Magic and technology

[D. Gray Warrior]

How does one fit both magic and sci fi technology into a single setting?

For context, the setting is rather low tech, roughly at an Iron Age level of technology and culture, so people are pretty superstitious.

However, there is also a lost civilization that was highly technologically advanced, though its tech was more organic in nature (eugenics, gene splicing, organic computers, creating flesh monsters, etc) instead of the standard sci fi image of mechanical technology like robots, lasers, etc. They're the reason why many monsters are lurking throughout the wilderness and dungeons.

I could have the "magic" just be lost technology misunderstood, but I still kinda want literal, arcane magic in the setting. Is there a way I can work it in without making it clash?

There are psychics in the setting, who were created by the lost empire, and most people see psionics as magic. The difference is that psionics is an innate ability (via generic experimentations) and doesn't require rituals or making pacts with an entity. So psychics are sorta-kinda a mage race.

I was thinking that arcane magic involves rituals, summonings and making pacts with spirits. Anyone can cast a spell with enough know-how, predation and the right materials, but it's time consuming and the more powerful the spell, the more complex and dangerous it is to perform. I haven't officially made up my mind, so I am open to alternative magic types.

The main thing is that it's a low magic setting. Magic exists, but it's uncommon and most of it is secretive. You're not gonna see a wizard throwing a fireball in the middle of the street.

Do you think magic and technology can work in a setting, or would they clash too much?

 

[ThinkerX]

In my worlds...

Many thousands of years ago, the utterly inhuman and naturally psionic ancient aliens terraformed multiple planets and brought groups of primitive humans and other races to them as servitors and test subjects. Time passed, and the aliens dwindled. To keep their tech operational - which required PSI ability - they genetically imbued select humans and others with vastly increased psionic ability. Thousands of years later, their civilizations imploded and the descendants of those test subjects became 'wizards.'

These days...

Huge areas are basically 'savages with swords and second-rate sorcerers.'

In other places, stratified societies ruled by sorcerous aristocrats keep remnants of the ancient alien tech semi-functional...while cutting deals with Lovecraftian abominations...

Newer cultures have painfully clawed their way to a 17th-19th century level of tech: explosive weapons, bicycles, balloons, complex clockwork mechanisms, telescopes, microscopes, crude cameras, and phonographs...in places.

And scavengers and explorers occasionally come out of the wastelands with ancient alien devices that sort of work...sometimes...for a while.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

How does one fit both magic and sci fi technology into a single setting?

Do you think magic and technology can work in a setting, or would they clash too much?

Damn skippy it works. Both our current series, which is Urban Fantasy, and our next one, an Epic Fantasy, which takes part during a world war, both incorporate magic and technology with a wide selection of plot bunnies to cuddle and enjoy. We have magic all over the place. From immortal beings forged of incredible feats of magic to a 700lb talking Black pig with no respect for morons, to a young wizard who is a trauma surgeon, a prodigy in the art of potions and also a stimulant addict. In our second book in the UF series we have a high-speed chase between a high-end sports car and a black SUV. Zipping between other cars like they're standing still, and throwing magic at each other as they try to drive the other vehicle off the highway and into the boggy ground between lanes.

The only reason they aren't spotted by the people they tear past down the highway is the magical protections that hide them from mortal eyes. That, and the human mind. People don't believe what they see. They will see what they believe. Since most days one doesn't see much in the way of wizard battles, they're easier to ignore.

