Searching for someone to nitpick my worldbuilding

[Kassandra]

Hello. I'm posting this here, uncertain where else to post it.
I initially thought that I was searching for a developmental editor (note: the book hasn't been written, yet; but the worldbuilding has been completed). After asking in a writing group on Facebook (and receiving countless friend requests...), a couple of people told me that I'm actually searching for a consultation with an editor, rather than a developmental edit.

Well, then, the question remains: Do you have anyone specific to suggest?

I noticed that there is no such topic in these forums; is it not allowed to promote editors? (or is it to prevent the situation happening on Facebook?)

I know there is the Worldbuilding topic, but I want a person to actually see all aspects of what I've written (different kingdoms, history, magic system, etc), and basically read (and find inconsistencies) in the entire backbone of my book. With payment, of course.

I hope it's allowed to post this topic here. I'm uncertain where to go, whom to trust, and of course the final amount of money that can be required.

Thank you for your time.

 

[pmmg]

Nothing against promoting editors here as far as I know. I have experience with two editors, but they are so different from each other, I am not sure how to say which one is best for you. Just like people Editors are all different. So finding the right fit is, at least for me, a crap shoot. I liked my last one more than the first, but he cost more money.

You are not looking for a developmental edit as you have no written work to present. A consultation is kind of what you are after, and...I mean, thats kind of what we do, consult

Personally, I think world building is overplayed and story matters a whole lot more. My advice is not to spend all your effort on world building and get a story going. Without that, you can't know if the world building holds up or not. Unless you were planning for a RPG, world building needs to take a back searching somewhere.

But, I'd certainly have an opinion if it was in front of me.

Generally, I would suggest that everything should be part of an organic evolving process. Kingdoms don't come from nowhere, and roads and cities and such form where there is need, not where it is cool. So...I look at the machinery or how and why. Most stuff, like magic, as long as its serviceable, it gets a pass from me. I'd just probably notice if some character seemed to be outside of the stated rules.

I think you would do well to post some of it here if you want scrutiny, or a place like us.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Do you have an in-person writing group to talk to? I feel like spending money before you've even written the book is a tough ask.

 

[diremoon]

I'm actually in a very similar position with my own book. I've spent a lot of time developing the setting, magic, history, cultures and underlying rules, and I completely understand the desire to have someone come in from the outside and deliberately try to break it.

When you've been working on a setting for long enough, you start automatically filling in gaps yourself. Something can make perfect sense to you because you know the missing three steps, while a new reader just sees a hole. Having someone point out contradictions, unintended consequences or places where you've massively over-explained something can be extremely useful.

That said, I do think the others are right about there being a limit to how much you can test before the actual story starts interacting with the world.

pmmg said:
Without that, you can't know if the world building holds up or not.

I wouldn't necessarily say that worldbuilding should take a back seat to story, because I think the relationship works both ways.

The world influences the story, and the story influences the world.

A political system can look completely sensible in your notes until you write a character actively trying to exploit it. A magic restriction can look airtight until a scene forces you into an edge case you hadn't considered. You can design a city that makes perfect geographical sense, then discover that the everyday lives of your characters make one part of that design ridiculous.

But the opposite happens as well. Worldbuilding can generate story. An economic problem, an old political dispute, a consequence of the magic system or a cultural practice can produce conflicts and characters you would never have thought of from the plot alone.

So I don't think detailed worldbuilding before writing is wasted effort at all. I do think there comes a point where trying to make the world completely "finished" before writing gives diminishing returns.

hunterjwizzard said:
I feel like spending money before you've even written the book is a tough ask.

This is probably where I'd be cautious too.

I completely understand wanting to pay someone to audit the whole setting — I've had much the same temptation — but I suspect you'd get more value by having people attack pieces of it now, then actually writing enough of the novel for the world to start colliding with characters and events.

At that point, a professional consultation has much more to work with.

Instead of just asking, "Does this kingdom make sense?", they can ask, "Does this kingdom make sense given what people actually do inside it?"

For myself, I'm starting to think of my worldbuilding less as "finished" and more as stable enough to write with. Then the story can expose the bits that need changing.

 

[hunterjwizzard]

Instead of just asking, "Does this kingdom make sense?", they can ask, "Does this kingdom make sense given what people actually do inside it?"

I've always enjoyed going the opposite direction and writing the story(or parts of it) and then informing the world-building from what's written.

 

[diremoon]

I've always enjoyed going the opposite direction and writing the story(or parts of it) and then informing the world-building from what's written.

both ways are valid, me personally i like having the world instruct the characters.

 

[skip.knox]

Here is the best way to stress test your worldbuilding: write a novel.

Seriously. You can have multiple sets of eyes on your worldbuilding. You'll make all sorts of revisions as a result. Then you'll start to write and the damn thing will unravel in places you didn't even know were places.

I understand the reluctance. I'd worry that if I start writing a novel, I'll get into all sorts of difficulties that could have been avoided if only I'd had someone look into my worldbuilding. The worry is illusory. You have probably seen some form of the saying: no plan survives first contact with the enemy. To which it's worth adding "plans are worthless but planning is everything." (the former comes from von Moltke, the latter from Eisenhower)

Going ahead with the novel has advantages at this stage. One, your worldbuilding is nothing without a story. Two, by writing you will learn a great deal about worldbuilding. Three, you'll find out if you really are a writer.

