How do you feel about the 'classic' villain monologue about their plans?

[Naruzeldamaster]

That one scene from the Incredibles movie always pops into my head -- "You sly dog! You've got me monologuing!"

The fact that it isn't just a silly joke for the audience, but also a canon problem for the super villains is hilarious.
Lore wise, they imply that the villains are actually aware of the nonsense, but they can't help themselves. It's not treated as a 'joke' in universe, but an actual thing.

 

[xena]

Yes, it works great (at least sometimes) on the stage where a character is explaining his inner thoughts not to another character but to the audience. We can use the interior monologue for that but stories these days rarely do an omniscient peek inside the villain's head.

That's true. I don't think I can remember the last time I read a book where they did

 

[xena]

Done right the laura croft example can work.
But if it's just 'randomly' thrown in, yeah, it's blatantly obvious the information isn't intended for the character in question (In this case Laura)
That seems to happen quite a bit throughout the Toomb Raider series, though the most egregious ones are the reboot series. Where she just literally happens to arrive as the enemy big bad is explaining plans. (And somehow gets away with it by hiding behind some crates or shit, I mean plot armor gonna plot armor but still, yikes.) Often, she hears just enough of the guy's plan to go 'ok they're crazy' lol

Agreed! Done right, it can work really well. But most times it's clearly not meant for the characters, rather the audience

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Agreed! Done right, it can work really well. But most times it's clearly not meant for the characters, rather the audience

The few things that bug me is the scene tends to go one of two ways.
Protagonist gets 'caught' so they can escape later (Because plot armor)
Protagonist gets away with it in the dumbest way possible (Being well within ear shot of bad guys but hiding behind dumb crate or something)
Some protagonists do both! Which, honestly is the only one that makes sense to me.
In real life if someone snoopin on a Gang leader plotting shit, they're not going to ignore someone skulking around the room lol

 

[rareruin]

In some cases, it certainly has a place, superhero shows and whatnot.
But some movies/stories it just doesn't make sense.
My favorite instances are in some Laura Croft games where the villain is talking about their evil plan and Laura just 'happens' to be within earshot.
It makes sense lore wise, because of how Laura Croft runs into her silly adventures.
But as an audience member/game player, I wheeze. It's clear to me that this is happening to inform the player/the audience and not for any real reason otherwise.

I've seen plenty of times when it's done well, and I have seen it done poorly too.

Monologues are interesting but i do feel it destroys the narrative process as well. Perhaps there is a better way around it. Good monologues i feel should provide that character's development.
A few examples to replace or support the villain's case:
A Diary or big revealing clue.
The witness, bring in a character that knows the whole story.
Eaves dropping can be a great way to do it.
Create a situation where they know each other but surrounded by innocent people for subtle monologue where only the person it's directed at can decipher his true meaning.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

Monologues are interesting but i do feel it destroys the narrative process as well. Perhaps there is a better way around it. Good monologues i feel should provide that character's development.
A few examples to replace or support the villain's case:
A Diary or big revealing clue.
The witness, bring in a character that knows the whole story.
Eaves dropping can be a great way to do it.
Create a situation where they know each other but surrounded by innocent people for subtle monologue where only the person it's directed at can decipher his true meaning.

From what I've seen in movies (And especially games)

Bad guy...generally shouldn't have a reason to explain his/her whole plan. (again, unless they're a super villain)
Granted most of the time they're high on their own stuff when they DO do these monologues. Or their minions are dimwits, which is a valid but paper thin excuse.

But a lot of the time the info is for the audience / player.

What I would LOVE to see (Outside of Incredibles) is a legitimate reason for these scenes to happen.
There are some shows where they make sense (Detective series) but others, not so much.

'Ah , protagonist, you have reached my quarters, allow me to honor you with my glorious plan, because I know you can't stop me muahaaha' don't get me started on the number of RPG where the villain does this, wipes the party, and just...allows them to live lol I mean I don't typically want the bad guy to win or nothing but come on.

