Three and a half years of writing ... and I still have no clue what I'm doing!

[MajinHotTuna]

Hi. First, let me also reiterate. I have a story plot (a basic overview, really), a story setting, and characters (just may need tweaks here and there). But I keep running into road block and road block and it's racking my braina round.
Like, I think I'm writing what I would like, then read again and it's so cringe, bad or whatever. I don't even know what draft number I am on.
Has anyone else had this issue? Can I talk to someone about this? And I mean like, in depth like, because I have had experience but then those people go dark and its super annoying when I have no one to talk to about this.
Sorry for the rant. I'm having a headache here.

 

[Vampyre1969]

I had a block which lasted 14 months

 

[Saigonnus]

The first draft of anything is complete trash. The most important thing is: finish something. Start to finish, terrible plotlines, boring characters, plot holes included. Anything bad can always be improved with ability and time, and practice.

For characters: I tend to assign character traits as they start (4-5 postive/neutral traits, and 1-2 negative traits) this serves the purpose of giving you a framework as to how a character might respond to the various situations they are put in. When faced with an enemy/situation, a coward's reaction would be different from someone who is confrontational, skilled, or even childish. That latter trait might mean they make jokes at the villain's expense, making them mad; which might just cause them to make mistakes. It is just something that can offer depth to a character.

For plot lines: things tend to flow from one thing to the next in a somewhat linear fashion; although not always. It's okay to throw in something that will surprise the characters, and the readers, but overall, there has to some logic to the events; from start to finish, something drawn from previous events. A villain generally won't ransack villages, kill people, be nasty, for no reason; it comes from somewhere, even their own delusions or paranoia. Maybe an oracle speaks of a prophecy that states that the person (a specific person with a specific trait/ability) who will ultimately kill them comes from a small village, so the hero knows nothing of this, but it's the cause of Lord Hanok's building paranoia. The issue comes as to what to do next: Is Lord Hanok smart enough to realize that ransacking villages will only lead to a quicker demise because that hostility might incense the locals to rise up; rally around someone who will ultimately kill him? Wouldn't "observation" serve better to gather information about the people who live in the various places, so he can try to identify the person before they themselves know there is a conflict?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

First the headache. I have chronic migraines, so this isn't my first rodeo. I have no idea whereabout you are, but my initial go-to for migraines - and bad headaches - is 2 Tylenol and 2 - 4 Benadryl. Tylenol is pure pain relief, and fairly effective for an OTC med. Benadryl is a vasodilator - makes your veins and arteries widen - and can offer relief from the pain that caused your veins to constrict.

Don't worry and don't doubt yourself. None of us has any idea what we're doing. My team has 3 novels in a long-running series and a few shorts placed in a few anthologies. I've managed to break the next two books so bad that this is attempt #4 to make the plot gel. Book 5 will be easier. I hope. My two writing partners have override authority and my wife in an incredible plotter. I literally write what I'm told to. lol

Neil Gaiman - yes, I know, I'm still using his story - tells a story about meeting Neil Armstrong at an event celebrating the giants in their various fields. They talked and watched and kind of hid behind a pillar. They thought this has to have been a mistake. Armstrong said all he'd done was fly the thing, shuffle in some dusty dirt, and plant a flag. Gaiman said all he'd done was tell a story.

Neither had any clue as to why them.

Absolutely no one in Publishing has a clue. And that sentence right there is the Central Truth of Publishing TM.

 

[Mad Swede]

Sorry? You think anyone in publishing has a clue? Let me put it this way. I have a publishing contract and four books out there, and I still have no real idea where my books are going. Sure, there's an endpoint to it all, but how I get there is a bit of a mystery right now. But the readers are enjoying things, so my publishers are selling books and I'm making some money on royalties. Sometimes I think we worry too much...

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Sorry? You think anyone in publishing has a clue? Let me put it this way. I have a publishing contract and four books out there, and I still have no real idea where my books are going. Sure, there's an endpoint to it all, but how I get there is a bit of a mystery right now. But the readers are enjoying things, so my publishers are selling books and I'm making some money on royalties. Sometimes I think we worry too much...

Oh, we do. But every time I relax, something goes wrong.

 

[Mad Swede]

Oh, we do. But every time I relax, something goes wrong.

The benefits of a military career. We're trained to deal with uncertainty.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

The benefits of a military career. We're trained to deal with uncertainty.

As it should be. I adore the ones who can rise to the moment and then they're competent and knowledgeible and I don't have to worry about them getting lost in the woods.

