• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Anything controversial about my martial art fantasy story?

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
It's not a bad thing for authors to think about stuff like this, but you can't use it as
But just from the honest criticism alone, imagine how readers and critics out there will look at this, they'll probably call me a racist for making this story :(
Is there a bloodline that does not have some mixing of ethnicities? Is it possible to have a villain with no ethnicity at all?
The MC's bloodline, his villain teacher and his good teacher all don't have any mixing of ethnicities and all three are just white. And the Chinese emperor would be just Chinese, so no mixed heritage as well. What do you mean by no ethnicity?
Truth is, the world is full of people who can deal, and those that cant will hold us back. Let go of them.
I'm trying, but that fear sometimes takes over :(
If in writing your story your sense is its just too far over the line, then maybe its not the story you believe in anyway.
It's not that I don't believe in it, it's that I want to write it best I can so it doesn't end up as one big mess of clichés and stereotypes :(
You need to the write the story in you heart and be true to it. A good story is a good story. Aim for that
I have a great story in mind. I just need to change things up, maybe I should just change the wife's heritage from being Ainu to just Japanese?
 
I have a great story in mind. I just need to change things up, maybe I should just change the wife's heritage from being Ainu to just Japanese?
Or make this animal spirit power something that exists across races. That way, Ainu people or Japanese people or Asians aren't the only ones who have it. Maybe it's something like the wizardry gene in Potterverse: rare in any ethnic group, but existent in all ethnic groups. That makes the difference not an ethnic difference, so takes it out of stereotype territory.
 

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
The *only* reason the nemesis is an American old-school kung fu teacher is because that's what you chose. You could have chosen to make him Canadian, a female, new-school, jujitsu or some other discipline, renegade rather than teacher
This is going to sound crazy, but I chose American old school kung fu teacher because I'm basing it off a real villain from real life that I experienced as a child :(
It's possible--and I do not mean this specifically to you--that the choice was unconscious, drawing on stereotypes.
Italy sounds that way, but this character is based off a bad person in real life, it may sound like a stereotype to others that watched those old movies with bad martial art American teachers, but this is something that actually happened. Am actual bad guy martial arts teacher that was abusive, violent and even has a bad sexual behavior. I figured i can write this since I can relate to this and experienced it. This is my concern that while Iay of lived and experienced it, others will not know this and think I'm taking old karate and kung fu bad guy master tropes and reusing them :(
I'm sure all this (from me and others) can make you feel uncertain at best, and maybe even attacked. We don't mean it in that spirit. Rather, we saw a question asked that in turn raises a whole constellation of other questions, and we're suggesting you need to have a look at those as well.
I don't mean to feel attacked. I'm not trying to pinpoint anyone for that. I accept honest criticism, but I think I have a difficult time explaining why I choose these ideas and it may appear like they are chosen for the sake of simplicity tropes, which can be very problematic :(
 

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
Maybe it's something like the wizardry gene in Potterverse: rare in any ethnic group, but existent in all ethnic groups. That makes the difference not an ethnic difference, so takes it out of stereotype territory.
Perfect! But that means that each animal spirit would have to represent the animal from each country and territory right? Example; Japanese person with an animal spirit likely could be a fox or raccoon dog, from China could be a swan or panda and a Siberian tiger from Eastern Europe?
 

Queshire

Auror
This is going to sound crazy, but I chose American old school kung fu teacher because I'm basing it off a real villain from real life that I experienced as a child :(

As much as people say that you should write what you know it's important to give thought to whether or not you're too close to a subject to write about it.
 

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
Is there something terribly wrong with having a white American villain that was a bad kung fu teacher and ex military? It's not like he's a representation of any particular group in a negative light is he? :(
 

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
If you've got too many emotions wrapped up in something that can prevent you from doing what you need to for the benefit of the story. Now, I don't know you well enough to know if that's something that applies in your case, but it's still something to consider
No, if anything, this is what helps to motivate me to write my story and come up with interesting ideas for the villain and get creative from my own experiences. Steven King even used some inspiration based on true events in his life for some of his stories and look how creative he got with them. Only thing holding me back is that many others have told me, it's something I need to be cautious of writing, which I don't understand why:( even J.K Rowling used real inspiration of a bad school teacher :( why am I not allowed? :(
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
Of course you are allowed. Just be aware that when you are explicitly dealing with race, you are treading ground that is more highly charged than if you were, say, writing about trees or mealworms. I know of a writer who wrote multiple epics about termite people. That's fine, if a bit dull. Write those same stories about real-world peoples--tribes, races, certain nationalities--and you're guaranteed to have at least some blowback.

