Is it possible to have non-cliché dwarfs?

[Demesnedenoir]

First the answer to the heading: Yes, but once you call a people dwarfs or dwarves, you are fighting headwinds. It’s similar with orcs... but orcs are interesting because you could just as well call orcs Nazis, terrorists, Imperial Stormtroopers, etc. So, it depends on the level of cliche one looks for.

So much depends on definition... I have a wild multitude of races based on alternative lines of evolution with “magical” genetic manipulation by beings called “gods”. There is a culture (short-mannish, but not a “race”) who hang in the mountains, but they could just be Swiss? Heheh. I nibble around the edges of classic races. Culture is heavily influenced by natural resources, and their mountains supply ore, so mining is common. Most of these Kingdomers live outdoors, but a large % commute under the mountain to work and worship, as the religion requires pilgrimages to the eight primary shrines of the relgion, all of which are located on/in eight peaks in the mountain chain.

 

[bdcharles]

I think GRRM hangs a lampshade on this pretty neatly, by having Tyrion Lannister as a run-of-the-mill person with something like achondroplasia. What are the options? Tolkienesque/fairytale-esque dwarves with ruddy cheeks and a penchant for real ale (for which I salute them), general dwarfism, or what? It depends what you want your dwarves to do, or to symbolise. If you want non-cliché dwarves, you may have to do without the ready-made signifiers, cultural references and atmosphere that such characters bring. What about another type of person that happens to be small, like a race of diminutive bank clerks?

Or something...

 

[Mythopoet]

Sigh. I really wish people would get it through their heads that "cliché" is entirely in the mind of the writer/reader.

 

[Peat]

A quick google search suggests it started with a popular book in the 50s and has been a D&D trope ever since - and it may also have something to do with Scotland being known in Britain for its mines and multiple similarities to the Noremen where the dwarves came from.

That's news to me. South Wales, yes, Yorkshire & Northumbria, yes, Cornwall, yes, Scotland...? I'm sure they had some because everywhere has some, but I've no idea where.

If there's any cultural associations in Britain that'd tie in deeply with Scots & D&D Dwarves being similar, its probably a reputation for being homicidal alcoholics. Not a nice stereotype to have about your neighbours, but heavily ingrained never the less.

edit: Oh. And miserly/money obsessed.

 

[Gurkhal]

Of course you can have original Dwarfs. Although to be honest I'd ask that if you want to add such an iconic fantasy race as the Dwarfs and you're not planning on following convention with them, maybe another race or a culture of humans would work just as well?

The big thing I see with breaking convention is that there's alot of reader expectation tied into, for example, what Dwarfs are about and so breaking the convention to hard means that I don't really understand why the Dwarfs were included in the first go. Better then to try and get something that don't carry as much luggage with it.

 

[StepIntoTheRoad]

The big thing I see with breaking convention is that there's alot of reader expectation tied into, for example, what Dwarfs are about and so breaking the convention to hard means that I don't really understand why the Dwarfs were included in the first go. Better than to try and get something that don't carry as much luggage with it.

Gurkhal's statement is what I thought when I read the title of the thread. Sure you can make them different but if you're going to do that jump in with two feet and make something with no baggage. This concept of calling them something else was mentioned before by Insolent Lad:

H.G. Wells's morlocks could be considered a rather extreme take on the whole dark elf/dwarf tradition.

More recently than H.G. Wells, the Walking Dead did something similar. They don't call them zombies they call them something else. Given, I don't know what they call them because I only watched a few episodes of the show, but whenever I call them zombies in front of an avid fan I get chastised so I know they're zombies but not called zombies. So unless you want to inherit some of the stereotypes, you might consider calling them something else.

 

[Saigonnus]

I personally agree with much that has been said. IF you call them "dwarves" or "dwarfs" etc... then unfortunately, in my opinion, you have limited yourself to a more traditional depiction of the creature. Even if they are farmers, sheepherders or whatever, there is still that expectation of at least SOME of the stereotype being present. If you don't include it, then it might turn the reader off to your work.

Perhaps give the race a new name, and change the appearance enough that it isn't a "dwarf" anymore, but something entirely different.

For me, I tend to think of as many facets of the race that I can. Culture, Attire, Religious beliefs (if any), Construction, Transportation, Trade and Commerce, Magic (if capable), Enviroment, Family/Societal structures, Government and whatnot. Recognizing the "dwarven" stereotypes helps me to not use them for the races I construct, unless of course I WANT to use them.

 

[D. Gray Warrior]

Okay, somebody has to help me. Where does the Scottish accent come from?

Probably to do with the correlation with the Scottish Highlands and the dwarves being a mountain-centered society (albeit more subterranean.)

I figured they'd have Swedish accents, being from Norse mythology and all. Alternatively, you could have yodeling dwarves in the Alps

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

My dwarfs do dwarf things. They're miners, live inside a godly mountain, born from the earth etc, you know, what you've come to 'expect' from a dwarf.

But I put a little lemon zest in my recipe to make them unique, compared to the average depictions, which are usually fairly restricted to Tolkien dwarves.

The Blacksmiths: They're also samurai, and I mean, not just 'for a dwarf' I mean actually badasses. One of them was blinded a hundred years ago (they live extremely long) and he's already basically Samurai daredevel. He could probably clap most fictional samurai depending on how realistic the sword play is in the story.

The Miners: They're basically shinobi, not in the Naruto way but in the genuine, non pop culture way. They're also the farmers of the species, gotta be good with your hands if you're delicately mining precious resources. There's also a couple that are experienced Surgeons (Again, gotta be good with your hands)

They're also fairly tall for most dwarf depictions. They're still fairly short (I'd say they're a bit taller than a Hobbit on average) but they're tall. The Blind Guy is about 4' tall. Too tall to be a dwarf but too short to be a human, and he's well aware of this.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

It's possible to have non-cliched anything, more or less. It's all a matter of how you use it.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

The Blind Guy is about 4' tall. Too tall to be a dwarf but too short to be a human, and he's well aware of this.

Just like me! [I'm not actually that short, but, close enough.]

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Just like me! [I'm not actually that short, but, close enough.]

He self deprecates about it, but nobody really makes fun of him for it. That said, his genetics compensated for his height in other ways. (Cue AE Lowan entering chat lol)

 

[pmmg]

Probably to do with the correlation with the Scottish Highlands and the dwarves being a mountain-centered society (albeit more subterranean.)

I figured they'd have Swedish accents, being from Norse mythology and all. Alternatively, you could have yodeling dwarves in the Alps

While I agree, it probably has something to do with the world Tolkien grew up in, but...I would think they would have dwarven accents, whatever that was.

Anyway...reaching across time, the answer is still yes, they can be different.


Also, I liked it better when cliche's were the one to avoid, and trope was not even part of the vocabulary yet. (Still with you Mytho, though you don't come round no more.)

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

While I agree, it probably has something to do with the world Tolkien grew up in, but...I would think they would have dwarven accents, whatever that was.

Anyway...reaching across time, the answer is still yes, they can be different.


Also, I liked it better when cliche's were the one to avoid, and trope was not even part of the vocabulary yet. (Still with you Mytho, though you don't come round no more.)

I think we need to invent a new word to use for badly done cliches because cliches in and of themselves are not bad, they're just overplayed, often in the same way.

A writing device becomes a cliche when it becomes way too popular and gets overused. I don't think the writing device itself is the one in the wrong though.