And, I've also known a lot who are useless in a crisis. One even had the temerity to say to me, with a raised voice, "Don't argue with me!" While sitting literally in front of the bookshelf where my research on the topic looked at him like the loser he was.

And my wife was like, "Well, that's it for him."

 

[Mad Swede]

As it should be. I adore the ones who can rise to the moment and then they're competent and knowledgeible and I don't have to worry about them getting lost in the woods.

I think it was General (Stormin') Norman Schwarzkopf who said that a military operation starts with a plan, at which point the orchestra jumps out of the pit and starts to attack the singers...

And, I've also known a lot who are useless in a crisis. One even had the temerity to say to me, with a raised voice, "Don't argue with me!" While sitting literally in front of the bookshelf where my research on the topic looked at him like the loser he was.

And my wife was like, "Well, that's it for him."

Bloody hell. Sorry. I don't think I've ever replied with those words to anyone.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I think it was General (Stormin') Norman Schwarzkopf who said that a military operation starts with a plan, at which point the orchestra jumps out of the pit and starts to attack the singers...

Bloody hell. Sorry. I don't think I've ever replied with those words to anyone.

And it really is the perfect metaphor. lol

And the same with me... I hope? Yeah, he was toast and between that and being useless - and a slob, 3 strikes) we sent his ass back to Florida.

Funny part, another guy I was seeing also played WoW, like me, and he would jump factions and camp the idiot's ass from one end of the battlegrounds to the other. He did this for 3 days. lol Also, very good in emergencies.

 

[pmmg]

Write it ugly <--give yourself permission to. Nothing beats that for getting words on page. All words can be fixed expect those not written. Write it ugly is the only way to plow through.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

Write it ugly <--give yourself permission to. Nothing beats that for getting words on page. All words can be fixed expect those not written. Write it ugly is the only way to plow through.

