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Character Vs. Plot: Which is more important?
- Thread starter Devora
- Start date
Character.
Great characters can overcome a mundane plot. I wouldn't consider the reverse to be true.
Great characters can overcome a mundane plot. I wouldn't consider the reverse to be true.
I agree with T.Allen.Smith. Further, bad characters can destroy a great plot.
Character. But really it depends on what you're writing and how. I think there are definitely styles which an author can deploy to compensate for poor characterization skills. And a poor plot bugs me to no end. But people read primarily for the characters, and that unique emotional journey is the most effective way to leave a lasting impression with your readers.
WyrdMystic
Inkling
Take either away and you have nothing. Which should have greater emphasis - characters most definitely. But without plot they just sit round scratching their backsides, staring into the middle distance.
IMO, good characterisation can't overcome a bad plot and neither can a good plot overcome bad characterisation. Sure there are things that I watch, for instance, jsut for the hell of it even if I know they're bad - maybe to have a laugh or to spend some time not having to think much - but I wouldn't invest my time in a novel in the same way.
IMO, good characterisation can't overcome a bad plot and neither can a good plot overcome bad characterisation. Sure there are things that I watch, for instance, jsut for the hell of it even if I know they're bad - maybe to have a laugh or to spend some time not having to think much - but I wouldn't invest my time in a novel in the same way.
Character, certainly. I'd also have to disagree with WyrdMystic - I'm sure I've seen shows/read stories where there is no interesting plot to speak of, but the characters themselves are engaging enough to carry it all.
Jabrosky
Banned
I voted character too for the same reasons as everyone else. I actually have an easier time conceiving of characters than I do plot lines anyway.
Sparkie
Auror
Like everyone else so far, I voted Character. But I'm not sure of what the question entails. The question asks "Which is more important?" In reply, I'd like to ask "Important to what? Important to who?" Is this question for a reader? A writer? A publisher?
I assume, since this is a storytellers forum, that we approach the question as writers. If so, then I'd stick with what I voted for and say that if I had to choose between being a good character-builder and a good plot-builder, I'm going with the former.
Still, the part of me that enjoys reading is nagging me about plot. I enjoy reading a good plot. Do I enjoy reading a good plot more than reading a good character's POV? Depends on the writer, I suppose. Hercule Poirot was a very good character, but Agatha Christie's true talent lay in weaving an outstanding plot.
If you're looking to get published, I'd stick with character over plot. Agents, editors, and executives know what sells, and great POV's do sell very well.
I assume, since this is a storytellers forum, that we approach the question as writers. If so, then I'd stick with what I voted for and say that if I had to choose between being a good character-builder and a good plot-builder, I'm going with the former.
Still, the part of me that enjoys reading is nagging me about plot. I enjoy reading a good plot. Do I enjoy reading a good plot more than reading a good character's POV? Depends on the writer, I suppose. Hercule Poirot was a very good character, but Agatha Christie's true talent lay in weaving an outstanding plot.
If you're looking to get published, I'd stick with character over plot. Agents, editors, and executives know what sells, and great POV's do sell very well.
Darkblade
Troubadour
I voted plot, mostly because I consider characters to be a part of plot. A character may be the most in depth, realistic and fully fleshed out person you can possibly devise but without a plot they exist within a vacuum, with nothing to do but sit there are try to engage you.
Good characters may help a story but without a plot there just is no story to begin with.
Good characters may help a story but without a plot there just is no story to begin with.
wordwalker
Auror
terminology
I'm sorry, I've seen polls like this in other forums, and people always choose character over plot. And I'm not sure it's for the obvious reason.
I think this says less about the importance of the two than how we writers tend to think of "plot" as something more separated from other writing elements, while "character" seems to draw in how much everything comes together to make a good character. Example, Indiana Jones: he's got a lot of appeal from how Harrison Ford makes him fun, but even more because he's just the center of some great movies-- and yet people describe him as simply "a classic character."
I'm not trying to attack character, or say it couldn't actually be more important. (I did a "Character-centered" blog post last year that found a number of reasons to keep character on top.) But I think it's hard to separate any of these elements from each other when we're talking in large terms, and harder yet in this particular case.
EDIT: thanks, Darkblade. There really is more than one way to look at these.
I'm sorry, I've seen polls like this in other forums, and people always choose character over plot. And I'm not sure it's for the obvious reason.