One of the few series to take a Jab at this is The Kingsmen. The Jokes and Gaffs aren't always family friendly, but a lot of them do mock particular scenes that happen in spy films. The only one people didn't like was the (constant) reminder that the protagonist isn't James Bond.

 

[xena]

The few things that bug me is the scene tends to go one of two ways.
Protagonist gets 'caught' so they can escape later (Because plot armor)
Protagonist gets away with it in the dumbest way possible (Being well within ear shot of bad guys but hiding behind dumb crate or something)
Some protagonists do both! Which, honestly is the only one that makes sense to me.
In real life if someone snoopin on a Gang leader plotting shit, they're not going to ignore someone skulking around the room lol

in real life it's typically easy to note, like hello we can easily tell you're crouched behind the trash can buddy

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

in real life it's typically easy to note, like hello we can easily tell you're crouched behind the trash can buddy

Yeah, there have actually been a couple of (rare) memes about this.

 

[Le Petité]

I think it can also be used as comedic relief in some cases like kim possible or phineas and ferb but logically it makes no sense lol. or it can be reader inclusive where the reader gets to learn the grand plan but the hero doesn't know.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I think it can also be used as comedic relief in some cases like kim possible or phineas and ferb but logically it makes no sense lol. or it can be reader inclusive where the reader gets to learn the grand plan but the hero doesn't know.

I like this approach tbh, main bad guy discussing the plan with their 'head' minions. Normal thing that probably also happens in real life.
Protagonist happening to be there to hear said plan (in our case would be a regular old cop or spy without plot armor) and hiding behind random crates and the bad guys are as unobservant as heck while talking. I'm torn on if I like it or not, I like it when it's done for comedy (Again, super villains) but when one is expected to take the plot seriously, at least give me a more serious reason as to why the protagonist gets away with it. Like Frodo's ring.

Plenty of good films have this approach (Like The Great Mouse Detective) and it works great, plus they don't gotta be subtle with it either.

I think the other bit that bugs me in these scenes is the villain is usually like 'hey minion keep this on the down low' proceeds to explain plan.

In regards to doing it for comedy, it 100% works, that's the 'joke' especially if both the villain and protagonist are incompetent.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

 

[Malik]

I know it's a movie and not a book, but The Incredibles handled this absolutely beautifully.

Sitting in the car listening to police scanners, Lucius is recounting a time when a Big Bad had him on a platter but wouldn't stop monologuing. Later, Mr. Incredible nearly snuffs Syndrome by getting him monologuing, and if you roll back, you can see exactly how he psyched him into it. At the end,

Spoiler: SPOILER

Syndrome is monologuing when the Incredibles defeat him the first time in the city, and he's monologuing again when Mr. Incredible defeats him for good on the jet.

I don't do it, because it's been done better than I ever could.

I do have a moment in each book where the Big Bad and the hero come face to face and have what we called in the Army a "no-shitter." Not so much a monologue as just a "Look, dumbass. Here's what's gonna happen." / "Okay, and here's what I'm gonna do if you do that, so please don't."

This is their initial meeting in DRAGON'S TRAIL. This delves into meta-ethical moral relativism, but stick with me because the concept plays a huge part in the series.

Spoiler: BIG ASS SPOILER

Ulo is literally a Chosen One; a former up-and-coming Vegas magician who wakes up in another world and learns he's the son of a powerful sorcerer. He uses his magic and his Earth education to win back his father's kingdom, coming of age in a world of magic and wonder. (AKA "Epic Fantasy Plot Number Two.")

Twelve years on, he's become such a dick about it that a neighboring kingdom sends a mission to Earth to find someone who can kill him. The man they recruit is the MC, Jarrod: a violent, drunken, womanizing stuntman scraping by on third-rate fantasy films. Once an Olympic saber hopeful, but banned from competition for killing another fencer in a duel, he initially thought this was a reality TV show. He's now learned that it's real; it's lethal; and Ulo is also from Earth. They meet. They talk.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I personally think the villain monologue has its place. It just needs to be done well (as with everything), and that's a hard thing to do. And when done well, most readers wouldn't really recognize it as a villain monologue. Unless you're going the cartoonish villain direction of course, then fully embrace it.

