Shockley
Maester
The focus of my study in college and my life's passion. I can give information on nearly every topic, though my expertise is confined to language, religion and political institutions.
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Ask Me About Early Germanic Peoples
- Thread starter Shockley
- Start date
shangrila
Inkling
Can you tell me about religion? Specifically, did they have a pantheon of gods? Did they worship their ancestors, or spirits of the land and such? Were there specific "holy men" or was anyone allowed to pray/communicate with the higher powers? Did they have specific rituals? And did they have "holy" days (I've always guessed things like the equinox, but I've never been sure)?
CupofJoe
Myth Weaver
Does your expertise go as far as the "Nibelungenlied"?
I read it a while back and find it slipping into what i write more and more...
I read it a while back and find it slipping into what i write more and more...
Jabrosky
Banned
Isn't the Norse religion descended from Germanic traditions?
- Thread starter
- #5
Shockley
Maester
A note. When I talk about ‘early Germanic people’ I mean early Germans, Norse, Lombards, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, etc. So any statement I make should read ‘around 75% or so of the Germanic people believed…’ For brevity, we’ll assume this is understood.
I absolutely can. Let me start by providing you with the very basic history of the early Germanic peoples, which sheds some light on their religion.
The early Proto Indo-Europeans lived in/around what we now know as the Caucasus Mountains. From here, they spread out across Eurasia and established themselves in several disparate regions: they became the conquering warrior class in both Persia and northern India, as well as Greeks, Latins and early Germanic peoples.
So let’s start by talking about some things that will be important.
The early Germans would have referred to their two god ‘tribes’ as Ansiz/Ansuz and Van/Wan. This is important because it establishes certain things. Ansiz/Ansuz takes on several obvious forms: It becomes Aesir in Norse, Os/Ass in Anglo-Saxon, Anses in Gothic, Asu in Sanskrit and Ahura in Avestan. Van/Wan also takes a number of later forms: Vanir and Wanir being the main ones.
Another word: Deiwos, which comes into other languages in varying forms: Tiwaz in the very earlist Germanic peoples, Tiu to the Anglo-Saxons, Tyr to the Norse, Tyz to the Goths, Deva to the Sanskrit-speaking peoples and most interestingly to me, Zeus to the Greeks (remember that Zeus has two syllables in its proper pronunciation) and Deus to the Latins.
One last word: Edda, meaning story, pronounced aa-duh. Our best source for the Norse version of the religion are the Poetic and Prose Eddas. It’s no coincidence that our best sources for the Hindu religion are called the Vedas.
Point I’m getting at is that here’s what we know of the earliest form of the religion, based purely on conjecture. They believed that they had a particular tribe of gods, who were at war with another tribe of gods .This was manifested in different forms: The Aesir-Vanir and Ass/Wan split of the Germanic peoples, the Titans/Olympians of the Greeks and the Asura/Deva of the Hindus. The Germanic religion will be particularly unique because it is the only one of these traditions that believes these tribes made peace and joined together to face another threat, something variously referred to us Etunaz, Eoten, Ettin, Jotun, Jotnar, etc. This will all make sense as I answer your questions.
The traditional understanding is that most of the Germanic tribes had three distinct pantheons of gods.
There were the Aesir/Ass/Os, which consisted (usually) of Wodenaz/Wuotan/Woden/Odin/Othinn, Tyr/Tiu/Tyz/Tiwaz, Thor/Donnar/Thunor/Perun, Frigg/Fro/Frikka/Frigga/and Wulthuz/Ull, Wyrd/Urth/Urd
There were the Wan/Van/Vanir, which consisted (usually) of Njord/Nerthus/Neord, Frey/Freyr/Fro/Fro Ing/Ingwaz, Frawjon/Froya/Freya/Freyja.
Then there are the Etunaz/Ettin/Jotun, which all have their origin in the PIE word meaning ‘eat.’ This is fitting, as they are the forces of natural chaos that oppose the gods and humanity. I can’t give you a list of this, simply because these are unique to each tribe.
*Njord/Nerthus is one of the great controversies of the study of the era, because the linguistics indicate that the Romans were talking about a goddess when they spoke of Nerthus, but Njord is very much a masculine god. Some people decided that this must mean there were two gods, paired off, but there’s nothing to support that.
Now, there is quite a bit of intermarriage between the groups. I’m going to revert to one name now in reference to every god (the Norse, as a personal preference) for sake of convenience. Hopefully this won’t throw you off. For instance, Frey comes to live with the Aesir and marries a Jotun woman – but he’s Vanir. Skadi lives among the Aesir and marries a Vanir, but she’s Jotnar.
