Repetitive Actions in a First Draft

[Philip Overby]

I guess you could also call this an editing question, but I'm looking more at certain kind of language that I tend to use in my first drafts. Here are some common examples of actions I use instead of dialogue tags:

1. She turned to (insert name here.)
2. He nodded.
3. She smiled.
4. He laughed.
5. She shook her head.
6. He frowned.
7. She gripped/rested her hand on her sword/dagger/melee weapon.

Not sure how common this is for others, but many of these expressions I consider "place holder actions." Meaning they convey something I want, but I more than likely either want to cut these completely or replace them with better actions. Not to say I want to eliminate every single instance of these, but there are a lot of them. One reason I do this is to prevent myself from being in a constant state of editing. Try as I might, I'm not one of these "edit as I go" types. I need to bang out a first draft and "pretty it up" later.

So my question is, as a reader or a writer: Do repetitive actions bother you as a reader or writer?

I do remember seeing some reviews complain about a character in Robert Jordan's work pulling on her braid a lot. I didn't think it seemed like a big deal, but apparently this kind of thing bothers some readers.

Note: I'm not saying any of what I've written above is necessarily bad, but I just don't want everyone smiling and nodding at each other my whole novel. Sometimes, yes. All the time, no.

 

[BWFoster78]

Phil,

I think these kind of repetitions bother me as a writer, not so much as a reader.

Regarding the Robert Jordan character - I didn't have a problem with it at all. It was a character trait of hers that he used to show her emotional state. To me, it made sense.

 

[teacup]

I think there should be some variation, but it doesn't bother me as a reader. I suppose it would bother me if it went overboard with nods and smiles every other line. As a writer, it doesn't exactly bother me, but when writing I do try to not be repetitive in this. There are also many more actions that can be done in the place of these, of course.

The Emotion Thesaurus includes "physical signals" of the different emotions, so if you're looking for variation, that could be useful. I'll link it here anyway, in case you do want it. The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide to Character Expression eBook: Angela Ackerman, Becca Puglisi: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store

 

[CupofJoe]

I guess if it comes down to idiosyncrasy of a characters actions or [to put it crudely/basically] a lack of vocabulary in the writer.
If as a reader I think that is all a writer could come up with, then it would most likely niggle at me.
Again if as a reader I can see that a writer has adapted the words around a character to reflect their actions, emotions and their likely choices, then I will most likely enjoy the read more.

As a writer, constantly I edit-as-I-go and it kills my productivity. Whole days lost on one or two paragraphs... [if I could] I would use these place-holders in the first run through just to get to the end of a story idea... then come back and find a "better" turn of phrase...

 

[Philip Overby]

I think there should be some variation, but it doesn't bother me as a reader. I suppose it would bother me if it went overboard with nods and smiles every other line. As a writer, it doesn't exactly bother me, but when writing I do try to not be repetitive in this. There are also many more actions that can be done in the place of these, of course.

The Emotion Thesaurus includes "physical signals" of the different emotions, so if you're looking for variation, that could be useful. I'll link it here anyway, in case you do want it. The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide to Character Expression eBook: Angela Ackerman, Becca Puglisi: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store

I actually have this book on Kindle but have never used it as of yet. I've heard a lot of people say it's great. I think I tend to just do this repetitive action kind of deal in my first drafts only. Most of my polished work tends to eliminate most of it or critique partners may point out weaker descriptions.

I guess if it comes down to idiosyncrasy of a characters actions or [to put it crudely/basically] a lack of vocabulary in the writer.
If as a reader I think that is all a writer could come up with, then it would most likely niggle at me.
Again if as a reader I can see that a writer has adapted the words around a character to reflect their actions, emotions and their likely choices, then I will most likely enjoy the read more.

As a writer, constantly I edit-as-I-go and it kills my productivity. Whole days lost on one or two paragraphs... [if I could] I would use these place-holders in the first run through just to get to the end of a story idea... then come back and find a "better" turn of phrase...

