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Too much Dialouge in chapters/paragraphs

Discussion in 'Writing Discussions' started by Archunt3r, May 30, 2020.

  1. Archunt3r

    Archunt3r Dreamer

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    Hi everyone,

    Not sure if this is the right spot, but how do you all know if there is too much dialogue in your paragraphs? I am rewriting chapter 1 of my novel and there seems to be a lot of talking, and I'm not sure if it should be lessened or not, what are your thoughts?
     
  2. Gospodin

    Gospodin Minstrel

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    This is hard to address, but I can think of a couple of scenarios.

    Are your characters infodumping at the reader via the dialogue? It's a kind of narrative intrusion, when we use a character to spew information in a way that feels unnatural or out of context, perhaps because the narrative mode (narrative POV) one has chosen doesn't really allow for the deployment of said information unless some character literally spits it out. That can certainly be one situation.

    Another is when a character is pretty much monologuing, and perhaps the monologue has a purpose that is reasonable, but we fail to break it up. Just one long monologue with no actions, no movements, no tossing of hair, no changing of seats, no bringing of a cup of wine, etc. The setting starts to fade in the mind of the reader. That's another instance that comes to mind.
     
  3. Archunt3r

    Archunt3r Dreamer

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    yeah, when I look at what I've got there are story elements, as say person A has asked something along the lines of, can you tell me what you know of x people. and then person B goes yes, something about them, but then goes and asks have they got what they needed for a job.
     
  4. Gospodin

    Gospodin Minstrel

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    Well, depending on how it's deployed and into how much detail Person B goes, I feel like this could possibly, maybe be what I mentioned in the first situation. I've not read it so I've no idea how into detail Person B goes with respect to describing People X in question, but if he's delivering a short ethnography concerning People X, that could be a culprit. It pushes the line of plausibility and could be (all conjecture here) what's making you question.
     
  5. skip.knox

    skip.knox toujours gai, archie Moderator

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    >there seems to be a lot of talking,

    "a lot" of talking isn't necessarily a bad thing. When you say "a lot" are you really saying there is too much? What about the dialog is making you think that?

    What is happening in this dialog? You said, someone asks someone else about a people and there's a reply. Is that the whole of the dialog for chapter one? Let's assume it is. The next question is, what's at stake in this? Does Person A need to know this in order to avoid death? To know how to arm themselves? Just curious about people? What purpose is the dialog serving?

    It's rarely about too much, whether of dialog or description or narration. It's more about moving the story along, engaging the reader, and serving the needs and goals of the characters in the scene. If that's being done, you can have nothing but dialog, at least in theory.
     
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  6. Vaporo

    Vaporo Inkling

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    I don't think that too much dialogue is necessarily a problem in and of itself. I think the problem is learning to properly break it up with dialog tags and intermittent actions. (He said, She replied, Martin began to absentmindedly pull at a loose thread in his shirt, etc.) Your main goal should be sure that the dialogue is interesting and properly contextualized for your reader.
     
  7. Penpilot

    Penpilot Staff Article Team

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    Sometimes scenes are dialogue heavy. Other times it's narrative heavy. Other times, still, it's more balanced. There's nothing wrong with any one of those. It's not necessarily amount of each ingredient you put in. It's putting in the right amount and using it in a way to achieve what you want with the scene and have it feel natural.

    A few things you should be careful of.

    1- Talking heads. Be careful about having two characters standing/sitting there spouting dialogue to one another and not be doing anything else. It makes it tougher to make the scene interesting because things are very static. There's less to work with to engaging the reader's imagination. Have the characters be doing something. If that something directly relates to a specific pieces of information you need to get across to the reader, all the better, but it doesn't necessarily have to relate.

    For example, it's more natural for information about the warp drive to come out while doing maintenance on the warp drive rather than while baking. Though, the latter can work, too. You just have to be more creative in order to make it come out feeling natural and not like the info is dropped in out of left field.

    2 - Watch out for as-you-know-Bob type dialogue. This is where one character asks a short question that they already know the answer to in order to tee up an info dump. OR in some cases, worse, the info dump isn't even prompted with the short question.

    For example.

    "Hey, Ted, how about those Jeffyeries Tubes?"

    "Yeah, how about them Bob. They run a thousand feet in either direction and crisscross through all the decks. A great place to hide if we are ever boarded by Romulans. We could fight a guerrilla war using these if we had to, using them to enter the armory undetected and gather supplies. No one could ever track us through them. We know them best.


