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Why the fear of people of colour?
- Thread starter King_Cagn
- Start date
Scribe
What makes you think anyone fears it? There are all kinds of reason people might not include them - some originating in bias, and some not - but it seems a stretch to leap to the conclusion it is fear.
Well, first I would like to welcome you to Scribes.
I am pleased to say that the landscape of speculative fiction is changing. This is a topic that we discuss here on Scribes from time to time.
I'll link a couple of threads and articles here.
http://mythicscribes.com/forums/writing-questions/10373-what-im-saying-search-equality-pretty-messy.html
Racial Diversity in Speculative Fiction
Diversity, not just in presenting characters who are persons of color but who are women, who are disabled, who are gay, who are anything but the default setting of the white male farm boy/prince, is generating a great deal of discussion and attention within the genre and the industry these days. I'm glad you bring it up. Be aware - we're all thinking about it. I think linking it to fear is a bit inflammatory, though.
I am pleased to say that the landscape of speculative fiction is changing. This is a topic that we discuss here on Scribes from time to time.
I'll link a couple of threads and articles here.
http://mythicscribes.com/forums/writing-questions/10373-what-im-saying-search-equality-pretty-messy.html
Racial Diversity in Speculative Fiction
Diversity, not just in presenting characters who are persons of color but who are women, who are disabled, who are gay, who are anything but the default setting of the white male farm boy/prince, is generating a great deal of discussion and attention within the genre and the industry these days. I'm glad you bring it up. Be aware - we're all thinking about it. I think linking it to fear is a bit inflammatory, though.
- Thread starter
- #4
Well I see it this way, if a character isn't of Caucasian descent a product doesn't sell, this has been done countless times and is still happening. Rarely does a character of colour get the spotlight... So, I assume it's fear because nobody does it and when they do, they get heavily criticized for it.
Well, why do you think the authors get criticized for having a person of color as the main character?
- Thread starter
- #6
Ignorance... It's as simple as that. People are quite strange because they have the inability to seek diversity, nobody ever views it from a perspective of another race, sex or culture... People would rather go for :"Oh, it's the king, because he's a respectable white man", but than you get so bombarded by negativity if he was a person of color, than people go "But no, because he's african he should be a chief, it's more tribal, more suitable"...
It's this ignorance that sets caucasian character higher than characters of color... Not being racist, just being truthful.
It's this ignorance that sets caucasian character higher than characters of color... Not being racist, just being truthful.
I don't think the assumption of fear is supported by evidence.
I also think we need to take a step back with regard to the premises stated. I agree that we need better representation, but I'm not seeing all the criticism the OP is talking about. Where, exactly, are people who do include diversity being criticized? There are lots of authors who write other than white, male, cis, hetero characters. For example:
Octavia Butler
Angela Carter
Sherri Tepper
Caitlin Kiernan
Steven Erikson
Kristin Cashore
Ursula K. LeGuin
Storm Constantine
Paolo Bacigalupi
Nalo Hopkinson
N.K. Jemisin
Mercedes Lackey
Ellen Kushner
and so on. I don't see these authors being hammered over it.
I also think we need to take a step back with regard to the premises stated. I agree that we need better representation, but I'm not seeing all the criticism the OP is talking about. Where, exactly, are people who do include diversity being criticized? There are lots of authors who write other than white, male, cis, hetero characters. For example:
Octavia Butler
Angela Carter
Sherri Tepper
Caitlin Kiernan
Steven Erikson
Kristin Cashore
Ursula K. LeGuin
Storm Constantine
Paolo Bacigalupi
Nalo Hopkinson
N.K. Jemisin
Mercedes Lackey
Ellen Kushner
and so on. I don't see these authors being hammered over it.
That's not what I asked. You said, "Rarely does a character of colour get the spotlight... So, I assume it's fear because nobody does it and when they do, they get heavily criticized for it." That is a very interesting statement.
- Thread starter
- #9
But than why aren't their works as equally publicized by the media?, why can't the media place in characters of color in similar settings as caucasians instead of either giving them the role of sidekick or second best?... True it may not be 'fear' per say but than I don't see this equality the very same media keeps preaching about.
Maybe I'm just rambling utter nonsense but all I'm saying is that if I were to write a story and made the protagonist caucasian and I wrote the very same story again and the character 'of color', you'll admit that more people will go for the caucasian character than the one of color, no?...
Maybe I'm just rambling utter nonsense but all I'm saying is that if I were to write a story and made the protagonist caucasian and I wrote the very same story again and the character 'of color', you'll admit that more people will go for the caucasian character than the one of color, no?...
Jabrosky
Banned
1. Most writers in Western countries are white people writing what they know. Demographically speaking, it actually makes some sense for authors from predominantly white countries to write predominantly white characters.
2. Some writers simply don't like to describe any aspect of their characters' appearances at all. Either they prefer to leave such details to readers' imaginations or they're deliberately aiming for a lean or tight writing style without much decription. Personally that kind of style doesn't appeal to me so much, but if that's what they like for themselves, more power to them.
