The villain's entry

[Ireth]

So I'm having a bit of trouble with one of my novels. I'm starting on the second draft, and in looking back at the first one, I realize it has a lot of flaws. One possible one that I noticed only recently is that the villain of the story doesn't come in until about halfway through (chapter 15 of 33). He affects a certain major character earlier, but it's entirely offscreen, mostly because to actually portray it would spoil a major reveal later on. I want to have the hero learn about the villain in the first half of the story before they meet face-to-face, but it's difficult, since the only character who could tell him (the one I mentioned as being affected offscreen) would be traumatized and unwilling to speak of the villain at all.

The logical solution would be to have the villain come into the story as a character much earlier, but the story itself rather inhibits that -- for the first several chapters both the hero and villain are isolated from each other, one in his castle and the other in his underground city, and the villain doesn't even know the hero exists until a minor character brings him into his lair. Neither of them have any reason to leave their respective homes until a) the currently-undecided-on incident which drives the hero away from his new home, where he is found by the aforesaid minor character and led into the villain's lair; and then b) the hero escapes the villain's lair, driving the villain to pursue and punish him for what is perceived as a crime.

Any thoughts/comments/questions on this?

 

[Penpilot]

Generally speaking, I don't see a problem with the villain being off screen until the half way point as long as there are other significant obstacles in his way before hand, whether it's a minor villain or other stuff.

The midpoint is a key place for a story. It's where something big happens. It's a point of no return for the hero. Sometimes it's high moment where the hero has a false victory or it can go in the opposite direction where it's a dark moment where the bad just got worse. To me it sounds like the latter. The hero is driven from his home, but then it gets worse. Enter the big bad. So it works in that respect.

Since you say the villain's presence is felt in the story before he's actually seen, I think that's fair too. For example Harry Potter does this with Voldemort in a not so subtle way by just mentioning and not mentioning his name. If you have concerns of your villain not being present enough maybe find other ways to bring his presence in through whispers, rumors, etc. Stuff like that. Simply asking the question "Who traumatised my friend?" is bringing up the villain's presence.

Finally, you mentioned not wanting to spoil a big reveal, think on this a bit. Holding onto secrets can work for and against you. When they work you get the OMG moment, which is great. But they can also get in the way. Give it a few seconds of thought on what if you did reveal the villain earlier? How would that change the story? Would it bring enough goodies to the table to be worth it?

 

[Ireth]

Generally speaking, I don't see a problem with the villain being off screen until the half way point as long as there are other significant obstacles in his way before hand, whether it's a minor villain or other stuff.

True. I guess I'm just afraid of the first half not looking interesting enough in light of the second, more dramatic villain-centric half. The hero has to deal with making his own way in the world, learning about being a vampire, making friends with an insane ghost who is very anti-vampire, and dealing with temptation when a human clan encroaches on the castle.

The midpoint is a key place for a story. It's where something big happens. It's a point of no return for the hero. Sometimes it's high moment where the hero has a false victory or it can go in the opposite direction where it's a dark moment where the bad just got worse. To me it sounds like the latter. The hero is driven from his home, but then it gets worse. Enter the big bad. So it works in that respect.

Ooh, it's definitely the latter. XD

Since you say the villain's presence is felt in the story before he's actually seen, I think that's fair too. For example Harry Potter does this with Voldemort in a not so subtle way by just mentioning and not mentioning his name. If you have concerns of your villain not being present enough maybe find other ways to bring his presence in through whispers, rumors, etc. Stuff like that. Simply asking the question "Who traumatised my friend?" is bringing up the villain's presence.

That's true, but in the case of HP, Voldemort's presence was felt from the opening chapter, when Dumbledore and McGonagall discuss the Potters' deaths moments after it happens, and Harry got a lot more info later from Hagrid. Even if I introduce my villain second-hand, it won't be until a few chapters in, after the hero meets the traumatized character. It worked with Lord of the Rings, where Frodo got bombarded with an infodump from Gandalf about who Sauron was and why he needed to be stopped, but that can't happen in my story if the traumatized vampire is so unwilling to speak. Even rumors wouldn't really work, since who would the hero hear the rumors from? He doesn't know any other vampires, and the humans who come along later wouldn't know about the villain at all.

