Art v. Commerce

[Steerpike]

Which one are you writing? And if commercial interests are not your main concern, will it bother you if you don't top the market?

I'm less charitable than Hamilton in that I will reduce a lot of the criticisms of top-sellers to jealousy. Nevertheless, she makes some good points here, and it is an interesting read:

Indie Author: Fifty Shades of Hypocrisy

 

[Jabrosky]

Honestly, my ideal would combine popularity and quality. I want more than anything to be widely recognized as a good author. That said, if I really had to choose between commercial success and quality prose, without a doubt I'd go with the latter. Some of my favorite books are the horribly underrated ones anyway.

 

[JCFarnham]

Which one are you writing? And if commercial interests are not your main concern, will it bother you if you don't top the market?

I'm less charitable than Hamilton in that I will reduce a lot of the criticisms of top-sellers to jealousy. Nevertheless, she makes some good points here, and it is an interesting read:

Indie Author: Fifty Shades of Hypocrisy

The last line of the blog says it for me.

If you, as a writer, are enjoying what you're writing and find it satisfying then you've done your job. If you want to be read by as many people as possible then being artistic isn't for you, telling a story is. I guess in that sense it isn't so much Art vs. Commerce as it is art vs. commerce vs. story telling as I do think they're different.

Anyway, don't write something and be a hypocrit when it turns out it's been targetted wrong.

Honestly, my ideal would combine popularity and quality. I want more than anything to be widely recognized as a good author. That said, if I really had to choose between commercial success and quality prose, without a doubt I'd go with the latter. Some of my favorite books are the horribly underrated ones anyway.

I've always engaged more with media that's been critically derided. It's a bizarre phenomenon really. Some of my most favourite movies for example actually lost money in the box office for their studios. Do critics not know anything? Are they picking holes things for the sake of it? Well I guess that probably is the problem.

Anyway yeah, I agree with Jabrosky.

 

[Jabrosky]

I've decided to take a closer look at the OP article.

Look at the most popular television shows, musical acts and movies in the West. And by "popular", I mean the most commercially successful. With very, very few exceptions, it's all lowest-common-denominator tripe, aimed at the 18-35 demographic, promoting the pursuit of youth, physical beauty, material gain and fame, above all else. If I wanted to put it more kindly, I might say it's escapist wish-fulfillment material.

For many of us, life is already throwing enough physical, mental and emotional work our way that when we have a few minutes or hours to spare on entertainment, all we want is the cinematic, musical or literary equivalent of junk food. We want something shiny to distract us for a little while, that's all. I'd have to count myself as part of that population most of the time, for the past few years.

Then there's the (possibly larger) population of people who never seek out anything but the shallowist escapism in their entertainment. If a movie, song or book happens to make them think a little, fine. But they're not looking for that, and if it requires them to think too much, they're turned off because it starts to feel more like work than entertainment. It stops being fun, and nowadays, consumers expect everything from driving directions to language lessons to be fun.

I don't know if I agree with this author's judgement of popular taste, or with the widespread notion that the masses are stupid and tasteless. They may be ignorant, yes, but frankly not everyone can invest the time or money into a quality education, and ignorance is by no means synonymous with stupidity or poor taste anyway.

It's true that books like Fifty Shades and Twilight sell well, but it doesn't follow that most people actually like them. Sometimes it's curiosity or social pressures that drive these sales. I for one bought Twilight only to see how bad it really was. Other people might buy a book simply to see what the fuss is all about. Furthermore, while there were indeed a vocal number of Twilight fangirls back in the day, I've never seen any commentary on Fifty Shades that wasn't mocking or otherwise critical. The worst these books' popularity probably says about people writ large is that we are susceptible to social pressures, but we are social primates after all.

BTW, escapist entertainment and good writing are not mutually exclusive. In fact they may actually complement each other very well, and the most enduring escapist stories are those that are well-written. Stuff like Twilight will probably be forgotten in a generation or two.

Guess what? Quality prose is rarely described as "fun". It can actually be quite demanding. Clever turns of phrase often hinge on historical or literary references. Similes and metaphors are built on the foundation of a shared vocabulary between writer and reader. Intricate plots require the reader to keep track of multiple plot threads and character arcs.

If anything, good prose is the kind that clearly communicates its message to as many readers as possible. The kind of prose the blogger describes sounds more pretentious and obfuscating, and bad prose is nothing if not obfuscating.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I don't really care if my work is considered art. I only want to entertain the reader. Everything else is secondary. To be a commercial success would be ideal because of the freedom it would allow and the ability to write full time but I will never be concerned about the members of some literary establishment judging my work against some ideal.

My goal is to be read & enjoyed.... Period. The more people that read it & like the work the better. The craft of writing is important to me as long as it is geared towards improving the entertainment of my reader. Beyond that, I'm not concerned with some altruistic ideal of art.