And you can even sketch out scenes from their bare bones, like this. We do a lot of scene sketching, mostly me getting down words and sensations and basic scene choreography, and bits and pieces, and then we throw it all into a pile (rhetorically) and see what it looks like. I've even gone with really sketchy notes, like, "Big Battle Here." Yeah. Faerie Rising is flawed, and that right there is what caused it. Me.

~~~
From As-Yet Trilogy in Development...

Tyrell working on a new song, head bent over his instrument.
Arik, pauses as he walks by: Bit pervy.
Tyrell: *notes something and tries the line again* Too pervy?
Arik: No, not yet.
Tyrell: Hmmm… Tell me when I hit Pervy Central.
Arik: Date tonight?
Tyrell: *grins* Not yet.
Arik: *chuckles* Who this time?
Briar: *bursts out laughing from the other side of her armchair* Jorges. That hot new bouncer at the Peach.
Arik: Not the new girl?
Tyrell: Working. She's lovely, but I don't want to take her away from earning her gold. *smile widens a bit more* But I wouldn't toss the lass out of bed for eating crackers. What she says, goes. I just have respect, you know.
Briar: Sure you do, Tyrell Man-Whore.
Tyrell: *whips the end of his pen in her direction* You foul my illustrious name with your cheek.
Briar: I'll show you some cheek.
Arik: And that's my cue to go meet with Father.

 

[skip.knox]

From your post I hear two problems. One is roadblocks. Can you share one or two specifics about that?

The other is that you don't like your writing. That's not at all uncommon. You may be right. Maybe the writing is awful. Then again, maybe it's good but could be improved. Then again, maybe it's brilliant.

But you're a new writer. Why do you think you're the one to judge? More to the point, maybe it's a bad idea to listen to your own misgivings to the point where it keeps you from writing, or makes you endlessly rewrite the same scenes. Which is another way of saying what others said above; namely, just keep writing. Don't judge your work until it's complete. You wouldn't judge half a painting, would you?

For myself, I dislike most of what a write. Actually, I tend to like it as I'm writing it, but upon looking at it the next day or next month, I really and truly think it's pretty bad, maybe not even salvageable. But I keep going because that's what I did on my first project and eventually I finished it and it's a book and it's done and at least some people like it. Then I did it again. Then I did it again. By now, as darkly discouraged as I get, I "trust the process" as they say. I believe I can make a finished product because I've done it before. But boy it's ugly getting there, and boy it was a desperate slog that first time out.

But never mind the encouragement. Tell me about the roadblocks.

 

[Gurkhal]

Welcome to the club. You are now certified to have writing as a hobby.

 

[Miles Lacey]

Here are some of the road blocks I've faced over the years:

1. Past experience of publishing stuff that was trashed by others.
2. Reading too many "How to write..." guides.
3. Reading too many mind-blowing examples of great first lines and first paragraphs.
4. Being intimidated by fantasy books big enough i could break the foot of a Jehovah's Witness by dropping one on their foot.
5. Reading fantasy novels that were totally epic and realising this was beyond my capabilities.
6. The deaths of people I knew and, in particular, the death of my sister last year.
7. Living in a small country with a limited market which means that even if I do get it published and it sells well I still won't earn enough to pay the bills.
8. The self-censor inside my head that sounds like Colin Mochrie from Whos Line Is It Anyway? screaming "Stop! Stop! Stop! This is complete and utter crap!"

So how do I overcome them? I ignore the guides, laugh at the great first lines, stop trying to write fantasy epics because I know it's beyond my skills, pretend I don't live in a small country and drown the self censor in my head with alcohol. And, of course, I write and be damned about the consequences.

Can't do much about what other people think or people who die, though.

 

[DesinKalaScribe]

This is exactly how I felt throughout writing my book. I went through three complete re-writes. I changed major character personalities/archetypes entirely. Added a whole new layer of motivations to side characters. I barely got through the first quarter of the book on the first draft before I decided the whole thing was trash. So many instances of me looking at it and going, "well this sucks." But it was important to identify why I thought it sucked, which improved the story. So when I went back and rewrote, I was able to avoid doing that again.

I'm editing the final copy now, and I find myself saying, "I think this is actually pretty good" way more often than before.

Stick with it. You'll get there!

 

[Prince of Spires]

Some good advice in the thread here alread. I'll take a different stab at it.

Like, I think I'm writing what I would like, then read again and it's so cringe, bad or whatever.

First, realize this is perfectly normal. Writing is an art form. And like all art forms, they take a lot of practice to get good. It's quite similar to playing a musical instrument really. I don't know if you've ever played a musical instrument, but if not, then pick up a guitar or sit behind a piano and try to play something. Doesn't matter what, even if it's the easiest song out there. It will sound terrible.

The same goes for writing. Now, you likely have more experience with stories than with music simply due to exposure to stories. You know what a plot looks like, and characters, and a setting. However, writing words on a page is much more than that. It's putting all the notes one after another, matching them to a beat and putting your personality in them. It takes practice to do that.

So sit down and write. Practice and accept that your first few attempts will read like the first few songs someone played when they first learned to play the piano.

Some more pointers:
- It's okay to let your current project rest and start with something new. If you've been working on something a long time, you can end up with too many different directions a project is going in. Or you could have learned a lot about writing and now your skill is much better than the start and you just want to fix it.
- If you try a new project, then consider writing a novella (so 20k - 50k words). They're a lot more manageable than a 200k epic. Short stories can also work, but they're their own thing, while a novella sits much closer to a novel.
- Fan fiction is actually a great place to practice. You can borrow someone else's characters and world, and you don't have to worry about all that. For many people, it also drops the pressure of having to write something brilliant because it's just fan fiction anyway. Which lets you get in a lot of practice.
- try to identify why you're blocked. Is it just that you think your writing is bad? Or is there some flaw in the story and your subconcious is complaining about it?
- Just remember that it takes a lot of words and a lot of time to finish a story. At 500 words per hour (which is a decent pace), a 100k word novel takes 200 hours. Accept that you'll be spending that time and just roll with it.

 

[Karlin]

I just sent a draft to my editor, and I have all these misgivings. I was going to write her all of my doubts and worries, but I stopped myself. She'll figure it out. My guess is that the crap I was worried about won't bother her, and she'll find a bunch of other things to fix.

I'm hoping that she'll say "great, but needs fixing." and not "oh, this is not good at all"

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I just sent a draft to my editor, and I have all these misgivings. I was going to write her all of my doubts and worries, but I stopped myself. She'll figure it out. My guess is that the crap I was worried about won't bother her, and she'll find a bunch of other things to fix.

I'm hoping that she'll say "great, but needs fixing." and not "oh, this is not good at all"

You deserve an ice cream. Even just sending the manuscript off to an editor takes moxey. Go you! My editor is my wife. Think that makes things easier? I bet your editor doesn't laugh at your typos from 18 inches away.

On the other hand, she's awfully cute.

 

[minta]

Rewriting until everything feels cringe is way more common than you think. You are not alone. I think talking it through usually help.