I think that's my case. If I edit-as-I-go, I don't get anything finished. That's why I tend to use weaker actions to just move the story along. However, I try to avoid it as much as possible. I've actually been editing some of the earlier parts of my current novel when I'm away from my computer (I carry a printed out manuscript with me), and I've been sniping some of the more common weaker or repetitive phrases.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Yes, repetitive and simple action tags bother me a lot as a reader. It's not the same as a character pulling on her hair whenever she's in a distressed state. That's an attempt at characterization.

When I read consistent use of tags like:
Phil nodded...
Brian shook his head...
Lori sighed...
To me, those are unimaginative and lazy. They don't convey any information on character or what is happening. They're boring, which is the worst of all possible writerly sins. You must be interesting.

It's fine if you're using them as placeholders, but I'd recommend replacing them with tags that impart a sense of what is happening in the scene or gives the reader some information on the character's mental state. Otherwise, they're wasted words & the repetitive laziness will make me yawn.

 

[Philip Overby]

Yes, repetitive and simple action tags bother me a lot as a reader. It's not the same as a character pulling on her hair whenever she's in a distressed state. That's an attempt at characterization.

When I read consistent use of tags like:
Phil nodded...
Brian shook his head...
Lori sighed...
To me, those are unimaginative and lazy. They don't convey any information on character or what is happening. They're boring, which is the worst of all possible writerly sins. You must be interesting.

It's fine if you're using them as placeholders, but I'd recommend replacing them with tags that impart a sense of what is happening in the scene or gives the reader some information on the character's mental state. Otherwise, they're wasted words & the repetitive laziness will make me yawn.

I haven't read the Wheel of Time books, but the pulling the braid thing apparently happens a lot. I understand that is characterization in some way, but I don't see how that's much different than someone raising an eyebrow or scratching their head, which if someone is doing it all the time I may question if they're infinitely confused or they have killer dandruff.

I mostly use these kind of things as placeholders so I don't have to sit there and think for several minutes, "What's the perfect action to happen here?" I guess I'm a more skeletal first drafter, but I understand that some people like to work out everything more so they don't have to worry about editing so much later.

I do think a smile or a nod here and there don't hurt anything when they matter, but if I see them all the time, especially in my own writing, I want them to go away. So I hone in on them in edits. I think the key to avoiding these kind of "empty actions" may be to eliminate them altogether or to at least make them more interesting in some way.

I personally find this happening less in my short stories than in my novels. But I figure it's fine as long as I'm doing it in a first draft. I guess at times I get into dialogue heavy scenes and just want an action there where it may not be necessary. The better solution may just be a simple dialogue tag.

 

[skip.knox]

This may simply vary by reader. I noticed it first in Dune. I read the book and loved it. For several years early in our marriage, I would read books aloud to my wife, and I read Dune to her. Only then, when reading aloud, did I notice the barking. It may have only been Duncan (it's been a long time), but memory says it was multiple characters. Characters didn't shout or order, they barked. By the time I was well into the story, I was wincing every time. Yet, when I had read the book initially, I never noticed.

It'd be great if there was software that could produce with a *word or phrase per N pages, or per 1000 words* report. It would highlight barking problems early in editing.

And yeah, I do the same. I put down something, knowing it's weak, expecting to catch it in the edit. Here's another software innovation for you programmers: Make it easy for me to mark such a thing. Maybe a triple-tap, something that would be extremely quick and easy, so when I wrote "he rolled his eyes" I could tag it, then search on the "weak" tags during edit.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I haven't read the Wheel of Time books, but the pulling the braid thing apparently happens a lot. I understand that is characterization in some way, but I don't see how that's much different than someone raising an eyebrow or scratching their head, which if someone is doing it all the time I may question if they're infinitely confused or they have killer dandruff.

Yes, the braid pulling happens a lot. It did irk me a bit, but not overly so. I said "attempted characterization" because I see vast differences between an author consciously writing some physical quirk as a means to develop or illustrate character (whether that effort is effective or not) & a writer using head shakes and nods repetitively. To me, the latter is unimaginative & useless.