I have nothing against people who want to produce art, it's just not for me. Often, I find other people's opinion of art to be stuffy, pompous, or elitist. Furthermore, a lot of the derision directed at these commercial successes is no more than an example of this artful elitist mentality. "It's not well written! Why is she a millionaire?!" She told a good story in the eyes of her market demographic. They gobbled it up because they found it entertaining. She probably wasn't trying to be the next Harper Lee. That author was just trying to entertain.

If you can entertain with a work that has some high concept of artistic merit, the more power to you. For me though, I'll just try to tell a good story. Readers can vote with their wallets.

 

[Jabrosky]

I don't really care if my work is considered art. I only want to entertain the reader. Everything else is secondary. To be a commercial success would be ideal because of the freedom it would allow and the ability to write full time but I will never be concerned about the members of some literary establishment judging my work against some ideal.

My goal is to be read & enjoyed.... Period. The more people that read it & like the work the better. The craft of writing is important to me as long as it is geared towards improving the entertainment of my reader. Beyond that, I'm not concerned with some altruistic ideal of art.

I have nothing against people who want to produce art, it's just not for me. Often, I find other people's opinion of art to be stuffy, pompous, or elitist. Furthermore, a lot of the derision directed at these commercial successes is no more than an example of this artful elitist mentality. "It's not well written! Why is she a millionaire?!" She told a good story in the eyes of her market demographic. They gobbled it up because they found it entertaining. She probably wasn't trying to be the next Harper Lee. That author was just trying to entertain.

If you can entertain with a work that has some high concept of artistic merit, the more power to you. For me though, I'll just try to tell a good story. Readers can vote with their wallets.

I know I said earlier in this thread that I would prefer quality over commercial success, but truthfully I believe that if my work entertains everyone who reads it, it counts as high quality, even if artistic elitists spurn it for goodness knows what reason. Truly awful writing is the kind that doesn't work for anyone.

 

[Steerpike]

I don't know anyone who is into Fifty Shades of Gray (though obviously many of them are). The people I know who were into Twilight really loved it, and I suspect that accounts for the vast majority of purchases. In that respect, there is value there, and that goes along with my idea of storytelling v. writing (JC, I like your distinction of art v. commerce v. storytelling).

I'm writing what I like, but also what I think will have some commercial appeal. It happens that the two overlap at some point. There are things I am not interested in writing, but that might sell. And there I things I might think would be really cool to try, but that wouldn't sell. Somewhere in between there are things that I really have fun writing and would also sell.

 

[Caged Maiden]

I don't think the decision is as black and white as saying, "Hmm... I can either do this story so it's mind-blowingly awesome, or I can throw a bunch of random s*** together in hopes it's entertaining to a dumb public."

I think authors want to tell their stories and a lot of the chips fall where they do. That's why we submit to certain agents, who work with people like us, in similar genres, and know the market.

It's unfortunate that there are bad books published, but then, doesn't it open the door for more people to enter into a market? I'm not enamored by the portrayal of vampires in Twilight, but I love vampires and if I was writing a vampire novel, I'd just be happy that vampires are no longer viewed as terrible monsters only found in horror, which I don't read or watch.

With the opening of that door, and the embracing by the public of something formerly found only in small doses, it allows us all a little more freedom to get creative. Look at it this way, there are now a load of young people who are hungry for more vampire tales, and there are no more Twilight books... Who is going to fill their hearts next?

@ Steerpike. Thanks for all your updates. I am a bit embarrassed to say that my life is too busy to locate all these gems you post, but you keep me updated anyways.

 

[TWErvin2]

Stories like Twilight, stated by many to be shallow, poor writing, has a storyline that spoke to many young women, and maybe a few guys. The author, Stephenie Meyer, happened to be on target for that.

That's why romance novels (and the genre) sell well. Yes, they're formulaic, but it's what the reader is interested in. Whine and complain, but that's the way it is. That's what a large number of readers are interested in laying out money for. It's the type of entertainment they desire.

Why do people go to the same restaurant all the time, even order the same meal over and over? They know what to expect--it's what they're looking for and are happy and comfortable with. That's why quest or epic fantasy still sells, although maybe not as well as bodice ripper romances. Writers here ask if elves or dragons are cliche or overused in fantasy. Well, they're common, but maybe that's because that's what readers are interested in.

Yes, there are readers out there interested in something unique or totally different, but maybe not the majority--at least not initially. Maybe word of mouth will interest them to branch out. Maybe not.

I write what I would like to find on the shelf (and thus, making an effort to get it there). Is it commercial or art? For me it's just storytelling that I hope sells.

Heck, I don't know what makes one painting at a museum great art vs. another. But some folks do, and will pay millions of dollars at auction to obtain it. As anyone here read any of the Nobel Peace Prizes for Literature recently? I've not. But few highly educated folks thought it was worth an award (and prize money). Anybody ever see any fantasy novels awarded?

Okay, I'm rambling a bit...but I do believe it's possible for a writer to write what the mass market loves and craves. I think it takes a really good writer to pull it off--to write a copy cat, or close to it--of what's rocket-blastoff successful, and do really well.

