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Breaking rules

What exactly do you mean with action? It can be anything from characters simply doing stuff to a fight scene.

You most certainly want to have your characters doing stuff in your first chapter. A fight scene you have to be a bit more careful with, but that's because fight scenes tend to be not very interesting. Doesn't mean you can't do it. Just know what you're doing.

For a nice example of action in a first chapter, read Mistborn, by Sanderson. He starts with a fight. It works because the fight mainly happens off screen and instead he focusses on the emotions of the viewpoint character. You experience the fear and wonder of the character. That makes the reader care, not how someone punches someone else.

Note, this also goes for fight scenes in general. However, as with everything, it matters more in the first chapter because you have to capture the reader and draw them in. If someone's read 60k words, they tend to be a bit more forgiving.

Also, NOBODY likes prologues.
I like prologues...

Or rather, I like good prologues that have a place and a reason for existing.

I'd be willing to bet there was a point early in his career as a writer, when Tolkien was not that hot either.
If you want to feel better about your writing, read The Book of Lost Tales, which is compiled by Tolkien's son and contains some of his earliest writing. It's pretty terrible (though there are some great ideas in there). And that's coming from someone who loves Tolkien and his writing.

poor, frozen little Pluto
Complete tangent, but it's still a planet to me!
 

Malik

Auror
I do like that quote. Definitely can't see a full time career but I heard if your if your not inspired to try you never will so keep it up my friend
There is money to be made. I sell my ebooks at $9.99 and I keep 75 points on the back end; I've moved over 25,000 copies and half of them have been full price. Paid off my Lexus in a year.

. . . BUT . . .

Don't count on it. Individual results may vary.

I walked backwards into success, blinded, and completely by accident--I was at a local fantasy con demonstrating medieval combat and seoi-nage'd an SCA knight in full armor while wearing a sport jacket and tie. The next day, at my autograph signing, the line was literally out the door. I'd come into the signing late, having stopped to get a burger and figuring I might have two or three friends there. There were no shit over a hundred people waiting for my autograph. The local merchant had sold out of my book, and I ended up signing convention literature, pictures, even a girl's boobs.

Those reviews got me a BookBub, the Bestseller status from that got me a Publisher's Weekly review, which got me several favorable mainstream critical reviews, which led to Barnes and Noble catalog inclusion, which landed me far bigger convention appearances (WorldCon in Dublin!), foreign and audio rights deals, and so forth. I couldn't have planned it any better. There's a lot to be said for dumb luck, but YOU HAVE TO BE READY.

What I will say to every budding author is this: have people on speed-dial in case your book blows up. You have about 48 hours to capitalize on a groundswell. Find a publicist, a foreign and audio rights representative, and a good graphics person. Make their acquaintance; buy them a drink if they're local, get their bona fides, and have a few grand in reserve because you will need to pay them A LOT of money the minute shit happens. (You will get WAY more money back; this is a business and you have to spend money to make money.)

I know a lot of authors starting out don't have a lot of money but look at it this way: the average outlay for an entrepreneur in the U.S. is around $30,000 and you're expected to operate "in the red," i.e., losing money and taking out loans to cover your expenses, for the first 2-3 years. $5000 for a professionally produced novel (pro-level dev/line/copy/proof, non-AI cover, professional layout in all formats, business license, CPA, IP lawyer, plus an "emergency fund" in case everything somehow goes right and you need a publicist, graphic artist, etc.) is a steal.
 

Demesnedenoir

Myth Weaver
So true. I was NOT ready and was pretty much just having fun and kicking shit around to see what happened. Not that I've done poorly, mind you, but hindsight being 20/20, I could've blown things sky-high instead of just out of the water, LMAO.

When I eventually launch The War of Seven Lies in a couple years, it'll be with a publicist and a cash howitzer for promotion. 50/50 on whether I shop it with the Big 5.

There is money to be made. I sell my ebooks at $9.99 and I keep 75 points on the back end; I've moved over 25,000 copies and half of them have
been full price. Paid off my Lexus in a year.

. . . BUT . . .

Don't count on it. Individual results may vary.

I walked backwards into success, blinded, and completely by accident--I was at a local fantasy con demonstrating medieval combat and seoi-nage'd an SCA knight in full armor while wearing a sport jacket and tie. The next day, at my autograph signing, the line was literally out the door. I'd come into the signing late, having stopped to get a burger and figuring I might have two or three friends there. There were no shit over a hundred people waiting for my autograph. The local merchant had sold out of my book, and I ended up signing convention literature, pictures, even a girl's boobs.