How do we pull it off? Normalizing your metaphysics, how your world works. Humans miss a lot, either here or in our fantasy worlds, mostly to just not actively looking around or listening. This is a wee part of our second UF, the highway chase. It's bloody long, but I think it's the sort of mélange you're thinking about trying.

~~~

From Ties of Blood and Bone: The Second Book of Binding...

Alerich looked past her toward the sound of running footsteps. “I’m not going to hurt you, but he is. We have to go!” He took her by her hand and a shield settled over her without him casting, much like the magic she had seen him perform during the fight. “We have to get to my car. Now!”

Instinct took over and Winter let Alerich pull her along, running beside him toward the big patron parking lot. Footsteps sounded against the cobblestones of Pacifica Street behind them and echoed off the brick buildings, Magnus Ashimar in hot pursuit. Only the occasional human pedestrian kept them from casting spells at each other, for which Winter was grateful. The Servants of the Eldest would not look favorably on public displays of magic.

But once they made it to their warded cars, all bets would be off. Unless they actually managed to hit a human’s vehicle, the humans on the road would instinctively avoid them, but not be able to see them.

Winter’s foot skidded on some ice, nearly bringing her down, but Alerich’s arm wrapped around her waist and held her to his side, keeping her upright.

One of the other men snapped out with his fingers and the doors of Alerich’s red sports car flew open, dinging one of the cars beside it. They piled inside, the two men in the back and Alerich in the driver’s seat with Winter beside him. They had barely thrown the car into drive when a flash and a crunch sounded against the side, followed by cursing from the back seat. Apparently, Magnus had found an opening for a spell, but the steel body of the car and whatever spellwork Alerich and his friends had placed on it had absorbed its fury.

Alerich floored the gas and they went skidding along the slick pavement, passing Magnus as he dove into a black SUV.

The shops along Sequoia Avenue went by in a blur. There was another flash and one of the men cried out in alarm. “He’s got a tracker on us. Can you get it off?”

“Not and drive, Thomas.” Alerich glanced at Winter. “Seatbelts, everyone. This is going to be a rough ride.”

Winter pulled her seatbelt on, watching Alerich closely. “Jessie has gone missing. Do you have something to do with that?”

Alerich grimaced and cursed under his breath. “No, I don’t. I would never hurt her. But I think I know who did. With my father busy chasing you, it must have been his sport, Bastian.”

Winter could sense the truth in his words. “Who is Bastian?”

Alerich slipped past a truck like it was standing still and then was forced to slow by turning onto Merchant Street. “He’s a sadistic little shit in service to my father. We’ll need to get her back before he hurts her.”

Winter’s heart sped up even faster. “Where are they?”

 

[A. E. Lowan]

(cont.)

“My bet is the vineyard my father has rented. But first, we need to get him off our tail, or there won’t be much left of us to put together a rescue.”

Winter pointed to the onramp coming up ahead. “Get to the Outer Road and to Mulcahy House. The House has powerful protections. Your father won’t be able to get in.”

The taller of the other two men looked up from his phone. “Fitz Martin. Pleasure to rescue you. Will he be able to knock it down?”

Winter smiled and shook her head. “Not in this lifetime.”

Alerich sped up the onramp to the Outer Road, forcibly slowed by traffic and the road, the black SUV keeping pace behind them. The SUV suddenly roared and bucked, pulling up alongside them, and with a sudden jerk to the right rammed the sports car from the side, eliciting a scream from Winter.

Alerich fought to keep control, to not run off the ramp or into any of the other vehicles. He slammed on the breaks, forcing his father to shoot ahead, and then floored the gas, roaring up behind and around the SUV, taking cover behind a semi.

A tire on the semi blew in a veil of blue sparks, swinging the trailer wide across traffic, and Alerich barely missed being swept off the road, pumping magic into the engine to force it forward faster. Ever faster. He shot past the disabled semi and roared past a sedan onto the open road.

Somehow, Magnus was also able to pour magic into his engine. Winter could feel it as the SUV crept ever closer to their bumper, threatening to ram them again.

Her mailbox came into sight, the gold lettering shining against the big black box. “We’re here! Turn left!”

Alerich again slammed on his breaks, forcing his father to panic brake behind him, and then he hit the gas, barreling toward the mile-long drive. He came into the turn in a smoking skid, leaving long black streaks behind him, and floored it as he tore up the lane, engine screaming.