Finally, you mentioned not wanting to spoil a big reveal, think on this a bit. Holding onto secrets can work for and against you. When they work you get the OMG moment, which is great. But they can also get in the way. Give it a few seconds of thought on what if you did reveal the villain earlier? How would that change the story? Would it bring enough goodies to the table to be worth it?

Well, the reveal in question is not about the villain himself, but a victim of his, who becomes integral to the entire plot, and an important part of that is in keeping his identity a secret until the end. Portraying his interaction with the villain would totally spoil that, whether I have it be from the victim's or villain's point of view. (Can't be the hero's POV, cuz he's stuck in a coffin in mid-vampire change at the time.) Keeping the victim's identity vague might work, though I'd still have a problem with switching to a different POV for only one scene when the rest of the novel is solely from the hero's POV. And having it alternate between hero and villain for the whole story wouldn't really work either since, as I said, the villain doesn't know the hero exists until the critical midpoint. It just wouldn't make sense.

 

[The Dark One]

Villains can have an enormous impact on the plot without being revealed to the main character until quite late. The important thing is what the reader knows as opposed to what the MC knows. You can develop great tension by letting the reader know things the MC doesn't.

Sauron for example only features in LOTR by reputation and report. His only dialogue is reported by Pippin after his bout with the palantir. The only other glimpse we get is when his thought manifests as a thunder storm over the emyn muil.

I'd always wanted to know more about the story from Sauron's perspective and had long planned to write such a story for publication in 2023. But recent changes to the copyright laws mean the Tolkiens keep the copyright until 2048...so now I couldn't be arsed.

 

[Ireth]

Villains can have an enormous impact on the plot without being revealed to the main character until quite late. The important thing is what the reader knows as opposed to what the MC knows. You can develop great tension by letting the reader know things the MC doesn't.

Sauron for example only features in LOTR by reputation and report. His only dialogue is reported by Pippin after his bout with the palantir. The only other glimpse we get is when his thought manifests as a thunder storm over the emyn muil.

I'd always wanted to know more about the story from Sauron's perspective and had long planned to write such a story for publication in 2023. But recent changes to the copyright laws mean the Tolkiens keep the copyright until 2048...so now I couldn't be arsed.

See my above response to Penpilot with regards to Sauron. Frodo learns a great deal about Sauron in the first few chapters, which is what gets him headed out of the Shire in the first place. My hero doesn't begin to learn about the villain until he's settled into the new home he finds after becoming a vampire, aside from one or two tangential references to backstory, which neither the hero nor the reader knows is about the villain at all until WAY later. So I'm not sure if that even counts.

 

[Feo Takahari]

Well, why is this character a villain? As an example, the antagonist vampires in Twilight are villains because they kill humans. The movie therefore introduces them by showing them killing humans, long before they get involved in Bella's portion of the story. (The book fails to do this, but I don't think I need to make the case that the book sucks.)

Edit: I just realized--is your whole story in first-person? I was thinking of having something revolving around or from the perspective of the villain, but that won't be possible if you're only using your hero's perspective.

 

[Ireth]

The character is a villain because a) he kills humans for both food and pleasure; b) he coerces other vampires to do so as well, stripping them of free will if they wish to survive under his rule; and c) he is sexually immoral and completely insane to boot. A and C influence each other a lot. There are non-villainous vampires who have also killed humans and now regret it, and some who accept humans as their prey without killing for pleasure like Conall does.

The story is in third-person, but it stays with the hero from beginning to end, like the majority of Harry Potter.

 

[ThinkerX]

Two possibilities leap to mind:

First off, a minor minion of the villian escapes his masters control somehow, takes off full tilt into the wilderness (or wherever) and has a brief, confusing encounter with the hero, who gets the impression there is somebody real bad out there, but not much more than that. Said minor minion either runs off again shortly after this encounter or just up and dies.

The second is related to the first: it sounds like your villian is making quite the nuisance of himself. At a minimum, that is going to generate rumors, probably wildly wrong. Your hero hears these rumors from some of the first people he meets.

 

[Ireth]

Hmmm. I think the second one might work out a little more smoothly than the first, but what if the first people he meets are humans? The hero doesn't meet another vampire until after he reaches the castle he'll be staying in for the first half of the novel. Even his parents, who have had past experience with vampires (the hero's grandfather was killed by one), have knowledge that is twisted and only half-true.

