Actual healthy food pyramid

[Aldarion]

I remembered to post this thanks to the "fat characters" thread...

I have had digestion tract problems for nearly a decade now... digestion problems, stool problems and so on. And I couldn't figure out what to do because doctors' advice only made it worse along with my weight and waistline... that is, until recently, when I completely overhauled my diet based on my own research and what I had noticed is good for me.

And "what is good for me" comes down to basically two things:

1) intermittent fasting

2) this particular food pyramid:

Basically, grains are poison and you should get rid of them and anything related to them. Fruits are good, but shouldn't be eaten too much because they are packed with sugar. Now, different people are different and so will have different biological preferences and needs, but if anyone here is having problems with diet, or health problems in general, I figured this might help. It certainly helped me... no more indigestion, or constipation, or heartburn... and I no longer feel like an elephant had trampled me either.

 

[Finchbearer]

I on the other hand recommend the cake diet; cake for breakfast, cake for lunch and cake for dinner. Snacks; cake.

It sounds as though you have may have an intolerance or allergy to gluten Aldarion, and of course this is what works for you and you only. Everyone’s different, I eat a lot of grains, and have no issues. I can’t eat a lot of unprocessed fruit anyway because of allergies.

I would say that I do also think that intermittent fasting is good for us as humans to do because it probably mimics how often we are actually supposed to eat, but that doesn’t mean eating NOTHING all day, that means eating one low calorie meal that is healthy, and still plenty of water - and of course, the idea of what is healthy so to some people is actually unhealthy when taken to extremes of when it becomes a disordered eating habit.

If we’re bringing this back to fantasy writing, I deal with scarce food and foraging tactics used by one of main characters who is based on a medieval peasant farmer. I’d recommend foraging to anyone, obviously taking care with what you forage and double check what’s safe to eat.

 

[Jackarandajam]

I remembered to post this thanks to the "fat characters" thread...

I have had digestion tract problems for nearly a decade now... digestion problems, stool problems and so on. And I couldn't figure out what to do because doctors' advice only made it worse along with my weight and waistline... that is, until recently, when I completely overhauled my diet based on my own research and what I had noticed is good for me.

And "what is good for me" comes down to basically two things:

1) intermittent fasting

2) this particular food pyramid:

Basically, grains are poison and you should get rid of them and anything related to them. Fruits are good, but shouldn't be eaten too much because they are packed with sugar. Now, different people are different and so will have different biological preferences and needs, but if anyone here is having problems with diet, or health problems in general, I figured this might help. It certainly helped me... no more indigestion, or constipation, or heartburn... and I no longer feel like an elephant had trampled me either.

Thanks for sharing, and I'm glad you're feeling better!
The science coming out about how many vegetables are actually toxic is interesting; I can't tell if it's true or just bought-and-paid-for clapback against the huge push for vegan meat alternatives.
The amount of bread in the American diet is def hurting people though.

There was a South Park episode about flipping the trad food pyramid.

 

[Jackarandajam]

and of course, the idea of what is healthy so to some people is actually unhealthy when taken to extremes of when it becomes a disordered eating habit.

I on the other hand recommend the cake diet; cake for breakfast, cake for lunch and cake for dinner. Snacks; cake.

If we’re bringing this back to fantasy writing,

We can always bring it back to fantasy writing for sure, but if we can have threads about video games and music, I don't see why we can't have one about diet without worrying about straying from only the mythic and scribal.

 

[Finchbearer]

We can always bring it back to fantasy writing for sure, but if we can have threads about video games and music, I don't see why we can't have one about diet without worrying about straying from only the mythic and scribal.

Why the confused face? The mention of the ‘cake diet’ was a joke, and a reaction, in part to the fastidious culture surrounding ‘healthy eating’. What works for one person may not work for another.

I thought that it was relevant to talk about diet in relation to my own writing, and if we’re chit chatting in general, I don’t see why the topic of fantasy writing is off limits…on a fantasy writing forum.

 

[pmmg]

In that period when i had cancer, thats pretty much my diet. Fasting and all. I dropped down to 190, which ive not been since my army days. And a lot of issues went away as well.

I think its def true our food science and supply is mostly junk and poison. Sugar is a killer.

 

[Aldarion]

It sounds as though you have may have an intolerance or allergy to gluten Aldarion, and of course this is what works for you and you only. Everyone’s different, I eat a lot of grains, and have no issues. I can’t eat a lot of unprocessed fruit anyway because of allergies.

