What do you think is a good chapter length for a fantasy novel nowadays?

[Archon of Cringe]

>I heard that readers can't pay attention for more than 15 pages
Where did you hear that? What about the source led you to take it seriously?

The person who taught a writing class I attended.

LOL. It depends.

This and everyone's answers is making me realize how much I've been caught in a rut and ruining my fun writing. I think it's also a matter of developing the kind of writer I want to be as well as my style, something I haven't decided upon fully.

 

[Rhondazvous]

And well written can be defined as how well the chapter fits in with the whole book. The length of the chapters depends on the pace and tone the writer is trying to achieve. If the writer achieved what he intended, then there will always be readers out there who will appreciate it.

 

[LieutenantWolf34]

It really depends but a good amount of the stuff I have read I think has been around 30-50 pages though I might be wrong.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

My usual chapter length varies from anywhere between 10 K and 20 K words. (I don't know if that's a great average) Usually they round out to about 11 K when they start feeling 'long' for me as a writer. It really depends on how many scenes are in that particular chapter and how long I want each scene to be. The only time I wind up with a 12+ K chapter is when there's a boat load of dialogue in multiple scenes. My biggest weakness is that my characters tend to be VERY chatty lol

 

[Prince of Spires]

In the end it's a matter of style and personal preference.

I see. Let me add on to this. How would I write to an inciting incident in the first chapter? The books I am reading now don't have those until the 20th-50th page but have a series of short chapters establishing the world and characters.

I wanted to do that originally, but I was advised against it here and to start the story with the inciting incident. Sometimes I struggle with fitting all the worldbuilding and character buildup into 4000 words, let alone 300 for something.

Remember that you don't need to do all the worldbuilding in the first 4000 words. If anything, don't do that. The worldbuilding you do in the beginning should be enough to explain what is going on for the character at the start, but no more. Also, worldbuilding isn't giving 2 pages of encyclopedia entries about your world. It's about your characters interacting with the world to show what the world is like. Don't info-dump on your readers at the start of your story.

What page you put the inciting incident depends on so many factors, that there isn't really any answer you can get that makes sense. For starters, is your story 200 pages or 1.000? Those are very different beasts. If a reader picks up a 1.000 page thome, he goes in expecting a slower build-up. Page 50 is only 5% into a 1.000 page novel, and therefore a fine place to put your inciting incident. A 200 page thriller should probably have an explosion or death on page 1 (or both).

How do you make the readers care? The same as with everything else. Make a character the reader cares about and make the character care about what's happening. Don't expect your reader to cry on p5 over a death important to your protagonist. But they should understand if the protagonist cares. That's enough to get the story going.

I personally think there is too much emphasis on the inciting incident. It doesn't have to be a big thing at all. It's not the moment the reader suddenly starts caring about the story. It's simply what kicks off the adventure. But your reader should care about the character long before that happens, or you could event skip the incident altogether and start after it happened and just fill in the reader later.

 

[Ankari]

And well written can be defined as how well the chapter fits in with the whole book. The length of the chapters depends on the pace and tone the writer is trying to achieve. If the writer achieved what he intended, then there will always be readers out there who will appreciate it.

This implies that how you organize your writing determines how well written it is. This is incorrect. There are books that have no chapters in them at all and the fact has no bearing on the writing.

OP is getting lost in the weeds of writing. From how I'm reading their post(s), they have hit a plateau and grasp for more concrete measurables to rekindle their growth.

I've been there.

At the end of the day, none of these technical discussions really impact the story's quality. It boils down to good writing. It's the say all and end all.

The problem is that good writing isn't measurable. There is a baseline, somewhere beneath the murky waters of doubt and fear, and once breached, becomes more subjective. The key is to write in a way that is appealing to more people sharing the same subjective criteria (if you write for others).

I understand the pushback to defend their sentiment. We all want this journey to be forthright and achievable. It's not.

Keep practicing and keep putting your work out there for open and honest critique. The best skillset isn't how to organize your words but how to process criticism for your growth.

 

[Rhondazvous]

In the end it's a matter of style and personal preference.

Remember that you don't need to do all the worldbuilding in the first 4000 words. If anything, don't do that. The worldbuilding you do in the beginning should be enough to explain what is going on for the character at the start, but no more. Also, worldbuilding isn't giving 2 pages of encyclopedia entries about your world. It's about your characters interacting with the world to show what the world is like. Don't info-dump on your readers at the start of your story.

What page you put the inciting incident depends on so many factors, that there isn't really any answer you can get that makes sense. For starters, is your story 200 pages or 1.000? Those are very different beasts. If a reader picks up a 1.000 page thome, he goes in expecting a slower build-up. Page 50 is only 5% into a 1.000 page novel, and therefore a fine place to put your inciting incident. A 200 page thriller should probably have an explosion or death on page 1 (or both).

How do you make the readers care? The same as with everything else. Make a character the reader cares about and make the character care about what's happening. Don't expect your reader to cry on p5 over a death important to your protagonist. But they should understand if the protagonist cares. That's enough to get the story going.