Some of the gods appear only in one or two tribes. Irmin/Eormen is an Anglo-Saxon deity exclusively, though the Germanic Neo-Pagans now give him wider breadth. Loki/Baldur/Hoder are only really present in the Nordic myths. Forseti only makes minor appearances in other mythologies (as Forsetti/Fosite), but is seen as the king of the gods by the Lombards.|
In the more continental traditions, Tiu/Tyz/Tyr/Tiwaz seems more popular and revered than Odin, and his supremacy seems like more of a Norse/Anglo-Saxon aberration. The Romans caught onto this fairly quickly, which is why they equated Tiu/Tyz/Tiwaz/Tyr with Jupiter and Wodenaz/Woden/Odin with Mercury.
Ancestor worship was common, and the Aesir/Vanir were seen as the very first ancestors of man. They had a creation myth (man was created from the ash tree), but after that the gods freely intermingled with the human line.
This is important, as it plays a cultural role in Germanic myth. With the Greeks, you have the concept of the demigod as hero. With the Hindus, you have avatars. Within the Germanic tradition, it is just a man who goes on a quest and isn’t afraid of the dangers he faces. Had the Germans fully understood a myth like Hercules, I’m certain they would have scoffed at it and pulled out their own impressive genealogies.
Although the Germanic religion was snuffed out fairly quickly, we can see the seeds of some very complex thought developing in the most recent sources. They were developing ideas of reincarnation (A unique reincarnation theory, where there was a line connecting every member of the family. An individual was an incarnation of the line and all the luck/goodwill they had accumulated, as opposed to being a reborn individual).
So yes, quite a bit of stock was put into honoring the ancestors and ancestor worship.
This as well.
Your spirit was the ‘vaettir.’ To show how exactly they regarded the vaettir, it’s important to understand that the Aesir/Ass/Os and Vanir/Van/Wan are considered vaettir. The words ‘wight’ and ‘wiht’ both come from vaettir as well, and have the general meaning ‘a living being.’ So in a way, humans are vaettir as well.
In the Alvisamal, the races of existence are listed as Aesir, Vanir, Jotnar, Alfar, Dvergar and Man.
Albiz/Alfar/Alf/Aelf/Elf: We might be tempted to view this (as with the next one) as a port of sorts of the modern fantasy elf. That is a creation of later writers, usually seen with the start of the ‘Elf Knight’ trope in romantic ballads. They are best described as being on the level of the Aesir/Ass/Os and Vanir/Wan/Van, just taking on a role closer to nature/fertility gods. We have at least one piece of material referring to Loki as ‘alfr’ and Freyr/Frey/Fro/Fro Ing/Ingwaz was universally seen as the rules of the elves and ruled from somewhere known as ‘Home of the Elfs’ (with different renderings in different languages, of course). So, very powerful natural spirits who could, like every other form of vaettir, freely intermingle with men.
Dvergar/Dweorg/Zwerc/Dwarf: I wish I could say that this was something unique and different from what Tolkien reintroduced into the popular conscience, but not really. These were vaettir that lived in the mountains and were very small and acted as craftsmen for god and man. There one added benefit is that, ritualistically, they probably had some tie to a death cult.
In addition to the above, there are a few more interesting myths about the Dvergar. For one, the Norse believed that they were created when the corpse of Ymir was made into the earth – they were the maggots eating his rotting corpse. In addition, there is at least one story saying that they fashioned Ask and Embla (the ash tree from which man was created).
All of these land spirits would have been venerated to some extent, though the term ‘veneration’ is a poor way to describe what the Germanic tribes actually did.
Not necessarily ‘holy men,’ but figures that were directed to lead the religious ceremonies of the community. The term here is ‘Godi/Gothi,’ literally meaning ‘god-man.’ An important thing to note here is that, since they saw the gods as their ancestors and their community as part of the community of the gods, there was little division between civil and religious authority. The godi was often the chieftain, or whatever civil authority there was at the time.
They didn’t communicate with the gods, at least not how we would view that process in a community that is, at least on some level, religiously Christian. So there was no real need for a priestly class.
That said, we know of two Germanic communities with strong religious bents.
There was one group, dedicating themselves to constant rites, which lived on the coast in Norway. I don’t remember their name off the top of my head, but there were accusations from the Christians of the time that they practiced orgiastic rites.
The second group was the Jomsvikings, or more properly, the residents of Jomsborg. They were dedicated to the service of the Aesir, built their own city and then inducted traveling warriors into one of the first religious fighting groups in history. They become a major force in history when they serve under Olaf Trygvason (a Christian) as a mercenary force, but betray him to his opponents after it becomes obvious that he is going to ban the old religion. They are eventually slaughtered to the man.
I absolutely can. Let me start by providing you with the very basic history of the early Germanic peoples, which sheds some light on their religion.
