How to set the scene.

[HopefullAA]

How do you get better at describing surroundings without slowing a scene down too much? I tend to focus heavily on dialogue and characters and realize afterward that I barely described where they are. ive noticed my chapters are a little short because one of my biggest flaws I've noticed is I'm bad with making surroundings feel real or easy to imagine.

 

[pmmg]

The best way to get good at writing is to review the crap out of other ppls stuff.

 

[Prince of Spires]

That's what the second draft is for. You can always add in the details when editing the story.

Also, keep in mind that every writer is different. Some give loads of descriptions while others give just enough to set the scene, and you find everything in between. If you're unsure, give the story to a beta reader and ask their opinion.

As for how to do it, practice and the "rule of three". The rule of three is that 3 is the ideal number of details to give. It's enough for people to remember (most people will have trouble remembering more than 3 details at a time) but not so many that it slows down the story. Sprinkle it into the dialogue and action and don't just have it as a blob at the start.

A good excercise is to write a scene 3 times. Each time, pick a different character and describe what they see. For instance, have the character walk across a marketplace. What do they see? Maybe they perform a drop or try to prevent one. Or maybe they just need groceries. But a spy will see the market differently from a child and different again from a woman taking her fish to market. Or whatever.

 

[HopefullAA]

That's what the second draft is for. You can always add in the details when editing the story.

Also, keep in mind that every writer is different. Some give loads of descriptions while others give just enough to set the scene, and you find everything in between. If you're unsure, give the story to a beta reader and ask their opinion.

As for how to do it, practice and the "rule of three". The rule of three is that 3 is the ideal number of details to give. It's enough for people to remember (most people will have trouble remembering more than 3 details at a time) but not so many that it slows down the story. Sprinkle it into the dialogue and action and don't just have it as a blob at the start.

A good excercise is to write a scene 3 times. Each time, pick a different character and describe what they see. For instance, have the character walk across a marketplace. What do they see? Maybe they perform a drop or try to prevent one. Or maybe they just need groceries. But a spy will see the market differently from a child and different again from a woman taking her fish to market. Or whatever.

i like you strat but i write in POV for one character per chapter so i cant do that one last part exactly. the other parts were very helpful though thank you

 

[Karlin]

The best way to get good at writing is to review the crap out of other ppls stuff.

I know you always say that, but I disagree. I say: Read a lot, and write as much as you can."

 

[pmmg]

We will remain in disagreement then.

There are many ways to the same destination. I choose to advocate the one that my wisdom tells me is the fastest and most effective path.

 

[Romy]

i like you strat but i write in POV for one character per chapter so i cant do that one last part exactly. the other parts were very helpful though thank you

Doesn't need to be in the book. Try from another character. Or even a 'fly on the wall'. It just helps you visualize the scene.
You are the creator, nothing you can't do

 

[JBCrowson]

"The best way to get good at writing is to review the crap out of other ppls stuff."

"I know you always say that, but I disagree. I say: Read a lot, and write as much as you can."

I don't think these two ideas are mutually self exclusive. You can't review without reading first, and I find since starting writing, I'm unconsciously analysing everything I read even if I'm not doing do deliberately.

Oh and I agree that it makes my own writing better. It is also the way that most helps me out of a period of block.

 

[pmmg]

Im gonna say these two are not the same. One is reading, maybe evaluating, maybe just enjoying…or hating. The other is looking for how to improve the story, how to say it and putting in writing. Do that 100 times and you will have a much better feel for what makes a story work and how to present. And you will have a much sharper inner editor. <—and you did not have the burden of being blind to your own.

 

[skip.knox]

>I tend to focus heavily on dialogue and characters and realize afterward that I barely described where they are.
I have a tendency to do this, too. It's nearly always in first draft, and I think I know why I do it. It's because in the first draft I'm primarily struggling with figuring out what happens and how. Some folks use the phrase: telling the story to myself. I'm focused on the character interplay, plus a bit of stage mechanics--who is where, when. Sensory description, emotional descriptions, these often get neglected.

I have and do try to get those thing in on the first draft, not least because once in a while those things actually cause changes in how the scene plays out. They're more than just decoration. But the more focused I get, the faster I'm moving through that first draft, the less attention those descriptive elements receive.

After a while, with enough books behind me, I stopped calling them bad habits and started calling them my process. It's how I work. Doesn't mean I don't work on my craft. The goal is still to get all of it in there on the first draft, so the damn thing doesn't squirrel around on me so much.