As a side note, smart people really like talking about the smart solutions they came up with and about their favorite subject matter. If you've ever asked a science student about their favorite subject, then you'll have seen that in action. So it's not as weird an idea as you'd first think.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I personally think the villain monologue has its place. It just needs to be done well (as with everything), and that's a hard thing to do. And when done well, most readers wouldn't really recognize it as a villain monologue. Unless you're going the cartoonish villain direction of course, then fully embrace it.

As a side note, smart people really like talking about the smart solutions they came up with and about their favorite subject matter. If you've ever asked a science student about their favorite subject, then you'll have seen that in action. So it's not as weird an idea as you'd first think.

Yep, and ask any 'special' person (Not saying this in a bad way, since I'm also on the spectrum) about their special interest, they'll often know more than most scholars on their subject. Most of the time they'll be more factually correct about it too. A good example of this was this one kid (well, college kid) who was on the spectrum. He gave lectures on trains, every time he gave a lecture the crowd loved him cause his sense of humor was both great and accurate. I wish I had saved that video because now I can't find it, it's great lol

I think the only time I would go for the cartoon villain approach is if either A: I'm writing a cartoon villain (Like doctor Eggman from Sonic) or B: I'm parodying it, in which case I have a particular villain I want to do that with. She's insanely strong, very uh, yeah, and very cartoonishly crazy.
People put up with her tangents because, A: she's clinically insane and B: if you dare to question her chop chop chop. lol

 

[A. E. Lowan]

How about the villain monologue, but it's not the villain giving it? This is, as usual, a bit long but it's the first piece of ours that's gotten the reaction, "... Jesus." It pleased me.