It sounds like you are trying to find safe ground, to write about these types and tropes while being guaranteed no one will protest. That ain't gonna happen. Just because some readers out there are going to say you got this or that wrong, or even that you are racist in some way or other, doesn't mean you're being foreclosed from writing. It just means that words have consequences. Authors are well-advised to know about them and to judge for themselves whether they think the story justifies the cost, whether great or small.
 

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
Of course you are allowed. Just be aware that when you are explicitly dealing with race, you are treading ground that is more highly charged than if you were, say, writing about trees or mealworms.
But how can something like this be avoided? If I just make the entire cast all white martial artists with animal spirits, with not a single PoC having any, I'll be called a racist for excluding PoC's. If I make both white and PoC characters martial artists with animal spirits, I'll get called out for stereotyping and being racist to PoC's :(
know of a writer who wrote multiple epics about termite people. That's fine, if a bit dull. Write those same stories about real-world peoples--tribes, races, certain nationalities--and you're guaranteed to have at least some blowback.
But what if these certain nationalities are the good guys? I already have a white main villain, the MC's protagonist son and his mom are literally hereos of this story and they are descended from this group of minority heritage. Is the only way to avoid controversy is to write about trees and insect people? :(
Just because some readers out there are going to say you got this or that wrong, or even that you are racist in some way or other, doesn't mean you're being foreclosed from writing. It just means that words have consequences. Authors are well-advised to know about them and to judge for themselves whether they think the story justifies the cost, whether great or small.
I understand and that is why I'm taking precautions, but does any of this I presented so far sound at all racist? :(
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
It again sounds like you are asking for assurances. You aren't going to get any. This is a topic with risk inherent. So would be writing about suicide or mental illness or any of a hundred other topics. But while I won't offer guarantees, I can at least sketch possible risk. I've done some of that already; so have others on this thread.

First, if you write the story well, most readers will find the story admirable. Your first task is that. Not somehow ensuring your topic isn't racist. The task is to write a good story well.

Second, you have no way to estimate reaction. It might be really bad, with Internet trolls and negative reviews. But it also might be quite muted, with only a person here or there complaining. And the complaints might themselves be more a rant than a critique. Or you might get perceptive critiques that help you look at the topic in a different light. Until you write (and publish) the story, there's no way to know.

Third, you can find what are called sensitivity readers. Show the manuscript to readers with some sort of vested interest in the topics. A martial arts teacher. Japanese Americans as well as Japanese. Same for Chinese and any other ethnic groups or nationalities. Get their feedback. Once again, though, you can do this only after you have actually written the story.

I don't care about ideas, but I do care about stories. It sounds like this story is important to you, so go write it. Do your best. Then show your work to others and get feedback. There is a *ton* of work to do between writing The End, and clicking the Publish button.
 

Chasejxyz

Inkling
even J.K Rowling used real inspiration of a bad school teacher :( why am I not allowed? :(

Rowling is not a good writer, nor a good person. Do not look to her for inspiration or guidance on how to handle things with sensitivity and grace, cause she sure as hell doesn't.
 
Rowling is not a good writer, nor a good person. Do not look to her for inspiration or guidance on how to handle things with sensitivity and grace, cause she sure as hell doesn't.
Presumably, what you mean by "she sure as hell doesn't" is about her disparaging comments towards trans folk. While that's a reasonable thing not to like, it's separate from her fiction. Even if you don't like her books either, that doesn't make it wrong for another writer to use a bad school teacher character. Plenty of bad school teachers turn up in fiction, especially children's and YA fiction. Rowling is hardly the only writer to have used one, and one based on personal experience at that.

Probably all of us have had bad school teachers. It's a very relatable experience. And great inspiration when you're creating villains.
 

Chasejxyz

Inkling
Presumably, what you mean by "she sure as hell doesn't" is about her disparaging comments towards trans folk. While that's a reasonable thing not to like, it's separate from her fiction.

It's more than just that. Harry being pro-slavery has always skeeved me out since first reading it as a child, plus the whole "werewolves are a metaphor for AIDs!" falls apart as soon as you think about it. And the whole hook-nosed goblins being the bankers thing is pretty uhhhhhhhhhhhh not good either. Cho Chang. Everything about Native Americans. Need I go on? lol

If it was JUST her transphobic comments, which, theoretically, is not mentioned at all in her texts, then yeah maybe I'd agree with you. But she has absolutely rancid opinions about A Lot Of Things and it's steeped into her world-building and characters. It's impossible to separate the two, and that's on her.