If that's you, or at least it's you right now, then you're off to a good start. You recognize a need. The place to practice is exactly on that second draft. Take the advice about writing from different POVs. Only one will make it into the final, but it's exercise of the authorial muscles. Those others aren't wasted effort, they're practice. Every artist has a high practice to performance ratio.

And, as you go, take the other advice. Read. Do some critiquing, either in a critique group or online, or even on your own. There's lots of things a writer can do beyond working on the WIP.

 

[RoccO]

I have to read books to better know characters better. How it works, how it is different. I sit sometimes and watch people, I know it is creepy. There are patterns you can discern, but there is a lot I do not know about people. I call it as I see it. A lot can change in one situation to another.

For example, different age groups act in mesmerising ways and a lot goes wrong in between. You can glance at someone one way and learn how to read patterns.

If there is a couple, they seem to be getting along in public, but in private they argue like chimps. A friend group may want to tell you gossip they should not, gang signs might lead you astray across territorial lines.

 

[Karlin]

Im gonna say these two are not the same. One is reading, maybe evaluating, maybe just enjoying…or hating. The other is looking for how to improve the story, how to say it and putting in writing. Do that 100 times and you will have a much better feel for what makes a story work and how to present. And you will have a much sharper inner editor. <—and you did not have the burden of being blind to your own.

I don't see the advantage in analyzing poor writing, rather than learning from good writing.

 

[Genly]

I don't see the advantage in analyzing poor writing, rather than learning from good writing.

I guess this argument would be valid if these were the only two types of writing i.e. good and bad. But there is an awful lot of "almost good" writing. If you can figure out how to turn someone else's "almost good" work into "good", you can learn how to do the same for your own "almost good" writing. Still, it does help if you have examples of someone else's "good" writing, as an idea of what to work towards.

 

[RoccO]

I don't see the advantage in analyzing poor writing, rather than learning from good writing.

Good writing is when you can think for yourself, therefore everything is good.

I guess this argument would be valid if these were the only two types of writing i.e. good and bad.

There are three types of writing: one about romance, one about battle, and one about both.

 

[pmmg]

I did not actually say that is was bad writing. Some is some isnt.

Maybe it would be more understandable to say the best way to learn something is try to teach it.

 

[RoccO]

Some is some isnt.

It is about what you can get on the page. Not what you store in your mind.

 

[casval]

I agree these things can be worked on in the edit, or in the second draft. Writing and finishing a work is more useful than worrying about if it's good.

When I'm writing to set the scene, I think about four pieces of (almost) every scene: story, characters, atmosphere, and themes. Each piece is part of the book I am writing, and each one can guide what is worth focusing on in any given scene.

For story, I want to be sure anything important to moving the plot forward is set up before it occurs. The classic example here is Chekhov's gun; if a character is going to take a gun off a wall and start shooting, establish that there is a gun on the wall before that happens. This can apply to all sorts of things, though. If your character is going to escape the dungeon by reaching the keys on the wall, have him look around - he'd be looking for the keys, and he'd take note of the broom that might be able to reach them.

For characters, especially POV characters, I am looking to establish or reinforce things about their personalities, skills, and position in society. For example, if my POV character is a thief, they are more likely to take notice of items in a room of high value. Art, jewels, etc. They may also notice escape routes, i.e. doors and windows. If a character is introduced in a scene, it's a good opportunity to set up some basic character traits: a knight might be wearing armor, or carrying a sword; a noblewoman might be wearing finer fabrics, or an especially beautiful piece of jewelry.

For atmosphere, this can vary a lot but can often be what best decides how much description a scene requires. A tense, scary scene can use a lot of atmosphere - horror novels can go ages without any dialogue or plot movement because a character is simply creeping through a spooky house, and the prose describes every creaking floor board, the smell of mold coming from the walls, the cobwebs between the railings on the stairwell, and so on. Romance scenes tend to be similar, you are lingering in the moment. But an action scene, the characters are less likely to be taking in their surroundings to the same extent - short, choppy descriptions often sell the moment.

As for themes, I'd say this doesn't come up in every scene the same way the first three do, but it can help round out a novel. Themes tend to be a bit more complex than a quick example can give, but I'll try to give a couple of simple examples. If your story deals with, say, an evil king your hero seeks to dethrone, you might take a moment when entering a new village to describe the poverty. Peasants taxed too much to feed themselves, bandits raiding without the protection of knights, that sort of thing. If your story is about a druid, with nature magic and such, you might focus on what plants are in a scene: the sorts of trees in the woods, the mushrooms in the cave, the flowers in a garden.