I do think a smile or a nod here and there don't hurt anything when they matter, but if I see them all the time, especially in my own writing, I want them to go away.

As a reader, a nod or smile here or there might not bother me. As a writer though, I don't like useless words. For my style, if a word or phrase isn't doing work (character, plot, emotion, etc.), what is it there for? Snip, snip, cut, cut.

I don't think I'd write "Phil nodded..." anymore, but that's because I've trained myself to think differently and write with elaboration focused on meaning. Don't get me wrong. There's nothing incorrect about writing a skeletal draft that you develop past nods & head shaking later. This is one of the reasons I'm a slower writer than most. Even in a first draft the words must have a purpose and effect, so it takes some thinking. The more I write though, the more natural this feels and the quicker it becomes. My drafts are becoming cleaner. Still, they'll always need revision.

My signature quote by Asimov sums up my feelings on words & phrases.

 

[Philip Overby]

This may simply vary by reader. I noticed it first in Dune. I read the book and loved it. For several years early in our marriage, I would read books aloud to my wife, and I read Dune to her. Only then, when reading aloud, did I notice the barking. It may have only been Duncan (it's been a long time), but memory says it was multiple characters. Characters didn't shout or order, they barked. By the time I was well into the story, I was wincing every time. Yet, when I had read the book initially, I never noticed.

It'd be great if there was software that could produce with a *word or phrase per N pages, or per 1000 words* report. It would highlight barking problems early in editing.

And yeah, I do the same. I put down something, knowing it's weak, expecting to catch it in the edit. Here's another software innovation for you programmers: Make it easy for me to mark such a thing. Maybe a triple-tap, something that would be extremely quick and easy, so when I wrote "he rolled his eyes" I could tag it, then search on the "weak" tags during edit.

Love Dune and never noticed that. Now I'm totally going to!

Glad to hear we both work the same way, Skip. I was starting to worry I was some kind of anomaly. I do think Scrivener has a way to seek out certain phrases, but I'm not positive about that. Most programs can seek out individually words in any case, so if I have a bunch of characters nodding and smiling at each other, I can find them pretty easily.

 

[Philip Overby]

I don't think I'd write "Phil nodded..." anymore, but that's because I've trained myself to think differently and write with elaboration focused on meaning. Don't get me wrong. There's nothing incorrect about writing a skeletal draft that you develop past nods & head shaking later. This is one of the reasons I'm a slower writer than most. Even in a first draft the words must have a purpose and effect, so it takes some thinking. The more I write though, the more natural this feels and the quicker it becomes. My drafts are becoming cleaner. Still, they'll always need revision.

I think our February Reading Group book Prince of Thorns showcases this very well. Lawrence tends to be economical with words, but the words that are used all seem to have a purpose. They may not evoke emotion necessarily, but they all do work. I like that about his writing style. It's easy to read, yet still paints an accurate image of the world and its characters.

I find that even though I have these repetitive phrases in some instances, I do think they're helping my writing in a weird way. I used to never finish anything because I was never happy with the words I used. But since I started going, "You know what, she smiles here. Carry on" it's allowed me to continue writing without getting bogged down. I'm aware I'm not happy with my word choice, but continuing on with the story seems more important to me in the moment.

I believe there's a difference between slower, deliberate writers, and ones that get bogged down and lose focus when it's not coming out perfect. I was the latter type before and found it didn't work for me. I would say as far as writing speed, I'm somewhere in the middle now.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I think our February Reading Group book Prince of Thorns showcases this very well. Lawrence tends to be economical with words, but the words that are used all seem to have a purpose. They may not evoke emotion necessarily, but they all do work. I like that about his writing style. It's easy to read, yet still paints an accurate image of the world and its characters.

Yeah, I agree. There are many things I didn't like about the story but I found the writing effective. You said it well with "[words that] all do work". That's what I'm after in my own writing. Not a wasted word. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be lean writing though. You can have a much more elaborate, descriptive style and still only use words that are doing work.