The SUV was not far behind. Winter watched in the mirror as Magnus’s arm extended from the window, flames licking along his hand. No! The fireball struck them in the back left, lurching the car up and forward on its front tires. Thomas cried out in pain.

The back end of the sports car slammed down to the pavement, bouncing Winter hard against her seatbelt. Alerich reached over and jerked her belt free. “We have to get out of this car.” He snapped his own and turned to help Fitz with Thomas. The SUV was stopping behind them.

They needed more time.

Winter pulled her paintball gun from her bag and checked the potion ball hopper. Banishing potion would do her no good, here, but thankfully she had traded it out before meeting the wolves just in case things went sideways. She pushed her door open and used the top of the car to aim, just like Etienne had taught her to.

Three large, sickly yellow splats appeared on the SUV, one on the hood and two on the windshield. Immediately, the splats began to smoke heavily as the material they adhered to disintegrated. Magnus leapt from the smoking SUV, coughing and jerking at his jacket as it, too, smoked from small holes across one breast and a sleeve.

Fitz turned and looked as the three men exited the sports car, Thomas supported between the other two, and laughed raucously. “That’s delightfully unpleasant.”

Winter kept her paintball gun pointed at Magnus and flashed a small smile. She may be only a potion master, but she was still capable of some very unpleasant things. Unfortunately, actually shooting the other wizard wasn’t one of them, so while he slapped and cursed at her potion she stuffed the gun in her bag and ran for the House, pulling Alerich and his friends with her.

Thankfully, they did not have far to run—Alerich’s speeding having made quick work of the drive’s mile—and within a few dozen yards they were in the circle drive. However, Magnus did not need much time to recover, and a bolt of pure magic shot past them, skidding off the shield Alerich had cast on Winter and knocking her to one side. She scrambled to keep her feet, one hand on the pavement, and kept going.

Etienne came out of the House, gun in hand, glowering. “What the fuck is this?”

Winter waved him back. “Get back inside! Now!”

Etienne glanced behind her, and then surged forward, picking her up, and running back inside with his full sidhe speed… which was a bit faster than was expected.

But Winter did not have time to comment. Etienne put her on her feet and ran outside to help the others.

Winter slammed the door as Alerich brought up the rear, throwing raw magic at his father and setting a small tree on fire. “Everyone, back. Away from—”

A tremendous blast hit the front door, cracking it inwards and causing the magical wireframe of the House to shudder… and then it twisted in reverse, reforming and strengthening like a broken bone.

Winter stood, gasping for breath. “It’s a faerie building. He can’t destroy it because it constantly renews itself from Faerie itself. Just stay away from the windows. As you saw, he can knock them inwards a bit.”

Her phone rang, and she startled, almost forgetting it was in her pocket. It was Brian. “Brian, I am so sorry. Things exploded and we’re now at Mulcahy House.”

“That’s a relief. I’m at your store and I was worried you’d disappeared, too.”

Winter smiled at Alerich. “No, it’s okay. Someone did make a grab for me, but I was rescued.”

“I’m coming out to you.”

There was another explosion outside. “Let me call you with the all clear, first. It’s not safe out there, right now.”

“All right. I’ll be waiting.”

Etienne nodded as Winter ended the call. “Now that that is settled.” He pointed his gun at Alerich. “Tell me why I shouldn’t shoot him.”

 

[Prince of Spires]

Generally speaking, most readers will accept for your setting what your characters accept as normal. So just include both magic and technology and run with it.

I personally never see an issue with having both. If anything, that's what I'd expect in a setting with most types of magic. If magic has some kind of cost associated with it, or not everyone can do magic, then you can be certain that people will also develop technology.

In the end, technology is simply a force multiplier, in that it lets a human do something it couldn't otherwise do. A shovel is technology in that it's easier to dig a hole with one than it is to do so with your bare hands. If all humans could dig holes by simply thinking about them, they'd never invent a shovel. However, if digging a hole with your mind would cause a week-long migraine then they'd invent shovels and use the magic option if it was the only one available.

And this goes for everything. People are naturally curious. So we'd investigate stuff and learn stuff, even if it isn't directly useful, just because we want to know how it works. Just consider, the people who first researched electricity had no idea it would power our whole society. That you'd get indoor lighting and dishwashers and computers. They didn't even know that might be some future option. They just researched it because they wanted to know how it worked.