    These are signs that maybe the writer isn't being thoughtful/creative enough in designing their scene, and/or not getting into the POV character's head and using introspection to get things across in a more natural feeling way.

    There are probably more things to be wary of, but these are the two most obvious in my eyes.
     
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  8. I think, if this is your opening chapter, you also have to consider if your conversation/exposition balance works to achieve the important functions of a good first chapter. That is, to hook readers into your story and to create an interest of some sort that connects them to your MC.

    I'll assume here that one or both of the people talking are your MCs. So, off the top of my head, here are ways dialogue heavy openings can hook me as a reader.

    Do they make me wonder about the situation/object/event they are discussing or that is happening around them and create a sense off wonder without info dumping?

    Is their conversation relatable enough but still lead me to ask questions about what will happen next/and or create some sort of mystery?

    Is there conflict between the characters? It can be subtle, a life long dislike one hides from the other that is revealed through internal thoughts and subtle physical beats. A friendly street corner conversation without some sort of friction or foreshadowing is not great for a first chapter unless it leads to something big at the end of the chapter. So, say two blokes are having a chat where the MC reveals their internal distrust of the other character all throughout, even though the other character is being ever so gracious, complimentary and kind. This can work when, at their parting, the MC realizes his coin pouch is missing or, better yet, that looking at the clock tower, what he thought surely could not have been more than a five minute chat, actually took three hours.

    Stephen King is a master at this. I can't think of any one story off hand but he has more than few that begin in the midst of the daily life of his characters interacting before the other shoe drops. It's never exposition though, just setting scene and characters dispositions and relationships before the shoe drops.

    Maybe that's my point, If there is a conversation like that, something should happen, am eye opening moment for the reader that is not an info dump, but creates mystery and makes them turn the page to read on.

    Between the back and forth of dialogue, am I given enough of the MC through either (depending on the POV) their own thoughts or the narrator's telling to draw me in further than their conversation alone could? Am I shown aspects of some of the MC's traits: empathy, betrayal, self loathing, self-righteousness, a class division, piousness, shame, arrogance, etc etc these can be achieved in physical beats and internal dialogue during the conversation.

    Hoping any of that helps! Good luck!
     
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  9. Archunt3r

    Archunt3r Dreamer

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    Thanks all for the help and ideas, I'd like to post the first 500 odd words of what I've started with the rewrite which brought up this question but I am not sure if there is a place for me to do that here?
     
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  10. KaeSeven7

    KaeSeven7 Dreamer

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    It depends on what the writing includes.

    An argument, for example, would be great if there was a lot of back-and-forth short sentences.
    Introducing/explaining part of your story's history may need that bit of explaining through dialogue that you can't avoid, but as long as you keep an eye on how much is necessary and how much can be revealed in more secretive and surprising ways, this can be easily allowed.
    Generally I'd say if your scene is fast-paced, remember your character won't be taking in everything or maybe even thinking properly enough to speak. If your scene is quite slow at the moment, they may take in more than usual from their surroundings, and maybe then they'll notice things that don't need explaining via someone else.

    Also, if you are finding yourself getting bored by rewriting it - or you are very obviously noticing the amount of dialogue as you've mentioned, consider that your reader would pick up in this too. So unless you are extremely self critical and always see your writing like this, yes, there probably is too much dialogue.
     
  11. S J Lee

    S J Lee Sage

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    Need to see it before I can say there is too much dialogue...

    It can be great both ways. EG in movies -
    Compare dialogue in Pulp Fiction "Do you know what they call a quarterpounder with cheese in France?"
    vs
    Mad Max (the road warrior) - Mel Gibson has 16 lines, and two of them are "I'm just here for the gasoline." (!)
     
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  12. A. E. Lowan

    A. E. Lowan Forum Mom Leadership

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    Go ahead and post your excerpt here, hon.

    One thing to remember about dialogue is that it's characters talking with all of the boring stuff removed. So, no ah's and um's and such. If you find you're using a lot of filler sounds in your dialogue, then yes, you've got too much.
     
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  13. Mythopoet

    Mythopoet Auror

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    When you read it yourself, do you find it compelling? Do you feel eager to continue the story? Do you enjoy the way it is written?

    If you answer no, then work on finding a better way to write it. If you answer yes, then it's good and you shouldn't worry about it. All that really matters is that you write your story the way you would like to read it.
     
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  14. Archunt3r

    Archunt3r Dreamer

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    I don't know if this is too much for an excerpt here, but I feel if I don't post the whole convo thing it might sound weird, so I hope this isn't too many words. And thank you for taking the time to reply.