I join with others in recommending against spending any money on a worldbuilding review.

 

[Mad Swede]

You have probably seen some form of the saying: no plan survives first contact with the enemy. To which it's worth adding "plans are worthless but planning is everything." (the former comes from von Moltke, the latter from Eisenhower)

At this point I'm going to be awkward and point out that both quotes are, in their original form, from Graf Helmuth von Moltke the Elder. He was writing about military planning and its importance in helping officers think through the situation and how they might deal with any eventual problems that arose during the operation.

The quotes are equally applicable to project management and writing. It isn't the plan you produce which is important, it is thinking through the problem in a structured way so that you understand what it is you are trying to achieve, what resources and capabilities you have available and what the major constraints, uncertaintites and risks are. Then you can get on and do whatever it was that you intended to do.

 

[Kassandra]

Thank you very much for the responses. I didn't want to write too much in my initial message, but I already know what my story is about. More specifically, I started writing the first draft (didn't finish it) and hit a wall numerous times.

• First, the world building was flat. I had kingdoms and cursed cities with which my characters interacted, but I hadn't analyzed them at all. I couldn't keep writing without giving more essence to those places, so I worked on their history and current rulers (I analyzed only the ones who are actively affecting the main characters and the plot).
• Then, my characters were poorly-written, so I had to flesh them out better (and of course, I also "met them" while writing them on paper), so the first draft had to be re-written (again).
• Moving on, my magical system was horrendous. I was making up stuff as I went, and they all ended up being poorly made plot devices that were only useful for one scene; aka a Deus ex machina for the entire story.

I 100% agree with everyone that one should first write the story, or at least try to, and see how the world interacts with the characters (and vice versa). I went through countless trials and errors. I know that this is what writing is; but I do want to have a "steady" world building in order to throw my characters in (with the story I already know).

The reason I want an editor/consultant now is because I decided to create an interactive radio drama (each episode ends with two different paths the protagonist can take, and the audience decides where she goes) taking place in the world of my book but with a different protagonist. I love radio dramas, and I enjoy the idea of promoting the world of my book through another character's eyes (and in a part of the world that my characters may not go through).

I haven't, yet, decided what this new protagonist's journey is going to be about (I only know the circumstances that lead her to the bad part of the world), and I will work on it shortly.

All I know is that when I start the radio drama, I won't be able to go back and "edit" the world building and the "constants" of my world.

As for using these forums to ask for help and guidance, I have to be honest: I feel a little self-conscious about it. I've many times used these forums to ask for guidance in the past, but I haven't given back as much or at all... "Paying" someone takes the burden off of me for not giving back to a community that's helpful to me.
Of course, the simplest solution would be to simply give back, but my knowledge is very limited in writing and world building, and I don't feel like I have much to offer back for the kind of help I require.

 

[Mad Swede]

I'm not sure how to put this Kassandra, but I'll do my best. I'm writing this from my perspective as a published author with a (now) long working relationship with my editor.

First, getting an editor/consultant at this stage is a waste of your money.

Your world building is relatively meaningless without a story set in your world. A good editor will want to see both what you have written of your story (including the outline if your draft isn't finished) and also your outline for the interactive drama, including how the various paths develop based on the choices made. They should also ask to see more details about the various characters, things like how and why they're doing what they're doing. In short, you need to have complete story and character arcs sketched out. It's the only way they can judge if it all hangs together with your world building.

My personal view is that you should give your world building a rest and concentrate on getting your draft story finished. The challenges you've listed are a sign that your story arcs aren't properly developed. If the story arcs were developed you'd already know what sort of interactions and events there would be in the various cities and kingdoms and hence what aspects need to be detailed enough to move the story on. You'd also have an idea about what sort of magic would be needed, so you'd avoid the one-shot plot devioces. Note here that the details for all these things don't need to be complete, only good enough.

The same is true of characterisation. Once you know how the story arcs develop you can also develop the character arcs and hence all the interactions between characters. You can work out how and why the various characters came to be involved and what they hope to get out of it all.

My suggestion, advice even, is to go back and re-write your story. This time it should be easier, because you've filled in so many more details. It will be easier for you to find any remaining gaps in what you've done in your world building. When you've done all that, put the story down and write your drama.

Finally, your world building is never complete. There's always something you add later. So don't try to make it complete, and don't set it all in stone. Write your stories, and let the setting develop along with them.

 

[skip.knox]

At this point I'm going to be awkward and point out that both quotes are, in their original form, from Graf Helmuth von Moltke the Elder. He was writing about military planning and its importance in helping officers think through the situation and how they might deal with any eventual problems that arose during the operation.

The quotes are equally applicable to project management and writing. It isn't the plan you produce which is important, it is thinking through the problem in a structured way so that you understand what it is you are trying to achieve, what resources and capabilities you have available and what the major constraints, uncertaintites and risks are. Then you can get on and do whatever it was that you intended to do.

Not at all awkward. The historian who is uncomfortable being corrected on points of fact really ought to find another occupation.

The two quotes taken together helps with my attitude toward my own writing. I do need to plan; I'm unable to start a novel (or even a short story) without planning. Then the writing takes over and the plan gets shredded; or, more accurately, the plan transforms over and over as the story progresses. Both are to be expected.