With that in mind, people would still work on technology, even if magic existed. And when they'd find something that took less effort to use than magic, they'd use it.

In a way, in the Harry Potter universe, Arthur Weasley (Ron's father), is the most human of all characters in the wizarding world.

 

[Mad Swede]

How does one fit both magic and sci fi technology into a single setting?

For context, the setting is rather low tech, roughly at an Iron Age level of technology and culture, so people are pretty superstitious.

However, there is also a lost civilization that was highly technologically advanced, though its tech was more organic in nature (eugenics, gene splicing, organic computers, creating flesh monsters, etc) instead of the standard sci fi image of mechanical technology like robots, lasers, etc. They're the reason why many monsters are lurking throughout the wilderness and dungeons.

I could have the "magic" just be lost technology misunderstood, but I still kinda want literal, arcane magic in the setting. Is there a way I can work it in without making it clash?

There are psychics in the setting, who were created by the lost empire, and most people see psionics as magic. The difference is that psionics is an innate ability (via generic experimentations) and doesn't require rituals or making pacts with an entity. So psychics are sorta-kinda a mage race.

I was thinking that arcane magic involves rituals, summonings and making pacts with spirits. Anyone can cast a spell with enough know-how, predation and the right materials, but it's time consuming and the more powerful the spell, the more complex and dangerous it is to perform. I haven't officially made up my mind, so I am open to alternative magic types.

The main thing is that it's a low magic setting. Magic exists, but it's uncommon and most of it is secretive. You're not gonna see a wizard throwing a fireball in the middle of the street.

Do you think magic and technology can work in a setting, or would they clash too much?

Let me put it this way. The characters in your setting probably wouldn't know the difference between magic and technology. So if you're writing from their perspective both are equally incomprehensible. In that sense the two wouldn't clash, in my view.

 

[pmmg]

It would be pretty cool to see your typical adventuring party come across a crashed spaceship and have to make sense of what they see. (Though more in an aliens way, and not an expedition to the barrier peaks way).

I think what you described sounds pretty cool. I am not sure what the low tech people would make of the higher tech earlier civilization, but it may not matter, they will still have to confront the monsters they invented.

Its likely they will think some of the technology is just magic, but if they get to study or have it explained, it may start to accelerate the technical advancement of the more primitive men. Heck, they might even think of some of it as divine, or maybe even a computer as a god...and what might they think of a god if the power goes out.

I dont know what issues you really have with it, generally a clash is conflict and conflict is good for stories.

 

[Saigonnus]

What if they use this higher-tech level goodies as a sort of inspiration for doing the same thing/accomplishing the same goal as the tech was used for... imagine they find a steam train, and instead of using the boilers/tracks etc... they design a form of mass transportation that uses magic propulsion instead? Or they find a cell phone... and use magic to create 2-way communication device using mirrors or something?

I had a sort of side-project I was world-building for. It was basically the answer to a question: What would a "fantasy" world look if their "magical" level had parity with our "technological" level; at least in regards of the lifestyle of the average person. Mirrors that offer 2-way communication, clusters of portals that serve like airports, boxes/containers that prevent food from spoiling, fireball rifles (mini fireballs obviously), pods that take a person where they want to go through magic (instead of Uber), and can connect to others to form "trains" that follow highways. Portals that serve as elevators inside skyscrapers. magic rune on your palm that serves the same purpose as a bank card.

 

[ThinkerX]

It would be pretty cool to see your typical adventuring party come across a crashed spaceship and have to make sense of what they see. (Though more in an aliens way, and not an expedition to the barrier peaks way).

I think what you described sounds pretty cool. I am not sure what the low tech people would make of the higher tech earlier civilization, but it may not matter, they will still have to confront the monsters they invented.