I personally think there is too much emphasis on the inciting incident. It doesn't have to be a big thing at all. It's not the moment the reader suddenly starts caring about the story. It's simply what kicks off the adventure. But your reader should care about the character long before that happens, or you could event skip the incident altogether and start after it happened and just fill in the reader later.

There you go! World building is about showing the character reacting to his world. The world is real to the reader because it’s real to the character.

 

[David@2011]

I would say around 20 pages.

 

[JBCrowson]

I heard that readers can't pay attention for more than 15 pages. Google tells me 5000 words is the max. What is a good length to strive for?

I don't think there is one size fits all. My chapters range from 1 to 20 pages in length. More important I think is having a clear idea of what the chapter is going to do. In fantasy I think of world building, plot development, character development, theme exposition as the pillars, and aim to have chapters progress at least two of those pillars.

 

[MamaMorrigan]

I heard that readers can't pay attention for more than 15 pages. Google tells me 5000 words is the max. What is a good length to strive for?

So many things factor into this, it's impossible to give a 'right answer'. Some books need longer, some need shorter, and it's almost entirely a creative decision. But 5000 is very heavy, kind of regardless. if you need an easy variance, I'd say 1.5 to 4k with exceptions is a decent guideline.

 

[CrystalD]

It depends on what you're comfy writing. I started by writing longer chapters, around 3000 to 4000 words. When I went to reread them, I gotbored and started chuning into smaller, 1590ish words scenes that I find move better, and I prefer readin. But really it's what the story needs, and what you need to pace the story at an even tempo.

 

[L.L. Maurizi]

I would decide your chapter-division more based on story than word-count.
End the chapter when there is a reasonable moment to move to another portion of the story (the end of a segment, a cliffhanger, switching to another character or location, etc).

You will find that, in most books written after 1980, a chapter will have a reasonable length (like the parameters you mentioned). Very descriptive chapters, like long battle scenes may be exceptions but they are quite rare.

If you end the chapters when they need to be ended, I am confident you will notice you'll almost always be between 500-3k words

 

[Ban]

My current project has chapters that span 300 to 3000 words, while one that I have on the back burner has chapters ranging from 3000 to 5500 words. I'd echo others in saying it all depends on the work and the writing style.

 

[Dragon tea]

But how do I get the audience to care about the moment everything changes if they don't know who the main character is, what this world is about, and why this change means something to the main character?

I can't give any input as a writer, but as someone who reads a lot, I don't mind not having all the backstory from the first chapter. If the story is intriguing, then I keep reading and think Oh, I wonder who this character is or what happened to lead to these decisions, etc. On another note, I will also say that putting off sharing the details for too long is frustrating.
I am reading a book right now that had the main character bringing up a friend in their mind often, that would snap them out of a daze and poor decision, but then talk about the emotion it invoked then the mc would think something like "I can't think about her now, it's too emotional." and that continued for so many chapters I figured I'd never find out what happened, almost half way through the book or something.
It wasn't enough to make me stop reading mind you, but I would voice my frustration aloud with a sigh, growl or expletive haha

 

[pmmg]

Nothing better than a reader who give's their opinion.

 

[Dragon tea]

Nothing better than a reader who give's their opinion.

I mean, hopefully I will someday have writer imput as well haha

 

[pmmg]

Well, that will happen if you want it. But with every bit of growth, something is lost. When you move from reader to writer, you wont be able to look at reading the same. Not dissimilar to a builder, who when looking at houses sees all the framing and ductwork behind the walls, a writer see all the mechanics of writing when looking at other's stories, and cannot simply return to just reading it anymore. For writers, its a little vexing, getting the opinion of other writers is getting all the nuts and bolts as they see it, getting the opinion of just a reader is to see if the illusion worked, even if the whole thing was not put together well. Its difficult to be in a community of writers and know how readers would view it. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Dragon tea]

Well, that will happen if you want it. But with every bit of growth, something is lost. When you move from reader to writer, you wont be able to look at reading the same. Not dissimilar to a builder, who when looking at houses sees all the framing and ductwork behind the walls, a writer see all the mechanics of writing when looking at other's stories, and cannot simply return to just reading it anymore. For writers, its a little vexing, getting the opinion of other writers is getting all the nuts and bolts as they see it, getting the opinion of just a reader is to see if the illusion worked, even if the whole thing was not put together well. Its difficult to be in a community of writers and know how readers would view it. Hope that makes sense.

actually yes, it makes total sense. It's kind of sad though, like losing the magic of Christmas that we all have as a child when we get older...I'm not sure I'm ready to lose the reader in me...just yet.

 

[pmmg]

Just have to pay it forward. What I lost, I tried to kindle in my kids, and when they lose it, I hope they pass it along.

Behind my trek, are readers following along. Whose opinions matter the most? Well...readers who like the tale matter more than writers who can nitpick it apart Least for me.

But we do need both.

 

[Dragon tea]

Just have to pay it forward. What I lost, I tried to kindle in my kids, and when they lose it, I hope they pass it along.

Behind my trek, are readers following along. Whose opinions matter the most? Well...readers who like the tale matter more than writers who can nitpick it apart Least for me.

But we do need both.

hah, not saying i don't nitpick...espcially spelling mistakes!! Isn't that what proof readers and editors are for???
JK, no one is prefect, right? <----