The early Proto Indo-Europeans lived in/around what we now know as the Caucasus Mountains. From here, they spread out across Eurasia and established themselves in several disparate regions: they became the conquering warrior class in both Persia and northern India, as well as Greeks, Latins and early Germanic peoples.
So let’s start by talking about some things that will be important.
The early Germans would have referred to their two god ‘tribes’ as Ansiz/Ansuz and Van/Wan. This is important because it establishes certain things. Ansiz/Ansuz takes on several obvious forms: It becomes Aesir in Norse, Os/Ass in Anglo-Saxon, Anses in Gothic, Asu in Sanskrit and Ahura in Avestan. Van/Wan also takes a number of later forms: Vanir and Wanir being the main ones.
Another word: Deiwos, which comes into other languages in varying forms: Tiwaz in the very earlist Germanic peoples, Tiu to the Anglo-Saxons, Tyr to the Norse, Tyz to the Goths, Deva to the Sanskrit-speaking peoples and most interestingly to me, Zeus to the Greeks (remember that Zeus has two syllables in its proper pronunciation) and Deus to the Latins.
One last word: Edda, meaning story, pronounced aa-duh. Our best source for the Norse version of the religion are the Poetic and Prose Eddas. It’s no coincidence that our best sources for the Hindu religion are called the Vedas.
Point I’m getting at is that here’s what we know of the earliest form of the religion, based purely on conjecture. They believed that they had a particular tribe of gods, who were at war with another tribe of gods .This was manifested in different forms: The Aesir-Vanir and Ass/Wan split of the Germanic peoples, the Titans/Olympians of the Greeks and the Asura/Deva of the Hindus. The Germanic religion will be particularly unique because it is the only one of these traditions that believes these tribes made peace and joined together to face another threat, something variously referred to us Etunaz, Eoten, Ettin, Jotun, Jotnar, etc. This will all make sense as I answer your questions.
The traditional understanding is that most of the Germanic tribes had three distinct pantheons of gods.
There were the Aesir/Ass/Os, which consisted (usually) of Wodenaz/Wuotan/Woden/Odin/Othinn, Tyr/Tiu/Tyz/Tiwaz, Thor/Donnar/Thunor/Perun, Frigg/Fro/Frikka/Frigga/and Wulthuz/Ull, Wyrd/Urth/Urd
There were the Wan/Van/Vanir, which consisted (usually) of Njord/Nerthus/Neord, Frey/Freyr/Fro/Fro Ing/Ingwaz, Frawjon/Froya/Freya/Freyja.
Then there are the Etunaz/Ettin/Jotun, which all have their origin in the PIE word meaning ‘eat.’ This is fitting, as they are the forces of natural chaos that oppose the gods and humanity. I can’t give you a list of this, simply because these are unique to each tribe.
*Njord/Nerthus is one of the great controversies of the study of the era, because the linguistics indicate that the Romans were talking about a goddess when they spoke of Nerthus, but Njord is very much a masculine god. Some people decided that this must mean there were two gods, paired off, but there’s nothing to support that.
Now, there is quite a bit of intermarriage between the groups. I’m going to revert to one name now in reference to every god (the Norse, as a personal preference) for sake of convenience. Hopefully this won’t throw you off. For instance, Frey comes to live with the Aesir and marries a Jotun woman – but he’s Vanir. Skadi lives among the Aesir and marries a Vanir, but she’s Jotnar.
Some of the gods appear only in one or two tribes. Irmin/Eormen is an Anglo-Saxon deity exclusively, though the Germanic Neo-Pagans now give him wider breadth. Loki/Baldur/Hoder are only really present in the Nordic myths. Forseti only makes minor appearances in other mythologies (as Forsetti/Fosite), but is seen as the king of the gods by the Lombards.|
In the more continental traditions, Tiu/Tyz/Tyr/Tiwaz seems more popular and revered than Odin, and his supremacy seems like more of a Norse/Anglo-Saxon aberration. The Romans caught onto this fairly quickly, which is why they equated Tiu/Tyz/Tiwaz/Tyr with Jupiter and Wodenaz/Woden/Odin with Mercury.
Ancestor worship was common, and the Aesir/Vanir were seen as the very first ancestors of man. They had a creation myth (man was created from the ash tree), but after that the gods freely intermingled with the human line.
This is important, as it plays a cultural role in Germanic myth. With the Greeks, you have the concept of the demigod as hero. With the Hindus, you have avatars. Within the Germanic tradition, it is just a man who goes on a quest and isn’t afraid of the dangers he faces. Had the Germans fully understood a myth like Hercules, I’m certain they would have scoffed at it and pulled out their own impressive genealogies.