Its likely they will think some of the technology is just magic, but if they get to study or have it explained, it may start to accelerate the technical advancement of the more primitive men. Heck, they might even think of some of it as divine, or maybe even a computer as a god...and what might they think of a god if the power goes out.

I dont know what issues you really have with it, generally a clash is conflict and conflict is good for stories.

That would be 'Expedition to the Barrier Peaks,' a Greyhawk AD&D module from about forty years ago.

 

[pmmg]

Closer to 50...it was first seen in 1976. Just so I can feel older.

 

[Gurkhal]

Magic and technology can co-exist but you may have to think about why they have developed in the way they have in your setting to reach the desired current situation. So I would first decide on how prevalent and powerful you want magic to be and the same with technology. From the first post I've concluded that you've decided on this and thus what remains is to think of why it developed, or didn't, as it did.

Maybe magic dominated first and technology developed as a supplement to magic but then caught up and surpassed for cultural, or metaphysical, reasons that prevented magic from developing fast or wide enough to complete in the long run?

Maybe magic is too rare to be relied on to the same degree that technology can be accessible to almost any task by any person?

Maybe magic is stronger because technology is seen as an inferior supplement to magic for those who can't do magic, thus all the talent and resources goes to develop magic?

So maybe this ancient civilization did magic and tech in the start but then ran up against the limitations of magic in your world which meant that they transferred resources to develop technology and thus magic fell behind. But since that civilization has fallen the basis to do their technology again has been lost and thus people turn to magic, which maybe don't have the same logistical needs, and thus magic has had a renaissance over technology?

Or maybe the lost civilization did evil things with technology and left a collective trauma which means that technology is considered suspect, bad, evil, impure or whatever, while magic isn't tainted by malicious reputation and thus is seen more positively? Hence engineers would have a reputation for being morally suspect while mages would have a reputation for being morally upstanding.

 

[Saigonnus]

Here's an idea from one of my worlds. Magic is a natural force and as such has cycles of regeneration and renewal that spans centuries; if not millennia. Perhaps the magical "field"; for a lack of a better term at the moment, started to fail, and magic simply wasn't reliable, or available, so this fallen civilization was forced to rely on tech for everything. Now that it has been restored, there is no need for technology. I imagine a Oligarchic city/state etc... where mages have all the power; all the prestige, and abuse the citizens. Perhaps; as implied by Gurkhal, some small group of outliers; maybe ones that are usable to use magic, have decided to investigate the tech and to try to recreate it so they can establish a parity with those that use magic.

 

[Devor]

I could have the "magic" just be lost technology misunderstood, but I still kinda want literal, arcane magic in the setting. Is there a way I can work it in without making it clash?

I'm answering without having read the other responses. Sometimes other responses can shape the way you see a problem before you think it through yourself. I'll read them after.

I would say that level of science does create a thematic conflict with magic, but it's easy enough to resolve. You just need to consider how the two have interacted in the past.

For example, maybe science developed as a way to study the results of magic. "You've transformed a person into a cat? Hold up, let me see what your spell actually did...... did the person only change on the surface? Is there anything different between this transformed cat's heart and a real cat's heart? Any similarities with a human heart? What would cause that.... the runes on this spell, it means cat, but then you add these three runes that change the color, and size, and age of the cat, but otherwise all the spells turn them into the same cat... so what is this cat rune drawing from? A cat hair in this mystic box? Does that mean all the information needed to make a cat is found in one hair?" You know, that kind of thing.

Another example would be to look at the kinds of people who do science and the kinds of people who do magic, and draw out the conflicts between those two groups, especially in explaining why magic won out over the science. Scientists produce amazing results, but it takes so much cooperation, and support, and work from the masses to get there. But maybe the best magic comes from one wizard spending decades alone in a tower obsessing over developing their own connection with some arcane conduit. This means that it's possible to shut down the science, to destroy a population's ability to produce all their marvels, but you can't shut down the possibility that one random guy will get obsessed with magic. And if you have a small isolated country in the mountains full of corruption and poor education, scared of the big scientific super power next door, what do you do but turn to magic to hold your ground?