I think this says less about the importance of the two than how we writers tend to think of "plot" as something more separated from other writing elements, while "character" seems to draw in how much everything comes together to make a good character. Example, Indiana Jones: he's got a lot of appeal from how Harrison Ford makes him fun, but even more because he's just the center of some great movies-- and yet people describe him as simply "a classic character."
I'm not trying to attack character, or say it couldn't actually be more important. (I did a "Character-centered" blog post last year that found a number of reasons to keep character on top.) But I think it's hard to separate any of these elements from each other when we're talking in large terms, and harder yet in this particular case.
EDIT: thanks, Darkblade. There really is more than one way to look at these.
There's certainly interconnection between character and plot. I don't think anyone is disputing that. The OPs question simply asked which we each think is more important.
A writer's own opinion likely derives from how characters & plots are conceived. For my writing, I first create characters that are different from one another in terms of their histories, cultures, belief systems, etc. By forcing them into action (for or against one another) I generate major plot lines & sub-plots.
A writer that creates plots first, then creates characters to react to those events, may see the importance of either entirely different. In all honesty, I work with both methods but I lean heavily towards character creation as a foundation.
A writer's own opinion likely derives from how characters & plots are conceived. For my writing, I first create characters that are different from one another in terms of their histories, cultures, belief systems, etc. By forcing them into action (for or against one another) I generate major plot lines & sub-plots.
A writer that creates plots first, then creates characters to react to those events, may see the importance of either entirely different. In all honesty, I work with both methods but I lean heavily towards character creation as a foundation.
Xaysai
Inkling
For me, it's pretty easy: character.
Why?
I just looked through my bookcase of everything I've read over the last ~10 years and I can describe FAR MORE about the characters in these books than I can about the exact plot details.
Why?
I just looked through my bookcase of everything I've read over the last ~10 years and I can describe FAR MORE about the characters in these books than I can about the exact plot details.
Mindfire
Istar
I voted plot because I enjoy being contrary sometimes. And also because I tend to think of plots first and think of characters to act them out afterwards. It's kind of like my book is a movie and my characters are the actors. I write the script, they follow it. If they have a few issues or changes they'd like to be made, I'll oblige them. Especially if it makes the work better. But if they outright object to the part I've cast them in, I'll fire them and get someone else.
But even that is an oversimplification I think. Maybe I'm just weird, but writing has been an iterative process for me. Plot determines characters, who then alter the plot, which then changes the characters, who then alter the plot, etc. The result being that my plot has gone through countless small changes and several large ones, and my cast has changed just as much if not more. I've gone through three different phases with my main character. At first he was cast as a 12/13 year old, then a teenager, and now he's a young adult in his early 20s. (Of course, that might have more to do with him maturing as I do than it does with the plot itself.)
But like I said, I'm odd. I'm kinda like Christopher Nolan (yes, I realize that's a really egotistical comparison), I'm not a touchy-feely kinda guy and I tend to latch on to plot a bit more than characters. That's part of why I actively avoid writing romance.
But even that is an oversimplification I think. Maybe I'm just weird, but writing has been an iterative process for me. Plot determines characters, who then alter the plot, which then changes the characters, who then alter the plot, etc. The result being that my plot has gone through countless small changes and several large ones, and my cast has changed just as much if not more. I've gone through three different phases with my main character. At first he was cast as a 12/13 year old, then a teenager, and now he's a young adult in his early 20s. (Of course, that might have more to do with him maturing as I do than it does with the plot itself.)
But like I said, I'm odd. I'm kinda like Christopher Nolan (yes, I realize that's a really egotistical comparison), I'm not a touchy-feely kinda guy and I tend to latch on to plot a bit more than characters. That's part of why I actively avoid writing romance.
It' a hard decision, mate, but I think I'll get through this.
Plot. Elementary to explain. Characters are important for the emotional and moral development of the story but these voids can also be filled by a detailed and determined plot. If you remain detached from the character, in my opinion, is no big deal as long as you are primarily conscious with the happenings in the story and are satisfied.
Plot. Elementary to explain. Characters are important for the emotional and moral development of the story but these voids can also be filled by a detailed and determined plot. If you remain detached from the character, in my opinion, is no big deal as long as you are primarily conscious with the happenings in the story and are satisfied.
FatCat
Maester
Gonna have to agree with the majority and say character. I believe a good plot is derived from the character, i.e. Jamie Lannister in SoIaF. Anyone can plot someones hand being cut off, but what made it so epic was Jamie's vanity and pride. If you build a plot that doesn't conform to a well-thought character, then you're placing a surrogate within a story. That doesn't sound very appealing to me, I want a real story! 