Although the Germanic religion was snuffed out fairly quickly, we can see the seeds of some very complex thought developing in the most recent sources. They were developing ideas of reincarnation (A unique reincarnation theory, where there was a line connecting every member of the family. An individual was an incarnation of the line and all the luck/goodwill they had accumulated, as opposed to being a reborn individual).
So yes, quite a bit of stock was put into honoring the ancestors and ancestor worship.
This as well.
Your spirit was the ‘vaettir.’ To show how exactly they regarded the vaettir, it’s important to understand that the Aesir/Ass/Os and Vanir/Van/Wan are considered vaettir. The words ‘wight’ and ‘wiht’ both come from vaettir as well, and have the general meaning ‘a living being.’ So in a way, humans are vaettir as well.
In the Alvisamal, the races of existence are listed as Aesir, Vanir, Jotnar, Alfar, Dvergar and Man.
Albiz/Alfar/Alf/Aelf/Elf: We might be tempted to view this (as with the next one) as a port of sorts of the modern fantasy elf. That is a creation of later writers, usually seen with the start of the ‘Elf Knight’ trope in romantic ballads. They are best described as being on the level of the Aesir/Ass/Os and Vanir/Wan/Van, just taking on a role closer to nature/fertility gods. We have at least one piece of material referring to Loki as ‘alfr’ and Freyr/Frey/Fro/Fro Ing/Ingwaz was universally seen as the rules of the elves and ruled from somewhere known as ‘Home of the Elfs’ (with different renderings in different languages, of course). So, very powerful natural spirits who could, like every other form of vaettir, freely intermingle with men.
Dvergar/Dweorg/Zwerc/Dwarf: I wish I could say that this was something unique and different from what Tolkien reintroduced into the popular conscience, but not really. These were vaettir that lived in the mountains and were very small and acted as craftsmen for god and man. There one added benefit is that, ritualistically, they probably had some tie to a death cult.
In addition to the above, there are a few more interesting myths about the Dvergar. For one, the Norse believed that they were created when the corpse of Ymir was made into the earth – they were the maggots eating his rotting corpse. In addition, there is at least one story saying that they fashioned Ask and Embla (the ash tree from which man was created).
All of these land spirits would have been venerated to some extent, though the term ‘veneration’ is a poor way to describe what the Germanic tribes actually did.
Not necessarily ‘holy men,’ but figures that were directed to lead the religious ceremonies of the community. The term here is ‘Godi/Gothi,’ literally meaning ‘god-man.’ An important thing to note here is that, since they saw the gods as their ancestors and their community as part of the community of the gods, there was little division between civil and religious authority. The godi was often the chieftain, or whatever civil authority there was at the time.
They didn’t communicate with the gods, at least not how we would view that process in a community that is, at least on some level, religiously Christian. So there was no real need for a priestly class.
That said, we know of two Germanic communities with strong religious bents.
There was one group, dedicating themselves to constant rites, which lived on the coast in Norway. I don’t remember their name off the top of my head, but there were accusations from the Christians of the time that they practiced orgiastic rites.
The second group was the Jomsvikings, or more properly, the residents of Jomsborg. They were dedicated to the service of the Aesir, built their own city and then inducted traveling warriors into one of the first religious fighting groups in history. They become a major force in history when they serve under Olaf Trygvason (a Christian) as a mercenary force, but betray him to his opponents after it becomes obvious that he is going to ban the old religion. They are eventually slaughtered to the man.
- Thread starter
- #6
Shockley
Maester
Yes. Your main rite is ‘the blood,’ which sounds less terrifying when you translate it into other languages. Essentially, a horse or pig would be sacrificed. The godi would collect the blood from the animal, then the animal itself. The animal was cooked, prepared and eaten by those in attendance. Then the blood was taken and smeared on the statues of the gods, the walls of the temple and the participants themselves.
Now, the blot would have been performed three times a year. This is the closest they would have had to holidays. There was one in mid-October, one in mid-April and one in mid-January. The one in mid-January was called ‘Jul,’ modern Yule, which sheds some light on why we have a Christmas ham (though I hope your parents never sprinkled you with its blood).
Interestingly enough, the Germanic peoples didn’t seem to care too much for the equinoxes. If you look at the dates provided above, the non-Jul blots happen about a month after each major equinox.
The Asatru Folk Assembly, which is the major Germanic Reconstructionist group in North America, has a nice calendar of holidays on their website.
It absolutely does, though we’re getting into literary analysis when we talk about a specific work like that. I can go over the myths and themes presented and talk about what historical events their referencing, though.
Yes sir.
shangrila
Inkling
Wow, thanks for the response. Very informative 
- Thread starter
- #8
Shockley
Maester
It was my pleasure.