Tapping into the relationship between the two gives readers the impression of an interconnected world, instead of an author with a grab bag of favorite tropes.

EDIT:

After reading the other replies, I wanted to say that my answer is shaped a lot on the idea in the OP that the science was in the distant past. That's the kind of mid-late story reveal that can feel jarring if done wrong. It's a very different question if you're talking about having both magic and science in the present.

 

[D. Gray Warrior]

I'm answering without having read the other responses. Sometimes other responses can shape the way you see a problem before you think it through yourself. I'll read them after.

I would say that level of science does create a thematic conflict with magic, but it's easy enough to resolve. You just need to consider how the two have interacted in the past.

For example, maybe science developed as a way to study the results of magic. "You've transformed a person into a cat? Hold up, let me see what your spell actually did...... did the person only change on the surface? Is there anything different between this transformed cat's heart and a real cat's heart? Any similarities with a human heart? What would cause that.... the runes on this spell, it means cat, but then you add these three runes that change the color, and size, and age of the cat, but otherwise all the spells turn them into the same cat... so what is this cat rune drawing from? A cat hair in this mystic box? Does that mean all the information needed to make a cat is found in one hair?" You know, that kind of thing.

Another example would be to look at the kinds of people who do science and the kinds of people who do magic, and draw out the conflicts between those two groups, especially in explaining why magic won out over the science. Scientists produce amazing results, but it takes so much cooperation, and support, and work from the masses to get there. But maybe the best magic comes from one wizard spending decades alone in a tower obsessing over developing their own connection with some arcane conduit. This means that it's possible to shut down the science, to destroy a population's ability to produce all their marvels, but you can't shut down the possibility that one random guy will get obsessed with magic. And if you have a small isolated country in the mountains full of corruption and poor education, scared of the big scientific super power next door, what do you do but turn to magic to hold your ground?

Tapping into the relationship between the two gives readers the impression of an interconnected world, instead of an author with a grab bag of favorite tropes.

EDIT:

After reading the other replies, I wanted to say that my answer is shaped a lot on the idea in the OP that the science was in the distant past. That's the kind of mid-late story reveal that can feel jarring if done wrong. It's a very different question if you're talking about having both magic and science in the present.

Well, the science still kinda exists in the setting as a lost technology. I plan for the main characters to encounter it in their adventures, but most people in the setting aren't aware of it.

The race that created this technology was a precursor race to the modern races, and no longer exist, and would seem quite alien to the world's current inhabitants.

 

[Saigonnus]

"Alien" means it will be easy for the present inhabitants of the area to interact with something and mess something up, cause a catastrophe even. Something within the plot maybe?

 

[Fettju]

I could have the "magic" just be lost technology misunderstood, but I still kinda want literal, arcane magic in the setting. Is there a way I can work it in without making it clash?

I met a german guy yesterday who has lived in a budist temple in Thailand for twelve years, then he went to India and just walked around that continent with no money and not working for ten years.
He always got enough food handed to him to never get hungry and people always gave him a place to sleep. When he got to this village I am now, the first day in the market he met some people he had met in India ("coincidences") then later he was picking almonds, and the owner just let him live in the house they had on the almond field. When he wants to meet someone, he just visualizes that person in his mind and says/thinks "I want to see you/it would be nice to meet up" and then when he goes to the market he always meets the persons he has visualized (different person each time)