BWFoster78
Myth Weaver
I think there are very few opinions I've seen on this forum that I disagree with more than this one.
Yes, you can certainly create a story while being detached from the character. IMO, it's difficult in the extreme to create a story I'd even consider wanting to read in such a manner, though.
Mindfire
Istar
Gonna have to agree with the majority and say character. I believe a good plot is derived from the character, i.e. Jamie Lannister in SoIaF. Anyone can plot someones hand being cut off, but what made it so epic was Jamie's vanity and pride. If you build a plot that doesn't conform to a well-thought character, then you're placing a surrogate within a story. That doesn't sound very appealing to me, I want a real story!
See, I think there might be a bit of a semantics issue here. Take an example from my WIP:
My main character, Reuben, is a king, hunter-warrior, firecaster, and something of a vengeful hothead. He's called in by his best friend Prince Elyas to investigate a sinister plot, etc. etc. Now this is supposed to be a secret mission, so Elyas tells Reuben not to leave any evidence or kill anybody. Reuben goes in and discovers that the baddie's henchmen are constructing their world's equivalent of WMDs. So, remembering his best friend's instructions to maintain a low profile and report whatever he finds, he immediately slaughters everyone in the place and burns the compound to the ground. Elyas is not thrilled. The event completely wrecks their friendship, ends up actually giving the villains the upper hand, gets Reuben temporarily banned from his own kindgom, and on top of all that- Elyas dies. All because of Reuben's one bad choice.
Now I ask you, is this domino tragedy a function of plot or character?
BWFoster78
Myth Weaver
Always a problem to discuss things without defining the terms first...
Character and plot are intertwined so much that it is difficult to separate which is more important. I say Character as a way of advocating against your story being driven so much by "what" is happening that you forget to filter those events through the emotional lens of a character.
One of my main principles of storytelling is that Events have no meaning without emotional context. A billion people dying is a statistic. One man whose suffering is shown to the reader is impactful.
Character and plot are intertwined so much that it is difficult to separate which is more important. I say Character as a way of advocating against your story being driven so much by "what" is happening that you forget to filter those events through the emotional lens of a character.
One of my main principles of storytelling is that Events have no meaning without emotional context. A billion people dying is a statistic. One man whose suffering is shown to the reader is impactful.
Mindfire
Istar
See, I define plot as "that which is intentionally designed by the author"- the art and artifice of storytelling. If it's the result of intentional design and you have any control over it whatsoever, it's plot. So basically, everything is plot.
All serves the plot, and the plot is all. HAIL THE PLOT! :insertevillaughhere
All serves the plot, and the plot is all. HAIL THE PLOT! :insertevillaughhere
Agreed. Great example.
Stories which are plot driven, pale in comparison to those that show a world through character POVs. I just don't see how a story driven by itself is remotely as interesting as one that we get to live through within the skull of another person. It's the ultimate voyeuristic experience that draws me into a story. Great characters immerse me into a plot. A great plot doesn't have the same power to make me care about characters.
There are theories that claim there are a limited number of plots and a limited number of character archetypes. I think most of us would agree that, as writers, we are repackaging plots and characters in different, fresh ways...maybe odd combinations. However, the number of available plot lines, if you subscribe to these theories, is far smaller than the potential number of character combinations.
If plots are of greater importance, wouldn't all stories be stale and unimaginative at this point? I'd think so. Different characters, forced into opposition or alliance, the odd mixing of cultures & ideologies, personality & belief differences, goals & motivations, etc. Yes, the lines blur on what is considered plot and what is character here. Yet, the imaginative & creative parts that combine to make a modern story, a story that feels new, lies in the realm of characters that readers & viewers care about. Otherwise, rotating and combining the same old plots, well that would likely be very uninteresting.
Let's assume i have a static selection of 5 characters. Next, we take all possible plots, write them down on slips of paper and place them into a bag, drawing out 5 plot lines. We do this 5 times and write a story for each to analyze the results. Next, we do the opposite,5 plot lines, drawing characters from all possible combinations..... Now, which stories, once written, would seem the most original when compared to everything else written through time? I'd have to think the character driven stories would offer greater diversity.
The potential for any sort of originality and fresh story making lies in character creation and interaction. If you're relying on plot to perform this function, I feel you're missing the boat.
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