From Faerie Rising: The First Book of Binding...

~~~

Lana continued to trace her fingertip around the rim of her glass until the crystal sang a soft, mournful note. “On Midir’s final visit to Ceallach and Deirdre’s court, he presented the Unseelie Queen with a golden chalice. It was exquisite, with bas-relief decorations of a prince in various entertainments; hunting, riding, dancing, dueling, and playing a lute. Around the edge were round jewels and cunningly carved bits of ivory. And the prince was modeled on Ceallach and Deirdre’s son, Prince Ciarán. The likeness was perfect, as if Ciarán had sat for the artist. Queen Deirdre was charmed with the gift. Her sons were her life. After the loss of their younger son, Ciarán had become all the more precious.”

She poured herself a little more wine and held the glass up to the light. “Midir also gifted the Queen with bottles of wine bearing labels that read, ‘For Delight.’ When the wine was poured into the chalice, the little figures sprang to life and played out their scenes. Prince Ciarán wasn’t there to see it, though. He had responsibilities that had called him away from court.” Lana frowned. “That was what King Ceallach told Midir. Ciarán actually never took his duties as Prince and Heir seriously. No, he had a new lover in a neighboring court and had been there for days. But Ceallach could dance around that without lying because he wanted an alliance with that court and Midir graciously accepted the story because he hadn’t come to see Ciarán, anyway.

“And then Midir left Deirdre with her pretty new toy.”

The group was silent as Lana spoke, letting her spin her tale. Her dark eyes were focused on what were now clearly her memories. She was quiet for several long moments, and when she spoke again her voice was thick with repressed emotion. “Days stretched into weeks, and Ciarán lingered at the other court. The Queen missed him and being fragile of mind she became melancholy. She would play with her new chalice and sip the wine, but it didn’t soothe her. The King grew annoyed with his son’s callousness, because this wasn’t the first time—Ciarán only cared for Ciarán—and sent a messenger to fetch him home. When the messenger returned, she was alone. She told the King and Queen that the other court claimed Ciarán and his companions had never arrived.”

Pain filled her eyes. “The Queen was in a panic. When her younger son disappeared centuries before, it was much the same. He went riding out on a visit and never returned. There were whispers, even in my time, that Ciarán had murdered his brother, but that was all they were—whispers. For her it was the same nightmare all over again. The King was ready to ride to war against the other court on any scrap of evidence that they were behind Ciarán’s disappearance. He sent out war parties under the guise of search parties to comb every inch of territory between the shifting borders of the two courts. And the Queen carried that chalice with her everywhere and cried.

“Then a few days into this a wine bottle was delivered to the kitchens. No one remembered exactly where it had come from, just that it arrived. A sharp-eyed page noticed it and brought it to the King where he was meeting with his advisors. Its label read, ‘For Truth.’ He sent for his Queen’s chalice, but she came with it and try as he might, she refused to be parted from it. Ceallach was torn, we could see it, but in the end, he had to know, so he set the chalice on the table and poured the wine.”

Lana twisted the stem of her glass, swirling the liquid. “It was the exact color and consistency of freshly spilled blood.” Etienne made a soft noise and she flashed a glare at him. “Say what you like about the Unseelie courts, there are some things that shouldn’t pour from wine bottles. Not before the eyes of a frightened mother.”

Etienne gave her a nod of apology.

Lana looked away from him, to her wineglass, and then pushed it away. “The thick liquid filled the chalice and just as before the little figures of Ciarán began to move, but then the scenes changed. Now in one scene the Prince laughed with his companions as they violated a helpless fae; in another he drove a sword through the body of a younger sidhe in princely dress, pinning him to an embankment; in another he writhed and screamed under torture horrific to even our eyes; and in the last one he was held fast in a vice, shrieking as a blade sawed at his head. When Ceallach saw the scenes change, he moved to shield Deirdre, but it was too late. She had seen too much. And to make things worse, where it had been silent before, now the chalice screamed. It screamed in Ciarán’s voice. Within a few breaths the Queen joined in.

“Ceallach was desperate to make it stop. He splashed the liquid on the floor, but still the cup screamed. So, he dashed it against the table. Once. Twice. Three times.” Lana’s eyes had gotten wide. “It didn’t crumple or bend like metal should. It cracked and split. We all knew the quality of that cracking sound. We were Unseelie. It was fresh bone—not dry, white bone, but bone still wet in the marrow.

“The screaming stopped, both from the chalice and from the Queen. Several of the jewels and ivory pieces had broken off, scattering over the tabletop, and the gold had stripped away from one of the shards. We knew, now, looking at the raw bone core of the chalice, what the little carved ivory bits really were. The Queen saw it and whispered, ‘My sons,’ over and over and over. It was all she said for days, until she gave over entirely to madness.”

Lana’s voice lowered to a hiss of anger. “It was widely known that Deirdre was fragile. She was called Deirdre of the Sorrows long before Ceallach took her as his wife. But Midir fashioned her son’s skull into a cup, and gifted it to her to drink from, and then taunted her with it.” She brought herself out of her memories and focused on the others at the table. “If he wanted some sort of revenge on Ceallach, then fine… but why punish her like that? It was cruel.”

Etienne purposely did not look at Cian. “The older sidhe enjoy creativity when they send their messages. I think it’s because they get bored.” He narrowed his eyes at Lana with suspicion. “That was some story. Who are you to Ceallach and Deirdre?”

The succubus flashed him an angry look and took up her wineglass again, seeming to hesitate as she took a deep drink.

“‘Some story?’ What sort of cold-hearted bastard are you?” Jessie’s eyes glittered with unshed tears.

Etienne’s expression turned to wry irritation as he looked at the teen. “The sort of bastard who needs to know exactly what you and this succubus want to get us involved in. Remember, girl, calling on the sidhe courts is your idea. This is what the sidhe do.” The corner of his mouth twisted with distaste as he spoke, pulling at the spell scars on his cheek. He turned back to Lana. “Now tell us.”

 

[A. E. Lowan]

And this one. Just perfection. Viggo's monologue is required viewing and note taking for any writer, in my not-at-all humble opinion.