The OP wants to know how to handle writing about groups of people they are not a member of in a way that is respectful. JKR can't even be bothered to Google anything (and her editors won't stand up to her or fact check her). Don't compare the two.
 
The OP wants to know how to handle writing about groups of people they are not a member of in a way that is respectful. JKR can't even be bothered to Google anything (and her editors won't stand up to her or fact check her). Don't compare the two.
Still, the question here was specifically about having a bad teacher as a villain who is inspired by an actual bad teacher the author had in their school days. That's unrelated to everything you dislike about JKR. Sure, the OP phrased it as, "She did it, why can't I?" but having a villainous teacher inspired by a real life example isn't one of her transgressions. It's a thing many writers have done. JKR is just the most famous of them and the one that will most easily come to mind for many people.
 

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
while I won't offer guarantees, I can at least sketch possible risk. I've done some of that already; so have others on this thread.
I acknowledge the risks involved and appreciate what others have told me so far. If it comes down to it, I might have to avoid having any PoC in my story of any representation of animal spirits or magic :( but is it really a risk to have a bad teacher/kung fu instructor in my story? It's been done with bad teachers, besides J.K Rowling's Harry Potter and Matilda, there is a movie called Whiplash, which makes the MC student and antagonistic teacher both somewhat relatable, while realizing the consequences this will have on the student MC, because of the antagonist teacher. What if I had something similar?
The task is to write a good story well.
That's something I want to do, most importantly.
And the complaints might themselves be more a rant than a critique. Or you might get perceptive critiques that help you look at the topic in a different light. Until you write (and publish) the story, there's no way to know.
I agree, there's no way for me to know what will happen unless it's written. But I want to make it the best of my ability, to get the right information first, to avoid any serious consequences :(
you can find what are called sensitivity readers. Show the manuscript to readers with some sort of vested interest in the topics
I'd love to do that.
A martial arts teacher. Japanese Americans as well as Japanese. Same for Chinese and any other ethnic groups or nationalities. Get their feedback. Once again, though, you can do this only after you have actually written the story.
Only problem with this is I don't personally know anyone :(
I don't care about ideas, but I do care about stories. It sounds like this story is important to you, so go write it. Do your best. Then show your work to others and get feedback. There is a *ton* of work to do between writing The End, and clicking the Publish button.
I'll try what I can and thank you. Maybe I can show some small rough draft to begin the process to others?
 

WonderingSword5

Troubadour
Rowling is not a good writer, nor a good person. Do not look to her for inspiration or guidance on how to handle things with sensitivity and
Sorry, I was just using her Harry Potter as an example of a bad teacher, since it's a well known and popular series :(
Plenty of bad school teachers turn up in fiction, especially children's and YA fiction. Rowling is hardly the only writer to have used one, and one based on personal experience at that.
Thank you, maybe I can be the next author to draw off this experience from? :)
Probably all of us have had bad school teachers. It's a very relatable experience. And great inspiration when you're creating villains.
That's exactly what I'm trying to do here! Only difference is that he would be a martial arts teacher.
 
I personally think it's impossible to judge a story by the idea / outline as written. Unless your whole idea, plot and premiss is racist, in which case don't write it.

But for what you wrote, keep what the others in this thread have said in mind and just write the story. All of these issues very much depend on how the story is written, on the execution, not on the idea. So write the story. When you're done, find some sensitivity readers and give it to them, ask their opinion. They will tell you what's good and bad about your story. That's the only way to deal with something like this.

Another thing, if this is your first novel (and I'm pretty sure it is), then don't worry about any of it. It will most likely be bad, since almost all first novels are. Just read some of the first stories Tolkien wrote (you can find them in the Book of Lost Tales). They're terrible to the point of being hard to finish. And that's about my favorite author. So, write your story and congratulate yourself on finishing a novel and one which is possibly better than the first stories written by Tolkien.

There is a very big chance no one will read or buy your first novel. That's also not the point of it. The point of a first novel is to practise the craft of writing. To learn your process and about finishing a story. It's not about writing a masterpiece.

So just write the novel. Get it our of your system and onto paper. Only when you're done worry about what people might say. Give it to a few people who's opinion you trust (who are not your family / close friends, unless they are professional editors / writers) and ask their opinion. Until then all worrying you're doing is pointless.
 
Top