 

[ThinkerX]

How about this:

1) Minor minion of the villian turns renegade and takes off. Minion might or might not be a vampire.

2) Villian decides to take off after the minion and fatally punish him for his 'treason'?

3) Enroute to slaughter said minion, the villian has an encounter with the hero. Neither recognizes the other as a vampire. To the villian, the hero is a source of information - 'You, peasant, did you happen to see a howling armor clad idiot come galloping through here?' while the hero remembers the villian only as a arrogant jerk he meant on the road. (If your vampires automatically know each other for who they are, this might not work).

4) Later on, the hero, amidst other rumors, comes across one that sounds like the villian catching up with and killing his escapee.

Would something like that work?

 

[Ireth]

Thanks for the suggestion -- it's a good one, but what would work is already there, and what doesn't work... can't. Points 1 and 2 are part and parcel of the offscreen encounter, though without the "fatally" part. It happens while the hero is in his grave, so part 3 doesn't really work, and I don't think 4 would either.

 

[ThinkerX]

Ok...taking a look at your OP again, I think we might be misunderstanding each other.

I wasn't refering to the minor character you already have established, but a different figure altogether. This would mean two escapees (if that is what your minor character is), but given the way you describe your villian, I would imagine he would have quite a few subjects trying to escape.

I do find the 'in his grave' reference to be puzzling, though.

Or to put it another way, my idea meshed a bit too closely with your already established plot.

--------

Hmmm...that would still leave a wandering peddler or tinker dropping by the Hero's castle with the lastest wild rumors of a murderous lunatic with supernatural powers tearing up the countryside - which seems to be what your villian is doing, and that sort of thing would generate rumors.

 

[morfiction]

Spoiler for my books, but since I'm not selling any, I don't care.

I introduce the villain and the hero simultaneously during an equinox. After this, the hero only is only awake at day time while the villain is mostly around during the night.

The hero watches the villain murdering a female character who has feelings for them both. He doesn't realize its his brother doing it because the face is somehow made to look like that of a snake to his eyes. Probably some kind of hallucination set up by the villain so that he doesn't have to interact at all with the hero if he doesn't want to.

I didn't really plot out the story much but worked on it off and on for over a decade and a half. I sorta planned on following the number of days between the first equinox of the year with the second but decided against it eventually because I didn't want to be stuck with a timeline.

I do find the 'in his grave' reference to be puzzling, though.

Well I think the OP meant that the hero dies, is put in a grave, then awakens as a vampire in his grave...?

 

[Penpilot]

True. I guess I'm just afraid of the first half not looking interesting enough in light of the second, more dramatic villain-centric half. The hero has to deal with making his own way in the world, learning about being a vampire, making friends with an insane ghost who is very anti-vampire, and dealing with temptation when a human clan encroaches on the castle.

I think that's fine. The second 25% of book is generally what can be called the fun and games part of the story. What I mean by that is, for example in a superhero movie, its the part where the superhero learns what it's like to be a superhero. They learn about their super powers and try their hand at rescues. For a road trip movie it's where the hero hits the road and meets all those fun and interesting people. That seems to be the stuff you're describing. He's learning what it's like to be a vampire.

Even if I introduce my villain second-hand, it won't be until a few chapters in, after the hero meets the traumatized character. It worked with Lord of the Rings, where Frodo got bombarded with an infodump from Gandalf about who Sauron was and why he needed to be stopped, but that can't happen in my story if the traumatized vampire is so unwilling to speak. Even rumors wouldn't really work, since who would the hero hear the rumors from? He doesn't know any other vampires, and the humans who come along later wouldn't know about the villain at all.

If you want to drop the presence of the villain into the story earlier, it sounds like you have to insert someone or something with info into the story. Can the hero find a note or some sort telling item on the traumatized vamp's person? Can there be a brief encounter with a travelling/running away vamp, be they, good, bad, or in between? Or an encounter with a travlling/running away person who has either met the villain or heard rumors about him?

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

In my book the villain doesn't appear until the second or third to last chapter! Up till that point the good guys have had encounters with various allies of him, and heard a lot about him, then its going to be a mini surprise just how respectful and in some ways human he is. What you're doing Ireth is building the perfect situation for attatching fear to the antagonist, humans fear the unkown, and the traumatised person is the perfect embelishment. Are you trying to work out a way to get information from the traumatised victim to the protagonist? If so you could take them to some kind of mage-hypnotist to relax them magically into talking or something, kind of like a magical overly-direct psychiatrist or something hehe.