I had noted precisely that in the post: it works for me. But it certainly won't work only for me; on the flip side, there will be people for whom it won't work at all.

However, from the research I had done so far, it does appear that the above food pyramid is basically how humans had eaten for most of history. Including the Middle Ages: poor peasants subsiding on corn and grain is basically a lie. Rather, they ate a lot of vegetables and a lot of meat. They did eat grain as well, but in nowhere near as large quantities as people eat today, especially in the West. And this is significant because people from early Middle Ages were most likely among the healthiest in history (this can be easily checked by looking at their height); most of the "bad Middle Ages" tropes are really only true for the Renaissance period.

And we can in fact confirm this even today. Look at Sardinian and Okinawan traditional diet: vegetables, pork, cheese and fish, with next to no grains. I know it is popular to say that Sardinians eat mostly grains, but that is a lie: even if that may be true for most of population, people from the blue zones (which is where Sardinian centenaries actually live) eat very little grains, but rather eat mostly vegetables, fat and animal protein: specifically, olive oil, meat and fish.

There is a reason why "bread and water" is used for fasting: that is fundamentally a starvation diet.

So what you should do is take the pyramid as presented above, and then experiment with it: see what works for you personally and what doesn't. Maybe you have intolerance to meat, in which case you just drop the meat - but you certainly shouldn't introduce bread and grains to replace it.

As for intolerance or allergy to gluten, that is certainly a possibility; though when I did blood tests some time ago, doctor told me that my blood image is basically healthy as an ox, despite me very definitey being sick. And that was still time when I was eating bread; that being said, I am not sure if gluten intolerance tests are something more specific than normal blood tests, or if they even exist.

I would say that I do also think that intermittent fasting is good for us as humans to do because it probably mimics how often we are actually supposed to eat, but that doesn’t mean eating NOTHING all day, that means eating one low calorie meal that is healthy, and still plenty of water - and of course, the idea of what is healthy so to some people is actually unhealthy when taken to extremes of when it becomes a disordered eating habit.

Precisely. I started doing intermittent fasting few days ago, and I eat basically one major meal at cca noon + one snack of nuts and/or fruits or vegetables, preferably before 18:00 and definitely no later than 20:00. And between that and a change in diet itself, I noticed that I a) feel better and b) don't feel constantly hungry. Back when I followed the "official" food recommendations (traditional pyramid + three meals a day), I couldn't stop eating because nothing would sate me. Now I can go 16 hours without eating no problem at all. In fact, I sometimes go longer than 16 hours, simply because I forget to eat. Which is something that had never happened before.

If we’re bringing this back to fantasy writing, I deal with scarce food and foraging tactics used by one of main characters who is based on a medieval peasant farmer. I’d recommend foraging to anyone, obviously taking care with what you forage and double check what’s safe to eat.

Yep. Though as I noted previously, above is basically how medieval peasants mostly ate.

The science coming out about how many vegetables are actually toxic is interesting; I can't tell if it's true or just bought-and-paid-for clapback against the huge push for vegan meat alternatives.
The amount of bread in the American diet is def hurting people though.

I'd say it is bought-and-paid-for clapback against healthy eating.

You see, vegetables are some of the healthiest food out there. Problem is that healthy people won't feel miserable, and thus won't take dietary supplements or "consolation foods" such as bread or cakes. So I suspect that all these articles on how "vegetables are unhealthy", "meat is unhealthy" and so on are paid for by the grain lobby. Because grains are addictive. I had noticed this on myself: giving up bread and other grains was a struggle - I had most of if not all of the symptoms I had read about in articles about people trying to come off cocain addiction (for those wondering, list here). But they ceased after only a few days. I still get cravings just looking at bread, but now that I know to recognize addiction for what it is, I can control myself.

But to be clear: all these statements about "X being toxic" are true depending on the person. Some people get sick from meat, some from fruit, some from vegetables... literally the only statement that holds true for everyone is this: processed is bad. If food has been processed so much that it doesn't look anything like it used to be in nature, then you shouldn't eat it. You have to be able to tell what it is at a first glance. And this principle alone eliminates from diet so-called "foods" such as cakes, bread, salami...

There was a South Park episode about flipping the trad food pyramid.

This?

Yeah, that's definitely better health advice than 99% of the stuff out there.

In that period when i had cancer, thats pretty much my diet. Fasting and all. I dropped down to 190, which ive not been since my army days. And a lot of issues went away as well.

I think its def true our food science and supply is mostly junk and poison. Sugar is a killer.

Glad to hear you're better, and thanks for the input.