He says there is this space or light that is inside or behind our normally perceived reality and that this space/light is intelligent and loving (well basic eastern meditation stuff)

He lives in a high technology setting with iPhones, Tesla cars, solar panels etc (it's this the real world, it's a real person) and magic exists and it has nothing at all to do with technology. You just have to learn more about real life. Magic wasn't invented by some fantasy writer in the 50s or something, it's basically the practical side of religion (i.e. religion not for the masses) and there are lots of traditions. Even the boring pasé christianity we all think we already know is magic with the liturgy and bread and wine becoming the flesh and blood of a being that is the incarnation of the pattern of all realities.

 

[ThinkerX]

I met a german guy yesterday who has lived in a budist temple in Thailand for twelve years, then he went to India and just walked around that continent with no money and not working for ten years.
He always got enough food handed to him to never get hungry and people always gave him a place to sleep. When he got to this village I am now, the first day in the market he met some people he had met in India ("coincidences") then later he was picking almonds, and the owner just let him live in the house they had on the almond field. When he wants to meet someone, he just visualizes that person in his mind and says/thinks "I want to see you/it would be nice to meet up" and then when he goes to the market he always meets the persons he has visualized (different person each time)
He says there is this space or light that is inside or behind our normally perceived reality and that this space/light is intelligent and loving (well basic eastern meditation stuff)

He lives in a high technology setting with iPhones, Tesla cars, solar panels etc (it's this the real world, it's a real person) and magic exists and it has nothing at all to do with technology. You just have to learn more about real life. Magic wasn't invented by some fantasy writer in the 50s or something, it's basically the practical side of religion (i.e. religion not for the masses) and there are lots of traditions. Even the boring pasé christianity we all think we already know is magic with the liturgy and bread and wine becoming the flesh and blood of a being that is the incarnation of the pattern of all realities.

I read many somewhat similar accounts while putting my magic system together. Magic is PSI ability. The more commonly reported/investigated psi abilities became 'spells.'

 

[pmmg]

Even the boring pasé christianity we all think we already know is magic with the liturgy and bread and wine becoming the flesh and blood of a being that is the incarnation of the pattern of all realities.

Christianity is not boring, it is endlessly fascinating.

But yeah, concepts of magic are as old as humanity, and many of the things of faith in Christianity would seem magic. There is a strong message that supernatural stuff can happen, and does all the time.

Humanities oldest surviving written work is full of magic as well. Gilgamesh has many super human qualities, and seeks to talk to supernatural beings for his immortality, which ultimately he is denied, but...its still in the realm of magic.

What can you do? People like to believe in magic. Its a very old concept.

 

[Fettju]

Christianity is not boring, it is endlessly fascinating.

But yeah, concepts of magic are as old as humanity, and many of the things of faith in Christianity would seem magic. There is a strong message that supernatural stuff can happen, and does all the time.

Humanities oldest surviving written work is full of magic as well. Gilgamesh has many super human qualities, and seeks to talk to supernatural beings for his immortality, which ultimately he is denied, but...its still in the realm of magic.

What can you do? People like to believe in magic. Its a very old concept.

It doesn't seem like magic, it's the real magic.

You have for example Meditations on the Tarot by Valentin Tomberg, and Mysticism, Magic, and Monasteries: Recovering the Sacred Mystery at the Heart of Reality by Sebastian Morello.

Or just modern figures like Padre Pio or Jacques Mabit. If you want a basic introduction to magic there The Language of Creation by Matthiew Pageau.

 

[skip.knox]

I'm struck how people see variations and subtleties in "magic" yet seem to assume we all agree on what constitutes "technology".

There was a time when a horse collar and stirrups were "technology". Fertilizer is technology. At the same time, steam power was for centuries hardly more than a parlor trick. No one thought it was magic. Also, the line between what was magic and what was divine intervention was exceedingly blurry (I think someone mentioned this elsewhere).

You might get more useful answers if you said your story has X that is considered magic and I want to use Y, which I define as technology, alongside it; how would that work in a story? Something along those lines.