Anti Semitism & pro semitism in literature

[Cool-Beans]

Hi guys.

Towards the end of the book ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ there is a piece of dialogue between the kids and one of the adults saying that the Jewish people have only helped advance any society / culture they’ve been a part of.
Although when I was reading this entry in the novel it almost felt like it came out of nowhere / was kind of ‘uncalled for’… if you can call positive enforcement uncalled for.

But it does make me think - with the Jewish culture being an older than time culture which exists to this day and has been the source of many different themes of inspiration, fear, and conflict.

What does it mean for someone like me, who wants to use it / exploit it for its knowledge / faith / history in form of writing and understanding to make what I create more convicting.

You may have seen the Rick and Morty episode of the adventure crew or something where Rick gets hammered and murders all the superheroes who were struggling to kill the anti hero, which Rick kills with ease. On one of his trials they mention the planet Dorian 5 (I think) but morty steps in and says Israel. Because Rick always goes on a tangeant when he’s drunk, after which he steps in and says something along the lines about being pro Israel, though he only seems to bring up the negative points.

This then brings me back to a place of personal belief. That belief is that nothing in life has one side of the coin. There is negative, and there is positive. Never choose one side, take from both. Even if mr miyagi says, walk in middle - get squished like grape.

I am interested in a few things regarding the topic.

What kind of other world religions / cultures have had similar downfalls, or just plain conflict similar to Judaism?

Are they still around? What happened?

(I’m thinking along the lines of the Templars)

Can you be anti Semitic and not a Nazi / skinhead? Can you be pro Semitic while also being a Nazi?

I think a lot of these questions are highly political but also come down to very simple core principles. Balance, belief, and fear.

I have heard some people say that fear doesn’t exist. While I would definitely agree, I find it impossible not to disagree, because of what fear can incite, violence, propaganda, negative influence so on and so forth.

With me when it comes to writing, I would never want to look at just one side of the coin, I like to look at both, the only issue is that if you have the coin, while looking at it you will only ever see one side until you rotate it to view the other side, which in theory leaves you the opportunity to grab another coin of the same design and flip it, place them down and analyse both. But where does that take you?

Note for the admins & mods:
Yes, I am relatively new to these forums. My intention is to stir up a healthy debate about a very heavy and powerful ongoing topic. I have read the forum rules and I believe I am within the correct margins of creating a post. If not, please contact me via DM to let me know.

All the best.

CHIP IN!

 

[Chasejxyz]

Have you ever actually talked to a Jewish person? Like a real, live Jewish person? I feel like if you did, you wouldn't have a lot of these questions.

There are plenty of Jews who are not happy with the things Israel is doing, who are not happy with the anti-vaxx* belief of Ultra-Orthodox communities...but here's the big thing about the Israel "problem": the reason why the Holocaust was as bad as it was was because there was no "Jewish homeland" country for them to be in. Countries like America refused to take more Jewish refugees when they were fleeing Europe. But by having their own country, they're able to defend themselves if something like that happened again. The Holocaust was so horrible that it affected the genes of the survivors, causing physical and mental health issues for those born well after it, it is literally generational trauma.

But there are also plenty of Jews who are "one issue" voters, which is "is this candidate pro-Israel?" Which is why they voted for Trump. There are plenty of Jews who believe that if you are not 100% pro everything Israel is doing, then you're an antisemite and just as bad as an actual, real Nazi. But mostly, there are a ton of Jews who are really tired of gentiles coming up to them and saying "hey, can you do all the emotional/intellectual labor for me and tell me about this antisemitic stuff? I'm going to make you think about this traumatic crap because I have a passing fancy knowing what you might think about it, kthanks."

There are plenty of religions that have had people do stuff that many have considered "a bad move." Jesus was very "you should be nice to people, no matter who you are" and yet many missionaries committed genocide against native populations. Mormons forcibly convert people to Mormonism after death so they can go to Mormon Planet when they die, including victims of the Holocaust. Whatever religion you, personally, are (and this includes having no religion, btw), I can very easily find multiple instances of your faith committing really horrible things. Every group that is sufficiently large has stuff like this.

Part of being a writer is doing your own research. See, there's this thing called "google," where you can type in questions like "did the Hare Krishna ever do anything bad?" and then you use those reading comprehension skills you developed in middle school and find the answer on your own. If, say, you are Amish and you cannot use the Internet, you can go to your local library and ask the research librarian there these questions. They were the google before google made google.

*This isn't because of any Jewish laws, btw. It's because gentile anti-vaxx people have gone out of their way to make anti-vaxx literature in Hebrew and pass them around Brooklyn and such. Every single rabbi says "get your vaccines! You have a duty to protect others, which means getting vaccinated!" but they believe these anti-vaxx idiots

 

[Insolent Lad]

Until the founding of modern Israel, all Jews were part of a refugee population, a people apart in language and culture from those among whom they lived. There have certainly been other such through history, though the Jewish people have been more persistent than most about keeping to their own ways. We could name the Romani, for example (it's no surprise the Nazis sent them to their deaths alongside the Jews). These folk are always mistrusted by the populations among whom they live. They are 'different.' One could find plenty enough similar groups through history; most are eventually assimilated in one way or another.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Have you ever actually talked to a Jewish person? Like a real, live Jewish person? I feel like if you did, you wouldn't have a lot of these questions.

Whatever religion you, personally, are (and this includes having no religion, btw), I can very easily find multiple instances of your faith committing really horrible things. Every group that is sufficiently large has stuff like this.

thank you for your detailed reply.

the reason I ask these questions is because I lack the knowledge, I also understand that people can use some things to exploit others or to one up them I suppose. I had an interesting conversation a few years ago with my father about Jewish culture, my father is Christian and I was raised the same way. He mentioned that Judaism was a naive religion that refused to see the truth in the bible.

Another reason I’m asking these questions is because religion has played a big part in my life, I stopped attending church as a teenager and started doing drugs, leaving school early and considered my self the black sheep. Recently I saw an image online of a covid mask of 20 or so sheep running off a cliff and one black sheep battling its way to walk back against the herd, away from the cliff.

when I think about that image I think, only the black sheep can see the cliff, the white sheep, while he is surrounded by them, battling his way against them as they, one by one, make their way to their death, he survives by walking the opposite direction. But I think to this. Do the white sheep see the cliff? Are they truly falling off a cliff? To their death?

I think that with my life’s path, similar to that story in the bible, I am the black sheep that literally wants to return to the herd, but not because of Jesus, because I.. well, don’t believe he was the son of god. But I do believe in the narrative, I believe that there is a protector, god, protecting the sheep from being eaten by the wolves, and the black sheep is the only one that will be eaten. The cliff is the mouth of the wolf and the longer you see it, the more inevitable your end becomes.

& yes, I do know people of Jewish denomination (one guy lol) and he’s been somewhat of a guiding light for me.

I can also agree with what you’re saying about pro semitics being not pro but all semitism, I followed this Jewish girl on Twitter, out of the 100+ Twitter accounts she follows, about 80% are Israel related.

but yeah man, I just want to have some balance in the things I am learning / proceeding with

 

[Devor]

I don’t think you understand what you’re posting here when you mention pro/anti Semitism. Antisemitism is judging a Jewish person for being Jewish. Judaism is kind of both a race and a religion, so it is just bigotry.

However, we are not debating a religion practiced by millions worldwide, and Israel is firmly nestled in politics, which are banned.

I’m locking this thread.