And yeah, sugar is probably one of biggest murderers in human history.

 

[Finchbearer]

Aldarion what you’ve presented is a ‘paleo’ diet, which is without grains, and if it works for some people then fine, and I am aware that humans have been hunter gatherers for longer than we’ve cultivated grain crops. But even so, it doesn’t mean that some people can’t eat grains. I eat them all the time, preferring to eat whole grains. I grow some edible food crops and I enjoy that, but I’m also vegetarian so don’t eat meat. Everyone is different I all I’m saying, and presenting it as ‘this is what I recommend’ is somewhat problematic.

 

[pmmg]

This is cause so much is actually backwards. It could be, sugar was good for you and vegetables were bad, but noooo.... the powers that be had to do it the other way. Jerks.

I had noted precisely that in the post: it works for me. But it certainly won't work only for me; on the flip side, there will be people for whom it won't work at all.

This is a generous statement. It will pretty much work for anyone who tries is, minus strange allergies. The split here is closer to 90/10 than 50/50.

 

[Finchbearer]

For me the balance is about eating healthy stuff and also eating the cake occasionally, moving regularly - my lifestyle is very active so I sleep well most nights, that’s if I’m not woken up by a tiny person, and definitely drinking lots of water I find beneficial. Hydration is somewhat strangely underrated. Foraging is also really fun because it connects me to the landscape, but I’ll take any excuse to get up close and personal with plants

 

[pmmg]

We can always bring it back to fantasy writing for sure, but if we can have threads about video games and music, I don't see why we can't have one about diet without worrying about straying from only the mythic and scribal.

Well...every post is under the cover of the theme of the site. So, to bring any post into that context would always be the deferred to direction. When we stray, we stray from that. Which is to say, its never wrong to put that filter on it, songs, food or video games.

 

[Aldarion]

Aldarion what you’ve presented is a ‘paleo’ diet, which is without grains, and if it works for some people then fine, and I am aware that humans have been hunter gatherers for longer than we’ve cultivated grain crops. But even so, it doesn’t mean that some people can’t eat grains. I eat them all the time, preferring to eat whole grains. I grow some edible food crops and I enjoy that, but I’m also vegetarian so don’t eat meat. Everyone is different I all I’m saying, and presenting it as ‘this is what I recommend’ is somewhat problematic.

I don't see what is problematic there. Fact is that modern-day diet is garbage, and that grains are a big part of reason why. If you can eat grains that is fine... though to be frank, you are kinda playing with fire there. Or maybe you are a genetic freak.

As pmmg noted, there could theoretically be people who will suffer absolutely no ill effects from eating grains... but this type of diet will work for something like 90-95% of the population.

For me the balance is about eating healthy stuff and also eating the cake occasionally, moving regularly - my lifestyle is very active so I sleep well most nights, that’s if I’m not woken up by a tiny person, and definitely drinking lots of water I find beneficial. Hydration is somewhat strangely underrated. Foraging is also really fun because it connects me to the landscape, but I’ll take any excuse to get up close and personal with plants

Yeah. Big part of reason why I concluded this food pyramid is good before I even tried it out is when I saw water as the foundation of the pyramid. Most pyramids put it at the top, as if it is something irrelevant that can be easily cut out, instead of foundation of health.

 

[Devor]

This is a generous statement. It will pretty much work for anyone who tries is, minus strange allergies. The split here is closer to 90/10 than 50/50.

I won't comment on the biological merits of a diet. But from a behavioral perspective, most people who try this diet - as with most diets - will absolutely fail. Most people just can't sustain a sweeping diet overhaul. From that perspective, the diet will work for like 10-20% of people.

But, and here's the kicker, most of those people will find a similar benefit from just about any diet, because it means getting control of your eating. People report health benefits whether they turn vegan or keto. Shoot, people even find their health improves when they go Kocher, which isn't even trying to be a healthy diet. Just getting a handle on what you eat will do that for you.

So, in terms of what to eat, I'll just echo the experts: Eat more vegetables, leaner meats, fewer and only whole grain carbs, and much less junk food. And people who eat breakfast have a better all-cause mortality.

But if you really want to try something sustainable, the goal is to make small, permanent changes, every few months. Switches are the best way. Switch your snack from oreos to crackers and a cheese spread. A year or two later, switch the cheese spread with hummus. A year or two after that, switch the crackers to cucumbers. Make a different change every few months in between.

The goal, really, should be to build a habit of improving your lifestyle, one thing at a time. Let the small change settle in as a new habit which you can rely on and build off of over time.