    "You're late!" Conlan shouted as the door to the workshop slammed shut as Raein walked past, grabbing his leather apron off the nearby wall peg.

    "Sorry, It's Chaos out there. It seems like there are more people here than normal this time to celebrate the harvest festival."

    Smiling, Conlan walked over to the forge. "Chaos favors the bold, my boy. We can either make our fortune here or not, now come here and help me move these crates."

    Moving the crates of coal and raw metal into the storage room with grunts and curses, Raein could feel the excitement building up as the festival was only a few days away.


    As he loaded more fuel into the dying forges, the hiss of burning coals as it kissed the cold chunks was somewhat soothing for Raein. Walking behind the forges, he found that the bellows had been removed, shaking his head he grabbed them from the nearby shelving. With each push of his muscular arms, the sound of rushing air sprang life into the coals as the dull orange turned into a vibrant flash of yellow. It was as if the rising sun was here, scaring away the cold and harsh darkness. Still, as it finally went dark again, he watched a single piece of ash dance of a breeze that had crept through an open window before it disappeared. Grabbing yesterday's work off the workbench, he quickly inspected it before watching as Conlan pulled a glowing sword out of the forge, placing it on the anvil.

    "Could you tell me more of the Arcean empire?" Raein asked as he put his work in the glowing coals.


    "I only know what I've learned from my time with the imperial army," Said Conlan, "Which then isn't too much. We've fought them a few times, and they are fearsome warriors who hold onto the notion of honor and prefer a glorious death in battle. They are a strange bunch of people, but they did cause us some issues." He put what he was working on into a nearby water bucket. The red hot metal let out a searing hiss and sputter as it made contact with the water and cooled off. "Now, have you finished with the wheel braces for Kaithian's wagon?"

    Raein nodded, "I've put them out back for when he brings the wagon in."

    Hours passed as they prepared nails, pliers, and crowbars before Kaithian finally came round the corner on his bouncing cart. His long flowing blonde hair framed his square face and deep emerald-colored eyes.



    "Conlan, Raein!" he shouted out to them, giving a quick wave. Pulling on the reins to make the horses stop by the more massive warehouse doors.

    "Kaithian, you finally made it. This cart is terrible," Raein said in disgust as he walked around the cart. " I don't understand why you bought this?"

    Kaithian's eyes narrowed before easing their glare; he came and put an arm around Raein's shoulder. "It's simple. Business, imagine all the possibilities that can come from running a cart."

    Raein shrugged off his friends, joking embrace and glared at him.

    "Your habits of jumping into things without thinking anything through always baffles me. Now give us the payment so we can fix this horrible thing." holding out a hand, Raein waited for Kaithian to hand over a coin purse.



    Begrudgingly Kaithian handed over his coin pouch; the clinking of coins echoed between them in their silence.

    "Now, if you gentlemen will excuse me. I have a beautiful young lady waiting for me to share lunch with," said Kaithian as he pushed past Conlan and Raein.

    They watched him walk from the alley, before grabbing the crowbars and ripping out the old nails.

    "Are... Are you guys expecting someone!" Raein and Conlan looked up as Kaithian came back down the alley almost at a run.

    Sighing and putting his head into his hands, he said, "What have you done now?"

    "Nothing, as I've said before." Two guards had rounded the corner and made their way towards the group.



    The clinking of chain mail echoed through the alley, as the guards came to a halt before the group. The midday sun bounced off their helms, giving off an eerie glare.

    "Master Conlan, it's good to see you again," said the soldier who carried a satchel over his shoulder.

    "Oh, Artemis." Conlan smiled, "Well, I'll be. Look at you all grown up; it has been a while."

    Artemis smiled, taking off the helm and put it under his arm.

    "It has been a while; I wish our reunion would have been under better circumstances." He sighed, "We have just received word of trouble in the north, and I think it's going to worsen before it gets any better. The emperor has ordered all the capable blacksmiths to start making weapons."

    Artemis pulled out a rolled-up piece of parchment and held it out for Conlan.



    Grabbing the outstretched parchment, Conlan tore the seal off, rolled it out, and read it in stunned silence.



    'Blacksmiths of the empire. Your country needs your service to protect our troops and borders. We were hoping you could make a hundred swords within the month, and after that until this fighting has stopped.



    Kurt Von Hargin, Minister of Military affairs'



    He let out a sigh before looking at the two men in front of him.

    "I agree if only this reunion had better circumstances. Thank you for dropping this off." Artemis nodded solemnly and put his helm back on before nudging his friend and walked away.