 

[Ireth]

Ok...taking a look at your OP again, I think we might be misunderstanding each other.

I wasn't refering to the minor character you already have established, but a different figure altogether. This would mean two escapees (if that is what your minor character is), but given the way you describe your villian, I would imagine he would have quite a few subjects trying to escape.

I do find the 'in his grave' reference to be puzzling, though.

Or to put it another way, my idea meshed a bit too closely with your already established plot.

--------

Hmmm...that would still leave a wandering peddler or tinker dropping by the Hero's castle with the lastest wild rumors of a murderous lunatic with supernatural powers tearing up the countryside - which seems to be what your villian is doing, and that sort of thing would generate rumors.

I don't know, most of the villain's minions are either a) as evil as he is, b) too scared to act against him, or c) dead because they did act against him. The one escapee is an exception.

As for the 'in his grave' reference, morfiction is correct. The hero starts out as a human, but is turned into a couple of pages into the story, and the aforesaid minor character's escape happens during the three days and nights that the hero is dead and buried, before he comes back as a vampire.

The villain doesn't leave his lair too often -- he has his minions go out to gather food sources (i.e. humans) and bring other vampires down into the lair. The only times he leaves in this story are when the minor character escapes, and later when the hero escapes too.

I think that's fine. The second 25% of book is generally what can be called the fun and games part of the story. What I mean by that is, for example in a superhero movie, its the part where the superhero learns what it's like to be a superhero. They learn about their super powers and try their hand at rescues. For a road trip movie it's where the hero hits the road and meets all those fun and interesting people. That seems to be the stuff you're describing. He's learning what it's like to be a vampire.

That's a good point. Though I'm thinking most of the learning could take place in only a few short scenes -- the only really important thing the hero learns from the traumatized vampire is that drinking from human is bad and will corrupt a vampire physically and mentally, as the traumatized vampire demonstrates vividly when the hero sees him in the sunlight. (And no, he does NOT sparkle!)

If you want to drop the presence of the villain into the story earlier, it sounds like you have to insert someone or something with info into the story. Can the hero find a note or some sort telling item on the traumatized vamp's person? Can there be a brief encounter with a travelling/running away vamp, be they, good, bad, or in between? Or an encounter with a travlling/running away person who has either met the villain or heard rumors about him?

I doubt the villain would leave a note of any kind on his victim; if he did, the traumatized vampire would probably get rid of it ASAP. The other options are plausible though. I'll give it some thought.

In my book the villain doesn't appear until the second or third to last chapter! Up till that point the good guys have had encounters with various allies of him, and heard a lot about him, then its going to be a mini surprise just how respectful and in some ways human he is. What you're doing Ireth is building the perfect situation for attatching fear to the antagonist, humans fear the unkown, and the traumatised person is the perfect embelishment. Are you trying to work out a way to get information from the traumatised victim to the protagonist? If so you could take them to some kind of mage-hypnotist to relax them magically into talking or something, kind of like a magical overly-direct psychiatrist or something hehe.

Thanks for the idea, Aidan, but unfortunately there are no mages in my story, and I don't intend to add any. The closest thing they have are the villain's Fae-enchanted mind-controlling bagpipes, which he uses to keep his minions in line; and the hero's Fae-enchanted, people-summoning bagpipes, which he doesn't use for that purpose at all. If the traumatized vampire saw the hero's pipes, which used to belong to the villain, he'd freak out when they trigger memories of the villain. I could use that to drop some tantalizing hints about the villain... that'd be fun. *evil grin*

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

Thanks for the idea, Aidan, but unfortunately there are no mages in my story, and I don't intend to add any. The closest thing they have are the villain's Fae-enchanted mind-controlling bagpipes, which he uses to keep his minions in line; and the hero's Fae-enchanted, people-summoning bagpipes, which he doesn't use for that purpose at all. If the traumatized vampire saw the hero's pipes, which used to belong to the villain, he'd freak out when they trigger memories of the villain. I could use that to drop some tantalizing hints about the villain... that'd be fun. *evil grin*

Bagpipes eh? I like it.