 

[pmmg]

I won't comment on the biological merits of a diet. But from a behavioral perspective, most people who try this diet - as with most diets - will absolutely fail. Most people just can't sustain a sweeping diet overhaul. From that perspective, the diet will work for like 10-20% of people.

That's right. Human nature prevents the success of diets. And everything is stacked against us in that regard. Personally, I think the hardest thing about dieting is other people. Other people expect you to eat.

But still...there is no mystery. Its not like we don't know the answers. Want to be healthier, look at the above.

Since people eat what they want anyway... What's it matter what I say? Eat what you think is best.


To bring up the other thread, and Fat Characters, I said there I don't see who my characters would get fat. There is not enough food, and they are too active to end up that way. A diet like the above is kind of forced on them just by the environment. Sugar has not come up at all in the story Where would they get it?

 

[Prince of Spires]

The amount of bread in the American diet is def hurting people though.

The main issue here is not so much the bread, but rather, that the bread is stuffed full of other stuff that shouldn't be in bread. If bread has a shelf-life of more than 2 or 3 days, it's not bread. Most American bread contains more sugar and additives than actual, real flour. It's why Subway isn't allowed to call their bread bread in Ireland.

I agree with Devor that the main reason diets work is that it makes people think conciously about what they are eating and tends to force them away from ultra-processed food. The spread of obesity in countries correlates directly to the spread of ultra-processed food. My grandparents had no trouble staying healty and lean, even though they ate lots of bread and potatoes (I'm Dutch, it's basically the only food we know...). Why, because their bread was simply flour, water and yeast, they ate meat in moderation, and they ate vegetables that actually looked like vegetables without being processed to death.

If you pick up a bread in the supermarket today, or crackers or anything that looks like it should be made of just flour, water and yeast and you look at the ingredient list, you'll see a lot of other stuff thrown in. That's the unhealthy part. It's also why removing it from your diet makes you a lot healthier.

As for what hunter gatherers ate, that very much depends on where they lived. There is no one hard rule about it. The inuit would eat very differently from someone living in central africa. As humans we're built to eat a variety of everything. So if you do that, then you're usually good to go.

 

[Jackarandajam]

If you pick up a bread in the supermarket today, or crackers or anything that looks like it should be made of just flour, water and yeast and you look at the ingredient list, you'll see a lot of other stuff thrown in. That's the unhealthy part. It's also why removing it from your diet makes you a lot healthier.

As for what hunter gatherers ate, that very much depends on where they lived. There is no one hard rule about it. The inuit would eat very differently from someone living in central africa. As humans we're built to eat a variety of everything. So if you do that, then you're usually good to go.

Even really good, healthy, homemade bread is calorie dense and light on nutrients. Like oats, unless one is a practicing athlete, it's a question of what you're eating vs. What you're burning. Excessive body fat brings its own set of health problems no matter the source.
I agree that the additional ingredients are actually -bad- for everyone, as opposed to good ancient grain homemade bread being primarly -good- for most people, but it's still too calorically dense to be consumed at high levels based on the average modern exercise regimen.
The doctors joke "the good news is, you can eat all the salad you want," because you literally can't get overweight on romaine, whereas it's so easy to gain weight eating bread most people should cut back if they don't want to suffer the slew of health problems that come with heaving around too much of themselves.

Hunter Gatherers diets are different all around the globe, but the nutritional differences between wild rabbit and wild seal, or even fruit-heavy jungle diets compared to the blood-milk concoctions of Sub-Saharan Africa, are negligible compared to the average american diet. Thinking hunter-gatherer is a good place to start for most people. Eat primarily unprocessed meats and vegetables.

 

[Jackarandajam]

I won't comment on the biological merits of a diet. But from a behavioral perspective, most people who try this diet - as with most diets - will absolutely fail. Most people just can't sustain a sweeping diet overhaul. From that perspective, the diet will work for like 10-20% of people.

I think the primary reason for this is people's inability to go for any reasonable amount of time without eating.
Periodic fasting, even longer 1-3 day fasts, is a better habit to practice first then replacing certain foods, I think. If your body has been trained to eat as whenever and as soon as it's hungry, your diet will be one of ease and convenience. If that "full feeling" is a necessity, then snacking on carbs is inevitable, and all diets will fail.

I do alot of driving, so I have three choices for food; meal prep, eat convenience store/fast food garbage, or be a little hungry sometimes. If I can't be hungry and not eat, I will inevitably forget to food prep and "have to" grab some garbage food, whereas if I'm capable of being a little hungry for a while, I can wait until I get home.