    Raein watched the guards round the corner before looking to Conlan.

    "So, what was that about?" he inquired curiously, Conlan handed it over to him. "Well, this is an interesting predicament. It'll mean we'll be busy from now on."

    Conlan nodded, "Yes, it is. Now Kaithian, if you've finished being here, we have work to get done if you want this any time soon."

    Kaithian held up his hands, "Oh... Uh, yes, I'll be leaving now, again, that is."

    Raein and Conlan shook their heads as Kaithian walked away, and they turned back to his cart, trying to figure out if they had enough time in the rest of the day to get it finished.
     
  15. S J Lee

    S J Lee Sage

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    Hi there.
    Just my humble opinion...
    Some parts of the dialogue are fine, some are not - a bit too much exposition in one short chunk.
    There is a time to have two people explaining things to each other - when ONE OF THEM DOES NOT ALREADY KNOW. EG, explaining what a pizza is to my wife sounds silly. EG, done right, you can sneak your exposition in. Of course, it is really the writer explaining to the audience, not one character to another

    Look at the poker scene on Casino Royale - The old man explaining the way it works to the woman eg at 1.01 - this is really exposition... it JUST ABOUT works...
    This is about as much as you might get away with in non-forced dialogue...





    Some sentences are too long, maybe?
    Some things repeated, some things way longer than they need to be, somethings can be spelled out later. Some things don't look natural - that (warrant?) letter asking nicely instead of ordering doesn't sit right.

    Now, maybe this thread would be better in the "Critique wanted" forum... but I will give my thoughts in a little bit, at least on some of it.
    REmember that I am just one guy on the internet, feel free to accept or reject BUT when a pattern develops, pay attention to it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
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  16. S J Lee

    S J Lee Sage

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    ok, so here is the first chunk, done as I would do it.... feel free to disregard. I think I've got your ideas, stated much faster. Some people think I am too brief.
    I've removed many words, not JUST from the dialogue. Read both versions and compare, see what you think. Again, I am just some guy on the internet. Get many opinions. Does a pattern emerge?


    "You're late!" Conlan shouted. The door to the workshop slammed shut and Raein walked past, his leather apron now in hand.

    "Sorry, I never knew the harvest festival would bring such crowds. Such chaos."

    Smiling, Conlan walked over to the forge. "Chaos favors the bold, my boy. There's money to be made. Now, help me move these crates."

    Grunting as he heaved coal and raw metal into the storage room, Raein felt the excitement building. The festival was three days away.

    As he refuelled the flames, the hiss of burning coals soothed Raein. He got to work with the bellows, his muscular arms pumping them hard, the sound of rushing air pouring invisible life into the coals. The dull orange flashed vibrant yellow. It was as if the rising sun was there, scaring away the harsh darkness. Hhe watched a piece of ash dance in a breeze that had crept through an open window before it disappeared. EXPLAIN? IS HE STILL PUMPING BELLOWS OR NOT? Grabbing yesterday's work off the workbench, he inspected it, then waatched Conlan pull a glowing sword out of the forge, placing it on the anvil.

    "You never finished your tale of the Arceans." Raein said, staring at the glowing coals.

    "All I have are my war-stories," said Conlan, "and imperial soldiers aren't picked for their brains. But the Arceans are fearsome warriors. Honourable hot-heads, seeking a glorious death in battle.” He spat into the fire and watched the spittle dance into nothingness. “Troublesome idiots.” He put the hot steel into a water bucket. The searing hiss drowned out all conversation for three breaths. "Are the wheel braces for Kaithian's wagon finished?"

    Raein nodded. "Out back, waiting."

    Hours passed as they prepared nails, pliers, and crowbars before Kaithian finally drone DROVE? round the corner. His long, flowing blonde (CAREFUL! DOES BLONDE SOUND FEMININE?) hair framed his square face and deep, emerald-colored eyes.

    He waved. "Conlan, Raein!" he shouted, pulling on the reins to make the horses stop by the massive warehouse doors.

    "Kaithian, you finally made it. This cart is terrible," Raein said, spitting in disgust as he walked around the vehicle. "Why bring us this dog-dirt?"

    Kaithian's eyes narrowed before easing their glare; he came and put an arm around Raein's shoulder. "It's simple. Business. Imagine the possibilities a cart provides."

    Raein shrugged off his friend's embrace. "You always jump without checking the water's depth. Payment first, you know the rules.”

    “But we are friends!”

