Finchbearer
Istar
Bottom right is the female member of the band
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Orc females
- Thread starter Fettju
- Start date
pmmg
Myth Weaver
I'm sure shes looked better.
>I mean how do animals live in the wild.
This is key. You've already said you intend to model the orcs on animal behavior, so just study animal behavior. Wild animals, mind, not domesticated or feral. You will find a range of behaviors; choose as you wish.
As for appearance, they can look any way you wish, but they can't have clothing or weapons, given your assumption. So most depictions of orcs aren't relevant. Those orcs aren't yours. Make them however you want. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
I did it with goblins in my first novel. They aren't anything like goblins from other fantasy stories, but I've never heard a complaint about it. But I was aware readers would come in with preconceptions, so I took some steps to deal with that.
To cite a loftier precedent, Tolkien's elves are pretty much invented. They don't correspond to the sort of elves you would find in stories from earlier decades (or centuries). He made his own. Seemed to do ok.
This is key. You've already said you intend to model the orcs on animal behavior, so just study animal behavior. Wild animals, mind, not domesticated or feral. You will find a range of behaviors; choose as you wish.
As for appearance, they can look any way you wish, but they can't have clothing or weapons, given your assumption. So most depictions of orcs aren't relevant. Those orcs aren't yours. Make them however you want. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
I did it with goblins in my first novel. They aren't anything like goblins from other fantasy stories, but I've never heard a complaint about it. But I was aware readers would come in with preconceptions, so I took some steps to deal with that.
To cite a loftier precedent, Tolkien's elves are pretty much invented. They don't correspond to the sort of elves you would find in stories from earlier decades (or centuries). He made his own. Seemed to do ok.
- Thread starter
- #44
MinstrelHmm but this might fit actually. Except the reputation part. Or it could work as well, if the orc females do some gathering for the pack, of small game, and plants at their current location, and they stop each other from doing that.
Wow! Thanks!
"but the translation has not been printed for fear of copyright action by the Tolkien Estate" damnit
Or do you know where to find it?
- Thread starter
- #45
Thank you! That (so far, I haven't read it all) is a very interesting article.
I like this
"lasting several hours, some of the adult females switch groups. Apparently, they are seeking new mates."
and this
"a second adult male may join. When this occurs, both adult males will potentially mate with the adult female."
(I am not making a fantasy comic for rule34, if it sounds like that. I don't what that is?)
Instead of the female orcs rearing babies, they are wild and give birth to babies sometimes.
- Thread starter
- #46
Yes, social as in society, civilization. But social as in at least working together sometimes, moving as a group together, hunting together, yes.
Actually, maybe the males doing war and hunting big game together, while the female run around in the wild might be cool.
I have the basic idea that I want, but I am looking for ideas to make it "make more sense" in it's own way
- Thread starter
- #47
Ah ok, because my idea for female orcs is not hideous. Actually neither the male orcs, not like that.
Lorde with green skin would be nice
- Thread starter
- #48
It's my finish friends girlfriend. Wait, it also looks like her mum
- Thread starter
- #49
Yes this is very good. I honestly didn't think about that. What pmmg posted above about primates was a very good source to pull ideas from.
And now when you mention it I started to think about parrots as well, don't know why. I think there is this weird species of parrot in Australia where the male roosts, and the female has many partners. Or something like that.
Yes I know. This is not a problem. I am just trying to wrap my brain around what a wild human woman would be like, totally wild, like an animal; but still being feminine.
- Thread starter
- #50
Why didn't Gandalf put the ring around that Faxe horse's ring finger and ride fast as hell to Mount Doom and throw it in? "Shut up. Like Jesus said to the merchants in the temple. "Just shut up, you too!""
- Thread starter
- #51
Yes, but they are spirits, elementals. I mean spirit as in the original meaning of the word, "wind" or "breath". So they are intelligent, but they don't change. One or two might change, but then they will leave the whole orc way of being.
My elves are like that. There is a huge split among the elves, the ones who follow the eternal way of the elves, and the other ones who left, which are called Apostates by the original ones and they are killed on sight. (But the Apostates left the elven "world" so they must be actively hunted down if they are to be killed, and doing that would in turn mean to leave the original way of the elf)
The difference between the elves and the orcs is that the elves by nature build culture, they have that dimension to their psyche. But orcs dont. They are elementals.
