toward the end, it wouldn't be all that devastating because he'd still essentially be in the whole story, as told. And it would probably be a big scene, an impactful death. He could probably even die at the end of the penultimate book (whatever that turns out to be--I have to wonder if Martin's going to be able to wrap it all up in seven total books).

One thing is for sure: There'll be at least a few more 'big' deaths before its all over. (Hardly a revelation, I know; the real question is: exactly who?)

 

[wordwalker]

Martin is the gold standard for taking risks with his cast size, alright.

This bothers me a little, that the thread references him so much. Reminds me of the times we mention Tolkien when we talk about prologues (and yes, the analogy says there's more to Tolkienian ambition than just writing for a past generation).

So: Is anyone wrestling with character count issues that aren't at the GRRM level?

 

[Philip Overby]

Martin is the gold standard for taking risks with his cast size, alright.

This bothers me a little, that the thread references him so much. Reminds me of the times we mention Tolkien when we talk about prologues (and yes, the analogy says there's more to Tolkienian ambition than just writing for a past generation).

So: Is anyone wrestling with character count issues that aren't at the GRRM level?

It's unavoidable to not mention him, honestly.

I always have issues with character overload simply because I like to have lots of different characters in my stories for whatever reason. I'm realizing though that it's kind of unnecessary to have multiple characters that serve the same kind of purpose, unless you're doing it for dramatic effect.

I think fantasy stories usually tend to have large casts because that seems to be the industry standard. If you pick up any bestselling fantasy series at the moment, it most likely has a huge cast. This is something I mentioned I think I touched on in my article "Is Fantasy Too Safe?" The standard at the moment seems to be epic fantasy and has been so for a while. Succesful writers have had large casts so that's what other people are mirroring. Not that this is a bad thing, but it can become unwieldy for more inexperienced writers who may not be ready to balance multiple character arcs, various sub-plots and the like.

I'm considering cutting a significant character in my current novel. I think it's one of those "kill your darlings" kind of moments. I like the character, but I could probably combine him with another character and get the same result. I've already cut some characters or reduced their roles a lot. That's just part of making a coherent story. If too many characters are crowding the narrative, it might be time to cut. But if you can manage all of them and make them distinct in someway, then go for it.

 

[Mythopoet]

Martin is the gold standard for taking risks with his cast size, alright.

This bothers me a little, that the thread references him so much. Reminds me of the times we mention Tolkien when we talk about prologues (and yes, the analogy says there's more to Tolkienian ambition than just writing for a past generation).

So: Is anyone wrestling with character count issues that aren't at the GRRM level?

I brought up Martin because the OP did. And because most of the times I see newer writers talking about using many POVs/MCs they mention Martin. When it comes to many POVs/MCs who are all roughly equal Martin seems to be the defining example/influence. As Phil says, it's unavoidable.

I have a tendency to have multiple groups of important characters, but there's always one at the center of each group who could be thought of as the keystone of it. A sort of "first among equals" vibe I guess. I think my influence in this is Anime, particularly of the action oriented shonen variety, which I love. It's the sort of thing where within the story all the characters are clearly equal to each other, but on the outside of the story the reader can tell that one of the characters is ever so slightly more the focus of the story than the others.

 

[Helen]

Martin is the gold standard for taking risks with his cast size, alright.

This bothers me a little, that the thread references him so much. Reminds me of the times we mention Tolkien when we talk about prologues (and yes, the analogy says there's more to Tolkienian ambition than just writing for a past generation).

So: Is anyone wrestling with character count issues that aren't at the GRRM level?

You could use Ocean's Eleven.

You can call Danny Ocean a main character, but the writers could easily have made him minor; one of the things that makes him a main character is that he's pulling Tess away from Terry, which is thematically significant.

The writers could have given other characters roles which would have increased the MC count.

It's really a "what makes a main character a main character question."

 

[Fyle]

It's really a "what makes a main character a main character question."

In a sense, yes. But, the actual question was - which do you enjoy reading once all is said and done?

I for one like multiples, it seems that way there are simply more possibilities for suprises and twists in the plot cause you can see things from different angles.

 

[wordwalker]

My point is that Martin throws the scale off, same as Tolkien's prologues do.

Agreed, large casts are common in fantasy, and it's those crowded-but-attainable books we ought to be learning more from. But the OP and most of the posts afterward have been comparing small casts to GRRM, not to a size that most of us might be ready to manage. At best, Martin is a casting-size ideal we might work our way up toward; at worst, knowing about a crowd that big is a distraction.