    “Money first, repairs second, exceptions never.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
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  17. Archunt3r

    Archunt3r Dreamer

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    Awesome thanks for your thought, I do find I like to also be very descriptive and all that I've had that mentioned a lot, and it's hard to get out of that habit cause I can never find fewer words to explain how I want it to sound, I guess I could still have all the descriptions just need to find the right balance. I have also been using other programs to help with the subjects in writing that I suck at haha mainly grammar and punctuation. Also, a good question is what sort of patterns would or should i look for?
     
  18. skip.knox

    skip.knox toujours gai, archie Moderator

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    So, your question was whether there was too much dialogue in your paragraphs. The short answer is no. I think what you were really asking is, was there too much dialogue in your *scene*. Again, not really, but that doesn't mean the dialogue is carrying its weight. My comments below are in italics.


    "You're late!" Conlan shouted as the door to the workshop slammed shut as Raein walked past, grabbing his leather apron off the nearby wall peg.

    "Sorry, It's Chaos out there. It seems like there are more people here than normal this time to celebrate the harvest festival."

    Smiling, Conlan walked over to the forge. "Chaos favors the bold, my boy. We can either make our fortune here or not, now come here and help me move these crates."

    Conlan yells at Raein for being late, but nothing comes of that. He doesn't act angry; being late has no consequence. So that bit of dialogue does no work. This is followed by an exchange about excessive crowds (which also has no follow-up) and a bit of economic philosophy. Both of which are tossed aside because we're moving crates. So, what is this bit about? Crowds? Work habits? Crates? The reader is left with dialogue that doesn't have any impact.


    Moving the crates of coal and raw metal into the storage room with grunts and curses, Raein could feel the excitement building up as the festival was only a few days away.

    Though this isn't dialogue, the same considerations apply. Why are we moving crates? If the action itself is of interest, then the paragraph doesn't devote enough time to the action. But the second sentence is unrelated to the first. But there, we don't share Raein's excitement because we're shown no reason for excitement. In fact, last we heard, Raein characterized it not as exciting but as chaotic.

    As he loaded more fuel into the dying forges, the hiss of burning coals as it kissed the cold chunks was somewhat soothing for Raein. Walking behind the forges, he found that the bellows had been removed, shaking his head he grabbed them from the nearby shelving. With each push of his muscular arms, the sound of rushing air sprang life into the coals as the dull orange turned into a vibrant flash of yellow. It was as if the rising sun was here, scaring away the cold and harsh darkness. Still, as it finally went dark again, he watched a single piece of ash dance of a breeze that had crept through an open window before it disappeared. Grabbing yesterday's work off the workbench, he quickly inspected it before watching as Conlan pulled a glowing sword out of the forge, placing it on the anvil.

    "Could you tell me more of the Arcean empire?" Raein asked as he put his work in the glowing coals.

    So, a bit of activity around the forge, then this question completely out of the blue. Because the question doesn't come from within Raien--he was thinking about forges and smithing, not empires--the question doesn't mean much to us either.

    "I only know what I've learned from my time with the imperial army," Said Conlan, "Which then isn't too much. We've fought them a few times, and they are fearsome warriors who hold onto the notion of honor and prefer a glorious death in battle. They are a strange bunch of people, but they did cause us some issues." He put what he was working on into a nearby water bucket. The red hot metal let out a searing hiss and sputter as it made contact with the water and cooled off. "Now, have you finished with the wheel braces for Kaithian's wagon?"

    Some issues? What issues? It can be ok to raise a question for the reader to create a bit of tension, but the reader expects the question to be answered. This one isn't, so again the dialogue is basically thrown away. It needs to mean something, either to the plot or to the characters.

    Raein nodded, "I've put them out back for when he brings the wagon in."

    Hours passed as they prepared nails, pliers, and crowbars before Kaithian finally came round the corner on his bouncing cart. His long flowing blonde hair framed his square face and deep emerald-colored eyes.

    Hours pass, so what is above is all there is for this scene. But what's the scene about? In what way did the dialogue reveal something about the two characters? In what way did it advance the plot?

    "Conlan, Raein!" he shouted out to them, giving a quick wave. Pulling on the reins to make the horses stop by the more massive warehouse doors.

    "Kaithian, you finally made it. This cart is terrible," Raein said in disgust as he walked around the cart. " I don't understand why you bought this?"

    Kaithian's eyes narrowed before easing their glare; he came and put an arm around Raein's shoulder. "It's simple. Business, imagine all the possibilities that can come from running a cart."