I do find that even though I have these repetitive phrases in some instances, I do think they're helping my writing in a weird way. I used to never finish anything because I was never happy with the words I used. But since I started going, "You know what, she smiles here. Carry on" it's allowed me to continue writing without getting bogged down. I think there's a difference between slower, deliberate writers, and ones that get bogged down and lose focus when it's not coming out perfect. I was the latter type before and found it didn't work for me. I would say as far as writing speed, I'm somewhere in the middle now.

Nothing wrong with that. We all work differently. The only thing that matters is what comes out at the end of revision. It does beg a question though. Are you consciously training yourself to write in a style, or are you developing your process organically? One is not better than the other. I just wonder how many writers think about their writing training in this way.

 

[Penpilot]

As a reader, I probably won't notice it until after the third time, but after that, each use will kick me out of the story. Also if you intend the story to be read multiple times, it'll get worse with each reading.

When I write, I generally try not to use those type of actions more than once per scene/chapter/short story unless I really need it, can't remove a previous use, and can't find something better. In some instances, I might just remove the action because it generally doesn't add anything. I find that more often than not, there's something better to use, and if I can't find it, it's a limitation on my part right then, whether it's in my skills or in not understanding the character/story/situation enough.

I've heard some people describe this type of thing called twitchy characters. They're constantly smiling, scratching, rubbing, touching, etc.

However, there are instances where repetitive action can be used to express something about a character. A constantly smiling character can indicate a falseness about them. Constantly scratching/touching a body part may hint at a specific event or emotional state, but these things must be either set up previously or paid off later. If not, then, they're key candidates to be edited out in my eyes. But sometimes it's a lot easier said than done.

 

[BWFoster78]

As a writer though, I don't like useless words. For my style, if a word or phrase isn't doing work (character, plot, emotion, etc.), what is it there for? Snip, snip, cut, cut.

TAS,

Though I get what you're saying, I don't necessarily agree that words like "Phil nodded" are useless.

For example, let's say we have a section of multiple person dialogue that starts with this:

"Do you agree?" TAS said.

Let's say you want one of the other characters to agree. The most efficient (least words option) is:

Phil nodded.

Otherwise you'd need something like:

"Yes," Phil said.

Or something that requires even more words.

Again, I don't disagree completely with your principle, but, sometimes, such simple motions are clear and efficient.

 

[BWFoster78]

I was starting to worry I was some kind of anomaly.

You are definitely not alone, Phil.

My goal in a first draft is to get as much on the page as quickly as I can. Stopping to try to figure out a better way to show an emotion would slow me down way too much. I'm continually surprised by the things that my characters say and do, and I think a lot of the really cool things that come up are because I am writing fast and letting it surface with as little conscious thought as possible. Sometimes I'll even write ///action to express disbelief/// and move on.

Fixing is what revising is for.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

...let's say we have a section of multiple person dialogue that starts with this:

"Do you agree?" TAS said.

Let's say you want one of the other characters to agree. The most efficient (least words option) is:

Phil nodded.

Otherwise you'd need something like:

"Yes," Phil said.

Or something that requires even more words. Again, I don't disagree completely with your principle, but, sometimes, such simple motions are clear and efficient.

Yes Brian, I'd agree with that. In cases like your example, Phil's nod is doing work. It's providing information to the reader, that Phil does agree with TAS.

There are always exceptions, but most times I'd target repetitive and vague tags for editing & either cut or elaborate on actions that do more work for characterization or forwarding of the story. Ninety percent of the time when I'm reading an excerpt for critique, I see the nods, the head shakes, and the smiles that give the reader vague, bland information or they're doing little to nothing at all (weak or useless words and actions). Repetition of these tags are, in my opinion, lazy and dull. That is just my preference, your mileage may vary.

 

[BWFoster78]

Yes Brian, I'd agree with that. In cases like your example, Phil's nod is doing work. It's providing information to the reader, that Phil does agree with TAS.