3. Ironically, political correctness may also contribute to the relative rarity of non-European characters and settings in fantasy. It actually used to be pretty common for adventure stories to take place in exotic parts of the world where so-called "people of color" demographically predominated. However, since the protagonists still tended to be white visitors and the non-white characters either secondary or antagonistic, this kind of fiction has (understandably) received a bad rap. Nowadays you have white writers so afraid of racism/stereotyping charges that they choose to sidestep the issue by avoiding non-European characters altogether.
For my part, I have no problem writing non-European main characters. If anything I do it more often than not.
2. Some writers simply don't like to describe any aspect of their characters' appearances at all. Either they prefer to leave such details to readers' imaginations or they're deliberately aiming for a lean or tight writing style without much decription. Personally that kind of style doesn't appeal to me so much, but if that's what they like for themselves, more power to them.
3. Ironically, political correctness may also contribute to the relative rarity of non-European characters and settings in fantasy. It actually used to be pretty common for adventure stories to take place in exotic parts of the world where so-called "people of color" demographically predominated. However, since the protagonists still tended to be white visitors and the non-white characters either secondary or antagonistic, this kind of fiction has (understandably) received a bad rap. Nowadays you have white writers so afraid of racism/stereotyping charges that they choose to sidestep the issue by avoiding non-European characters altogether.
For my part, I have no problem writing non-European main characters. If anything I do it more often than not.
Not being publicized to the same degree isn't the same as being criticized. What I want to know is where people are being criticized for writing this sort of thing. I don't see it.
I think to a large extent, media is driven by what has sold in the past, and they're looking for the next hit. Big fantasy phenomena have been Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Twilight. White, cis characters. When publishers, studios, and so on look at the marketplace to see what has made a lot of money, because they want to make a lot of money on their next project, what does that tell them? It tells them that's what is selling.
psychotick
Auror
Hi,
I personally try not to describe my characters in terms of colour at all if I can, and I suspect I'm not alone in that. My theory is that if my character can be black, white or red then my readers will imagine and identify with him in terms of their own world view which may be equally black, white or red.
To take this a couple of steps further - one reason that is occasionally given for the success of the glittery vampires is that the main character is only vaguely described. Therefore every teenage girl reading it can imagine that Bella(?) is just like her.
So my question would be how many main characters in fiction are actually white versus how many are in actual fact completely colourless and readers just assume they're white?
Cheers, Greg.
I personally try not to describe my characters in terms of colour at all if I can, and I suspect I'm not alone in that. My theory is that if my character can be black, white or red then my readers will imagine and identify with him in terms of their own world view which may be equally black, white or red.
To take this a couple of steps further - one reason that is occasionally given for the success of the glittery vampires is that the main character is only vaguely described. Therefore every teenage girl reading it can imagine that Bella(?) is just like her.
So my question would be how many main characters in fiction are actually white versus how many are in actual fact completely colourless and readers just assume they're white?
Cheers, Greg.
Nagash
Sage
That's a good point Greg, and I'm guessing we assume most of the time the character to be something close to some conception of our own. Having done some pretty extensive world-building, however, and imagined nations of differently-skinned people, I actually ended up with a bunch of colored people. Of course, most of my MC's are... well, more beast than humans, so the question of skin color is moot (unless blue scales count), but I found my work to offer a rather diverse set of characters. Not that it was done on purpose, but at some point, when using more than a dozen characters, you end up - hopefully - with a rather various mix of characters.
This being said, skin color shouldn't matter, and anyone reading the book, should be able to identify to the MC; I'm positive it really doesn't solely rely on appearance. For instance, five of my MC's are lizard men, who, while being extremely anthropomorphized and definitely belonging to the category "humanoid", widely resemble saurians rather than men (scales, claws, sharp teeth, wide and long jaws, spinal thorns, tails, reptilian eyes...). Yet, despite this superficial gap between them and the reader, I believe one shouldn't have any trouble identifying to said MC's for the simple reason that they talk, behave, think and act as humans do. They have a civilization, a well structured state and government, a functioning economy and highly evolved technology/military, thus resembling humans on a spiritual level, despite all of these differences.
Point is, one should be able to see a reflection of him/her self in any character with a psychologism shaped with humanity, regardless of physical differences.
This being said, skin color shouldn't matter, and anyone reading the book, should be able to identify to the MC; I'm positive it really doesn't solely rely on appearance. For instance, five of my MC's are lizard men, who, while being extremely anthropomorphized and definitely belonging to the category "humanoid", widely resemble saurians rather than men (scales, claws, sharp teeth, wide and long jaws, spinal thorns, tails, reptilian eyes...). Yet, despite this superficial gap between them and the reader, I believe one shouldn't have any trouble identifying to said MC's for the simple reason that they talk, behave, think and act as humans do. They have a civilization, a well structured state and government, a functioning economy and highly evolved technology/military, thus resembling humans on a spiritual level, despite all of these differences.
Point is, one should be able to see a reflection of him/her self in any character with a psychologism shaped with humanity, regardless of physical differences.