Me, I'm going to stick with what I enjoy writing and figure to convince the reading public it's worth their time, and maybe a few bucks to read.

 

[Caged Maiden]

You and me both, Terry.

I wish the world was fair, and that hard work was always rewarded, but then, would I be considered one of the hard workers?

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I believe that part of this author on author violence can be attributed to the fact that no one really knows why one book or series runs off as an overnight success while other works (possibly better written) languor in relative obscurity.

@Terry Are you saying that we should be writing Epic Elven bodice ripper romances?!

 

[Steerpike]

@Terry Are you saying that we should be writing Epic Elven bodice ripper romances?!

Opening for my next novel, the future epic-bestseller:

"Aluriel strained against the leather stitching of her bodice, which served to delay only temporarily an inevitable mammary explosion. Legulis watched in slack-jawed anticipation."

The story develops from there.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

Opening for my next novel, the future epic-bestseller:

"Aluriel strained against the leather stitching of her bodice, which served to delay only temporarily an inevitable mammary explosion. Legulis watched in slack-jawed anticipation."

The story develops from there.

Consider me a Pre-order....

 

[Steerpike]

Consider me a Pre-order....

Awesome. That's at least one sale. If I price my book at $500,000 per copy, my work is done!

 

[TWErvin2]

@Terry Are you saying that we should be writing Epic Elven bodice ripper romances?!

I guess you could say that was my point

Opening for my next novel, the future epic-bestseller:

"Aluriel strained against the leather stitching of her bodice, which served to delay only temporarily an inevitable mammary explosion. Legulis watched in slack-jawed anticipation."

The story develops from there.

They say novels should start out in the middle of the action. Now, if it's a SF/Fantasy cross where Sigourney Weaver type Aliens have infected the elven maiden's bosom, and are preparing to burst forth...well, that might reach even a wider audience than the romance/fantasy crossover...you are so sharp and on top of things, Steerpike!

 

[ShortHair]

On his first live album, Jimmy Buffett related this tidbit. Someone asked him how he could write such sensitive songs and then write such trashy songs. He responded that at times he felt sensitive and at times he felt trashy. He and the band then played "Why Don't We Get Drunk and Screw."

I submit that it's possible to do both. The book I'm working on now is a fantasy, and I hope it will become a best seller because it's not like anything out there (as far as I know). I don't expect it to be a best seller, I just hope it will. Call this Book A.

After that I have a fictionalized autobiography ready to go. Those of you who think that your life is boring or that nothing ever happens to you, take heed. You should give thanks to whatever guiding force you believe in that you can think so. The working title for this book is Family Business (think about that for a while). It should go straight to the Local Authors shelf. Call this Book B.

After that I have a pseudo-scifi thriller. Not too much scifi, not much gore, it should make a feel-good family movie. What I've written so far came very easily. Call this Book C.

I made a conscious decision, actually a New Year's resolution, to work on Book A. Last year, 2011, not 2012. It's been a tough row to hoe, but I'm glad I did it. The narrator is one of those characters that won't let you slack off.

The point is that Book A and Book B probably won't make any money, while Book C just might. I plan to publish all three books under three different names. If Book C succeeds, then the person who wrote Book A and Book B can quit his day job.

 

[Feo Takahari]

I don't see any reason why a work intended to appeal to the masses can't have something clever behind it. For instance, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is a show that invites deep thought, but by no means is it a show that requires deep thought, appealing equally to juvenile and mature audiences (in both senses of those words.)

(This, and the general issue of how to write an easy-to-understand story with something deeper behind it, is one of many, many topics I plan to discuss more fully in one of my essays.)

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

I know I hammer on this idea a lot, but it's all about what your goals are.

If your goal is to be wealthy, then you're better off trying to write stuff that panders and blatantly manipulates people's emotions.

If your goal is to be respected, then you're better off taking time and care to craft intricate, thoughtful works.

If your goal is to be wealthy and respected: good luck with that.

 

[BWFoster78]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Regarding Art vs Commercialism, the question I would ask is: would you alter your story simply to try to gain more readers? I'm not talking making something more clear or strengthening a theme. Would you change your plot just so it will appeal to more readers? I'm not saying one answer is better than another, but it's probably a question that we, if we ever experience any level of real success, should be prepared to answer.
2. Regarding "popular" fiction: I have not read Fifty Shades, but my wife did. She thought it was extremely poorly written and didn't see what all the fuss was about. Twilight, on the other hand, was enjoyed by both of us. Meyer may have faults, but, personally, I found the writing engaging. I had fun reading it, experienced an emotional response to the material, and didn't want to put the book down once I started it. These are all traits that I aspire to in my own writing.

 

[Steerpike]

@BWFoster:

Regarding point one, this is also a question you may have to answer if you go with a traditional publisher. I know a fantasy writer who was asked to remove an important death from her book and make a romantic subplot the main plot so the book could be positioned to sell more.

Regarding Twilight, I think that's the reaction the vast majority had, which is why Meyer sold so damn many books.