    Raein shrugged off his friends, joking embrace and glared at him.

    "Your habits of jumping into things without thinking anything through always baffles me. Now give us the payment so we can fix this horrible thing." holding out a hand, Raein waited for Kaithian to hand over a coin purse.



    Begrudgingly Kaithian handed over his coin pouch; the clinking of coins echoed between them in their silence.

    "Now, if you gentlemen will excuse me. I have a beautiful young lady waiting for me to share lunch with," said Kaithian as he pushed past Conlan and Raein.

    They watched him walk from the alley, before grabbing the crowbars and ripping out the old nails.

    "Are... Are you guys expecting someone!" Raein and Conlan looked up as Kaithian came back down the alley almost at a run.

    Sighing and putting his head into his hands, he said, "What have you done now?"

    "Nothing, as I've said before." Two guards had rounded the corner and made their way towards the group.



    The clinking of chain mail echoed through the alley, as the guards came to a halt before the group. The midday sun bounced off their helms, giving off an eerie glare.

    "Master Conlan, it's good to see you again," said the soldier who carried a satchel over his shoulder.

    "Oh, Artemis." Conlan smiled, "Well, I'll be. Look at you all grown up; it has been a while."

    Artemis smiled, taking off the helm and put it under his arm.

    "It has been a while; I wish our reunion would have been under better circumstances." He sighed, "We have just received word of trouble in the north, and I think it's going to worsen before it gets any better. The emperor has ordered all the capable blacksmiths to start making weapons."

    Artemis pulled out a rolled-up piece of parchment and held it out for Conlan.



    Grabbing the outstretched parchment, Conlan tore the seal off, rolled it out, and read it in stunned silence.



    'Blacksmiths of the empire. Your country needs your service to protect our troops and borders. We were hoping you could make a hundred swords within the month, and after that until this fighting has stopped.



    Kurt Von Hargin, Minister of Military affairs'



    He let out a sigh before looking at the two men in front of him.

    "I agree if only this reunion had better circumstances. Thank you for dropping this off." Artemis nodded solemnly and put his helm back on before nudging his friend and walked away.

    The section above seems to be the key to the scene. Conlan gets drafted. The dialog is sort of not needed. Either let the guard tell Conlan he's drafted, or have him hand over the document silently and let Conlan read it (to us). As it stands, it's redundant.

    More importantly, though, we get no reaction either from Conlan or from Raein. No shock, no outrage, no resigned acceptance, fear, no anything at all. So in some ways, there's need for more rather than less dialog.

    Raein watched the guards round the corner before looking to Conlan.

    "So, what was that about?" he inquired curiously, Conlan handed it over to him. "Well, this is an interesting predicament. It'll mean we'll be busy from now on."h

    Conlan nodded, "Yes, it is. Now Kaithian, if you've finished being here, we have work to get done if you want this any time soon."

    Kaithian held up his hands, "Oh... Uh, yes, I'll be leaving now, again, that is."

    Raein and Conlan shook their heads as Kaithian walked away, and they turned back to his cart, trying to figure out if they had enough time in the rest of the day to get it finished.


    In summary, I don't see too much dialogue here.
     
  19. S J Lee

    S J Lee Sage

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    Again, I am just some guy on the internet. Sure, improve your grammar, but commas in or out can be fixed by any English teacher for 10 or 20 dollars an hour, don't worry.

    Don't rely on programs too much. WRITE AND KEEP WRITING. If you have any ability, it will start to shine. THEN SHOW IT to several people who like the genre. On here, if you like. We have a Discord group going for more chatty advice, it is going well. PM me if you want in. LISTEN TO ADVICE - any one person can be ignored, but a pattern developing among many readers cannot be ignored. If you want other people to give you advice, be prepared to read their stuff in return. It's only polite. It's ok if you feel unsure what is technically good or bad - just tell them what is good or boring - or is ALL of it good?

    Slip thought the "Arceans" bit seemed to be doing very little for the story...? Me, I thought you were trying to put in necessary exposition, but it wasn't in the right place (maybe in the pub after work is better?) and was a bit wordy
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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  20. skip.knox

    skip.knox toujours gai, archie Moderator

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    >English teacher for 10 or 20 dollars an hour
    Yeesh. I know nothing negative was meant here, but one who can teach one of the world's most difficult languages really ought to get paid better than that! :)

    S J Lee's advice is solid. Write. Show it to others to get feedback. Learn to use feedback. That's pretty much the core of every writing course out there!
     
    Vicki27 and S J Lee like this.
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