As said above, there could definitely be more representation, but I don't think the lack of it is out of fear. I'll add one author to the list Neal Gaiman and his book American Gods. The main character is black. It has won awards and praise out the yin-yang and has a huge following around the world. There are even rumors of it be made into a HBO mini-series.
According to this publisher's weekly article it sold over 40k copies in ebooks alone in 2012. The Bestselling E-books of 2012
According to this publisher's weekly article it sold over 40k copies in ebooks alone in 2012. The Bestselling E-books of 2012
I agree it's not fear.
My WIP has protagonists who are white, Asian and female. My three children are also white, Asian and female. (That's three daughters of mixed race. The characters in my story are either white or Asian.)
I would like to see more diversity in fantasy fiction, but the catch is that it can't be forced. (And that comment is NOT directed at Jabrosky, who has a genuine interest in African culture.) For me, I have a genuine interest in bringing more women into the fantasy world because I want my daughters to be able to read my books and see heroines, not the female lead (a.k.a. love interest of actual lead, who is male) or the damsel in distress or the hooker with a heart of gold.
My thoughts on this matter is to write the characters you want in your story, and write your story well. The color of the MC's skin shouldn't make or break the story.
I also agree with this^ and will admit to being one of these guys.
My WIP has protagonists who are white, Asian and female. My three children are also white, Asian and female. (That's three daughters of mixed race. The characters in my story are either white or Asian.)
I would like to see more diversity in fantasy fiction, but the catch is that it can't be forced. (And that comment is NOT directed at Jabrosky, who has a genuine interest in African culture.) For me, I have a genuine interest in bringing more women into the fantasy world because I want my daughters to be able to read my books and see heroines, not the female lead (a.k.a. love interest of actual lead, who is male) or the damsel in distress or the hooker with a heart of gold.
My thoughts on this matter is to write the characters you want in your story, and write your story well. The color of the MC's skin shouldn't make or break the story.
Feo Takahari
Auror
As a follow-up question, to what extent does colorless tend to become white? I deliberately wrote Price with a very vague physical description--all readers are told at first is that she's physically fit. But both of her parents have European last names (Price and Shores), and some of the jokes I wound up writing about her indicated "white" features. (For instance, she has straight hair that would be capable of growing to knee-length if she didn't trim it.) By the end of the book, the reader's picture of her is probably of a "white" character.
Come to think of it, how confused might readers have been if, instead of a joke about straight hair, I'd done a joke about dreadlocks? I really surprised readers of another story when I confirmed halfway through that Dan Park was of Korean descent, despite no indications to the contrary. And in a third story, I had to insert a mention in the first chapter that a research assistant had dark skin, because readers were picturing her as pale. It reminds me of the "Dogs and Smurfs" essay, although that's about sex rather than race. (Warnings: strong profanity, moderate self-righteousness.)
Gaiman's had some trouble with this, actually. According to TV Tropes:
Actually, that can probably be tied into when TV does whiten folks up. Let's start with this infamous pic regarding The Last Airbender and its adaptation:
(Then again, that movie was just weird--the main character's from a culture based on Tibet, and the movie cast a Native American actor.)
There's also Kensei Takezo in Heroes, who turns out to actually be a British guy because . . . I dunno. And Mazer Rackham in Ender's Game, who goes from Maori in the book to white with Maori tattoos in the movie because . . . Again, I dunno. (Maybe they couldn't get a Maori actor? I know Cliff Curtis is Maori, and he made it into The Last Airbender--as a villain.)
If my post seems like a jumbled mess, it's because my thoughts are, too.
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I had a similar question a while ago, where I asked something like this:
"If I wrote two airship captains, both thieves, and not nice guys, basically supplanting a dark-skinned one for a white one, would it be ignorant of me to have them talk the same or would it be racist of me if I changed the dialogue to suit their proposed backgrounds?"
basically, I'm more afraid of being called on having my dark-skinned hero talk too "white" than writing him in the first place. Does that make sense? Because for me, I'd want my dialogue to sound like me... not like some terrible version of what I think he should sound like, making things up in my head because I have no real exposure to how people of different cultures might speak in a common setting.
"If I wrote two airship captains, both thieves, and not nice guys, basically supplanting a dark-skinned one for a white one, would it be ignorant of me to have them talk the same or would it be racist of me if I changed the dialogue to suit their proposed backgrounds?"
basically, I'm more afraid of being called on having my dark-skinned hero talk too "white" than writing him in the first place. Does that make sense? Because for me, I'd want my dialogue to sound like me... not like some terrible version of what I think he should sound like, making things up in my head because I have no real exposure to how people of different cultures might speak in a common setting.
There is no right or wrong way for a character to talk, regardless of race. This is true in a general sense even of stories set in the real world, though background will influence it. In a fantasy setting there is no reason to go one direction or other apart from the author's desire to do so.
We write urban fantasy, but I avoid dialectic speech, regardless of the character's ethnic or regional background, mostly because it comes across as awkward. Try just writing them as individuals.
I wrote a character in another WIP recently, who is a sort of Oliver Twist character. I relied on dialect to color his character and while his inner thoughts are all written properly, his speech shows his low status.