Also, re: editing vs. reading as a way to learn writing, both have their place. I worked as an editor for a few years, and it definitely helps hone the technical skills of writing and see more clearly where in your own writing needs to be punched up... but if you aren't reading great, complete books, your expectations for yourself will be lowered and you may lack the vision of the high heights your writing could achieve with patience and craft. Of course, being an editor, I often find myself passively editing books I read for leisure as well. it takes a true master of the craft to leave me without any notes in the margins, haha.

 

[RoccO]

If your story deals with, say, an evil king your hero seeks to dethrone, you might take a moment when entering a new village to describe the poverty.

I had a story like that. It dealt with fantasy creatures and magic, but I could not find a plot besides an evil king from another land. It was not spectacular or dark, it was a usual furry adventure with sword fighting, street urchins, hooded strangers. I got the idea from the usual books, I was reading and kind of combined all the best and worst elements that stuck on me, and it became a simple story about a hack and slash DND band of treasure hunters and a rebellion. It went on for a few chapters, but it became generic and the same things dwindled down into a passive narrative leading to nowhere and meaning nothing.

The best way to draw meaning, from a bit of imagination is to feed into it something different and spicy. There might be a place that is difficult to tread so they tread there, a fork in the road where travellers depart to later meet in different conditions, you might have a love interest or a wounded assailant, the very things that would add flavour to the mix. I had none of these things - it was about the gore, the thrill, and maybe even the sanctuary of differing media, all culminating into one hodgepodge of disaster and annihilation. The plot was hard to figure out, and in the end the ghost of the king ascended. The four heroes returned home. The rebellion ceased and hard labor returned to the peaceful tilling of the land.

A tense, scary scene can use a lot of atmosphere - horror novels can go ages without any dialogue or plot movement because a character is simply creeping through a spooky house, and the prose describes every creaking floor board, the smell of mould coming from the walls, the cobwebs between the railings on the stairwell, and so on.

The most interesting stories arrive from computer games, horror games, side-scrollers, things like that. They are generic, and might paint a picture for you. They are not terribly new, to the market in most cases, and the cutscenes can be simple yet rewarding. There are plenty of books that site games and visa versa as their inspiration, LOTR being a common example, and it is hard when that is taken away from a person. They can dwindle in the dark places, for hours if they do not have their controller. That is why I make sure I draw from a vast range of inspiration and imagine events that can happen both on and off the page whilst retaining some amount of credibility.

Whether that has an effect on my over all writing is questionable, I doubt I would recognise any difference besides a misplaced grammar or punctuation mark, but it leaves space in my mind to think, and that is rewarding in itself.

 

[pmmg]

It is about what you can get on the page. Not what you store in your mind.

I dont follow what you are saying here. if it is along the lines of there is no bad writing. I dont agree. There surely is.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I'm notorious for very streamlined descriptions. Just the facts, sir. I'm also heavily trained in poetry. These two make for really interesting Urban Fantasy. We write with lyrical language at a thriller pace. It really does work.

~Pause to comment. There is only one rule to writing. Writers write. All else is process. Everyone play nice, please. We're all friends here.~

When I do describe, I go for the gold. This is what it looks like when I'm full of words and they want to play. Notice I'm juggling several balls, and they all have to hit in the right place.

~~~

Winter smiled and slipped her hand into his. “The library is here.” She led the way across the foyer, his warm fingers entwined with hers, to the tall double doors carved with a massive, twisting tree bearing books as fruit.

Alerich looked delighted. “Clever. Very clever.”

But when she pushed the doors open, the tree splitting down the trunk, his smile vanished, to be replaced with rapture and as he stepped inside and he looked up, and up, all the way to the third story where books were shelved to the House’s rafters until they disappeared into shadows. The stacks stretched away from them in a literary labyrinth, dotted here and there with reading alcoves and research tables. And everywhere there were books; lining the walls, filling the shelves, leaning in towers in the corners where Winter’s father, Colin, once the Keeper of the Library, had left them before his death.

Alerich moved among the shelves and stroked book spines with a lover’s hands, lips moving as he read the titles to himself. He stopped at an enclosed case, his fingertips on the edge of the glass, and let out a reverent breath. “Do you know what this is?”

Winter smiled, mischief playing about the corners of her lips. “I think it’s a book.”

Alerich barely pulled his eyes away for a moment to glance at her and amusement danced there. “Yes, it’s a book.”

“It’s an old one, too.”

He chuckled, a little short of breath. “You have a First Folio.”