There are always exceptions, but most times I'd target repetitive and vague tags for editing & either cut or elaborate on actions that do more work for characterization or forwarding of the story. Ninety percent of the time when I'm reading an excerpt for critique, I see the nods, the head shakes, and the smiles that give the reader vague, bland information or they're doing little to nothing at all (weak or useless words and actions). Repetition of these tags are, in my opinion, lazy and dull. That is just my preference, your mileage may vary.

My preference, absent cases like illustrated above, is to remove such tags as well. I don't think that they bother me quite as much as they bother you, though

 

[buyjupiter]

Nothing wrong with that. We all work differently. The only thing that matters is what comes out at the end of revision. It does beg a question though. Are you consciously training yourself to write in a style, or are you developing your process organically? One is not better than the other. I just wonder how many writers think about their writing training in this way.

As someone who works fast with as little time spent on "ooh that sounds horrible, remember to fix that later" in first drafts, I've been training myself out of bad conversational writing (like this post with all it's quirks and passive tense and repetitive word use). I've added in the advice from Palahnuik about cutting out the "thoughts, felts, wondereds, etc" and actually describing out those sensations, once I got a better handle on writing more actively in the first draft of things.

I try to consciously approach improvement by taking feedback and writer advice that works for me and adding that into the next round of first drafts I do.

Even with all the thought that I'm now putting into first drafts, I'm still able to just slam out words and get the story into its proper shape. But the words are better, for putting the thought into them--even if it's just a quick evaluation that it's not quite the right word--and my process hasn't suffered any. I'm still writing just as fast. I'm just spending less time in revision pass after revision pass.

I honestly think that it takes a really great story idea and some really horrible execution and spending that time in editing and revision hell that makes a writer sit up and realize that the way they use words are important. That the way they use description is important. That the way they use emotion is important. It's even better if it's a n00b writer first person story, so they can see all the problems that first person POV has...this would be my trunk story. I spent that time trying desperately hard to pretty that story up, but there was no saving it. I did learn several critical lessons: stay away from the thesaurus, first person narratives aren't my forte, and I can't really write about high concept stuff without coming across like I have an ax to grind.

 

[Philip Overby]

Nothing wrong with that. We all work differently. The only thing that matters is what comes out at the end of revision. It does beg a question though. Are you consciously training yourself to write in a style, or are you developing your process organically? One is not better than the other. I just wonder how many writers think about their writing training in this way.

That's a good question. Maybe some of both? I believe my style has evolved from being highly descriptive to more dialogue heavy with descriptive passages when needed. This maybe comes from reading writers like Elmore Leonard, whose characters really shine through their dialogue. I do like the descriptive writing of writers like Steven Erikson, China Mieville, and R. Scott Bakker, so I try to take elements of what I like from them as well.

So I'd say that my style didn't really develop from consciously thinking about about it, but it probably slowly got influenced by the authors I read. There are certain mechanics and word choice I pay more attention to now, but I'd say it depends on what kind of story I'm writing.

I remember a while back I wrote a story and someone said, "I didn't know you were so dark." So stylistically, I don't really stay one way. I guess I approach darker fiction with a more cerebral focus, while I approach my lighter, action-y writing with a "whatever happens, happens" method. Perhaps this lighter approach is cause for the more repetitive actions in my first draft because I tend to use rough outlines and then hammer out the details in my writing.

 

[ThinkerX]

Hmmm...I could be in a lot of trouble here. My characters are constantly looking, pointing, nodding, and gesturing.

On the other hand, I recently took a look at 'Shovel Ready' a dystopian near future book set in post apocalyptic NYC. Very abbreviated style. I doubt if there were more than two dozen sentences in the whole dang book more than ten words long. Very few descriptions of people, places or things more than four or five words, and usually less.

Apart from periods and commas, almost nothing in the way of punctuation, either - not even quotation marks. Got to the point where I couldn't tell if the MC was speaking or thinking or if somebody else was speaking. Almost nothing in the way of speech tags, either. Just lots and lots of short sentences written in a style about one notch up from basic English - literally.