"What am I going to snack on" is most people's biggest dieting problem. If the body can be taught to separate the feeling of hunger from a sort of survival panic, the question becomes less important.

 

[Aldarion]

I won't comment on the biological merits of a diet. But from a behavioral perspective, most people who try this diet - as with most diets - will absolutely fail. Most people just can't sustain a sweeping diet overhaul. From that perspective, the diet will work for like 10-20% of people.

While that is true, this diet is actually easier to follow than most.

Three main reasons why people fail at a diet are:

1. Diet does not fulfill basic nutritional needs (e.g. basically every vegan diet ever).
2. Diet does not fulfill basic "feelings" (e.g. feeling full and good taste).
3. People are too addicted to what they were eating before.

There is no easy solution for the point 3), that basically depends on willpower, but the food pyramid provided here actually fulfills points 1) and 2) (for me at least). In fact, once I threw out bread, it turns out that chicken actually tastes better than chocolate. I still get cravings for chocolate and baked goods - chemically-based addictions are difficult to get rid of, far more so than purely behaviorally-based addictions - but I would much rather have a nice chicken leg than a cookie or a burek.

And if cravings are too difficult to handle, well, set cheat days. "I will allow myself a burek on Sundays" or something like that.

But, and here's the kicker, most of those people will find a similar benefit from just about any diet, because it means getting control of your eating. People report health benefits whether they turn vegan or keto. Shoot, people even find their health improves when they go Kocher, which isn't even trying to be a healthy diet. Just getting a handle on what you eat will do that for you.

So, in terms of what to eat, I'll just echo the experts: Eat more vegetables, leaner meats, fewer and only whole grain carbs, and much less junk food. And people who eat breakfast have a better all-cause mortality.

Reason for that is simply that modern-day Western diet is so bad that literally anything is an improvement over it.

Vegan diet? Better.
Vegetarian diet? Better.
Carnivore diet? Better.
Mediterranean diet? Better.
Okinawan diet? Better.
Ancient Roman diet? Better.
Ancient Chinese diet? Better.
Traditional Native American diet? Better.
Traditional Mongol diet? Better.
Medieval European diets? Better.
Egg-only diet? Still better.
Eating grass? Still better in the short term, though you will want to include some more nutritious foods in the long term.

Issue however is that a diet has to:
a) provide necessary nutrients
and
b) be sustainable.

And these things can be quantified. Vegan diet for example fails at both point a) and point b). Well-planned vegetarian diet can provide most nutrients, but it often fails point b). Carnivore diet likewise can provide nutrients but fails point b).

And yeah, what you have listed is a good starting point. But that is all it is: a starting point (except I am not sure leaner meats is actually good advice. Fat is important. You don't want to go too fat, but you definitely don't want to go too lean either. For me, chicken and turkey have proven a good middle ground). Once you are past that, you should make further changes. What these changes will be, exactly, depends on what your organism needs. But first you need to cut out any addictive substances (e.g. sugars and grains) so that you can start actually listening to your body.

The main issue here is not so much the bread, but rather, that the bread is stuffed full of other stuff that shouldn't be in bread. If bread has a shelf-life of more than 2 or 3 days, it's not bread. Most American bread contains more sugar and additives than actual, real flour. It's why Subway isn't allowed to call their bread bread in Ireland.

Issue actually is bread. Grain is bad.

 

[Devor]

I've had three people quote my post, and not one included the main point:

There is evidence - actual, scientific evidence - about what works in a diet. And it is making small changes every few months over time. That's what works for real people who have to struggle with cooking and shopping and exhaustion and eating out and families and work and responsibilities and life issues.

I'm not going to post links. I'd encourage everyone to search it up yourselves: What does the science say about effective dieting practices.

Pushing a diet - any diet - onto people as an answer is a failure, in practice, because it expects people to change too much too quickly. Telling people to "stop eating carbs" doesn't help anyone because they aren't going to succeed in doing it. In fact, people who fail trying a no-carb diet often end up worse off, because eating lots of meat every day, then cheating on their diet with big bountiful grains, is apparently the worst of both worlds.

But does the biological science even support the no-carb diet? Actually.... no. The science consistently supports the Mediterranean Diet as the most healthiest. Have doubts? Look it up yourself: What is the healthiest diet according to the scientific evidence.

Basically, grains are poison...

Just.... no.

 

[Devor]

And.... here's a healthy food pyramid, put forward by the experts, instead of one from the diet scammers.