Exactly. What is female nature outside of that scenario? When there is no culture, no society to speak of more than being a group, when the female is significantly weaker than the male? (Bone structure, muscle structure, size)
Actually, this is very good. The males could be the ones that are the "society" of the orcs. They have to be together to challenge each other all the time and show the other males who is strongest when they hunt big dangerous animals. So they cooperate to be able to maintain this.
While the female, who are much weaker, run away from the males, and hide in caves and hollowed out tree trunks. Or something. And pick mushrooms and berries and hunt rabbits and bambis, until the orc pack comes! Then it's time to flee again! To stay wild and free, males have to be kept at a safe distance.
Could be. I am thinking of those parrots. Eclectus parrot/marmoset mix.
Think of spirits in the real world. (Now this might be a bit wild and far out)
¡Warning! Don't keep reading if you are hard core atheist, or have total faith in science, or don't like rants!
God cannot be physical. Because if God were physical, who made the matter God is made of? That one must be God! Like that, in a circle, forever. And if God is not physical, God cannot be in a place, because a place is a space between two physical things. Or you can say, space is where two physical things are separated, it requires something physical first. All this means, heaven, where God is, is just something that you say, because God is not there. Heaven is not a place. But if you believe in creation, God must be, somehow! The angels or "spirits" as well. They are also in heaven, which is not a place.
So now we take a step over to Jung, who among many other things speak about the archetypes in the psyche, that exist in the common unconscious. A person can be "possessed" by an archetype in different situations in his life. And what is it that possesses? A demon, which is what we call spirit, which means "wind" or "breath". And they are always the same. The archetypes never change personality or pattern.
So the orc is the archetype of wildness, savageness. It lives in the common unconscious of Man, as the common unconscious is shared by everyone. Somehow it became flesh. As humanity or the population of the empire is a mass of people, and a society is an image of humanity (which has many styles and forms), the orc is also a mass of...orcs. I cannot explain this last part well, but the archetype The Orc is not only an archetype for an individual, it is also an archetype for civilization or society, it's opposite. And a society has many many members. So the exorcised orc, has also many many members.
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Finchbearer
Istar
What I never understood is how the orcs were a specially bred type of elf, where a highly evolved creature could be made more primitive. As though they are just beefy dumb elves. Would they have the ghost of the elven race? Would the females be like Galadriel if she had been lobotomised? Ethereal but brutal as hell.
Queshire
Istar
Steroids?
- Thread starter
- #54
And how were they bred? Did he actually mean "bread"? So he baked them and they got burnt?
- Thread starter
- #55
The chimpansee social behaviour is also extremely interesting. A little bit of what I am looking for
Queshire
Istar
So a wizard extracting and embodying spirits is fine, but what equates to a fallen angel corrupting an existing species is unbelievable? Weird priorities there dude.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
LOTR is one of those things with tons of supporting material. I am sure the answers to questions like those have answer if you wish to get them.
Questions like, why didn't they do X and instead of Y, is like monday morning quarterbacking. It may be there was a better answer, but sometimes people just pick a direction, and not always the best one. If he had put the ring on shadowfax, we would have just gotten Bad Horse earlier, and that would not have been cool.
Questions like, why didn't they do X and instead of Y, is like monday morning quarterbacking. It may be there was a better answer, but sometimes people just pick a direction, and not always the best one. If he had put the ring on shadowfax, we would have just gotten Bad Horse earlier, and that would not have been cool.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
I dont follow this anymore. If you remove females from all of things that would make their being female matter, you just have things scratching around to survive, just like everything else. Maybe just a little smaller than the males. Why bother having them?
The whole Jungian Orc spirit thing may make sense in your story, but does not help your question here. It just adds confusion. I dont need to know that to work out how wild women might behave.
IMO, you are not leaving much room for their female aspect to matter. So they are just smaller wild things than the males.
The whole Jungian Orc spirit thing may make sense in your story, but does not help your question here. It just adds confusion. I dont need to know that to work out how wild women might behave.
IMO, you are not leaving much room for their female aspect to matter. So they are just smaller wild things than the males.
Queshire
Istar
Well that just opens up room to explore the question of what makes something feminine, but I get the sense that the two of you would prefer to avoid looking too closely at that question.
CupofJoe
Myth Weaver
Search for it online. I found a copy at Internet Archive. There is a link on the page.