Those reviews got me a BookBub, the Bestseller status from that got me a Publisher's Weekly review, which got me several favorable mainstream critical reviews, which led to Barnes and Noble catalog inclusion, which landed me far bigger convention appearances (WorldCon in Dublin!), foreign and audio rights deals, and so forth. I couldn't have planned it any better. There's a lot to be said for dumb luck, but YOU HAVE TO BE READY.

What I will say to every budding author is this: have people on speed-dial in case your book blows up. You have about 48 hours to capitalize on a groundswell. Find a publicist, a foreign and audio rights representative, and a good graphics person. Make their acquaintance; buy them a drink if they're local, get their bona fides, and have a few grand in reserve because you will need to pay them A LOT of money the minute shit happens. (You will get WAY more money back; this is a business and you have to spend money to make money.)

I know a lot of authors starting out don't have a lot of money but look at it this way: the average outlay for an entrepreneur in the U.S. is around $30,000 and you're expected to operate "in the red," i.e., losing money and taking out loans to cover your expenses, for the first 2-3 years. $5000 for a professionally produced novel (pro-level dev/line/copy/proof, non-AI cover, professional layout in all formats, business license, CPA, IP lawyer, plus an "emergency fund" in case everything somehow goes right and you need a publicist, graphic artist, etc.) is a steal.
 

Demesnedenoir

Myth Weaver
We'll have to agree to disagree on Tolkien's writing skills.

As for Tolkien prologues... It was a different era. GoT opened with a chapter-prologue. There are different species of prologue.

My editor pretty much demanded a prologue, and I gave her, well, something. One page of dialogue that sets the scene and connects straight into Chapter 10 with a character introduction. It seems to work for most folks, although I've readers contact me to let me know it disturbed whatever mental condition they have, heh heh.


He wasn't a writer. He was a linguist. He wrote the books as a way to ensconce the languages he'd created; a hell of a lot more fun to read than dictionaries in Dwarvish and Elvish. (Although it could be argued The Silmarillion is effectively that.) Tolkien was a terrible writer. Do not ape him. No one will read it.
 

JBCrowson

Inkling
Damn. Half an hour wasted. Hey, have fun.

Also, NOBODY likes prologues. Cheers.
I beg politely to disagree. First I like prologues, so even if I'm in a minority of one (again, sigh) that still negates 'nobody'.
Secondly, like everything else we put between or on the covers of our books, done well a prologue can enhance a work, done badly diminish it.

I also love in world chapter heading epigrams, and yes I might be on my own with that one as well.
 

JBCrowson

Inkling
If you want to feel better about your writing, read The Book of Lost Tales, which is compiled by Tolkien's son and contains some of his earliest writing. It's pretty terrible (though there are some great ideas in there). And that's coming from someone who loves Tolkien and his writing.
I agree, as I said to my son recently, after he'd waded through the Silmarillion, and asked about BoLT, there's a reason they were lost.
 

Incanus

Auror
Oh, man, I'd pay decent money to read someone trying to 'ape' Tolkien. I've never seen anyone try. But if someone could point to an example of it, I'd appreciate it. I'm talking prose style here, not stories that use his version of elves, etc.

I have my own quirky opinions, that's for sure. I think the two Book of Lost Tales books show Tolkien's early mastery of language. Just because it is written in a more advanced and difficult writing style--King James Bible--doesn't mean it was bad, just out of style by modern standards.
 

Incanus

Auror
Which makes Brooks and Tolkien quite similar.
Opinions vary, that's for sure.

In my view, Tolkien writes beautiful prose that has a gravitas that comes only from his lifelong study of language and his impeccable ear. This quality cannot be faked, or replicated by someone else.

I'd sure love to read someone's attempt at it though. As I said, I've never come across anyone even trying that before. It sure would be amusing.
 

Malik

Auror
Opinions vary, that's for sure.

In my view, Tolkien writes beautiful prose that has a gravitas that comes only from his lifelong study of language and his impeccable ear. This quality cannot be faked, or replicated by someone else.

I'd sure love to read someone's attempt at it though. As I said, I've never come across anyone even trying that before. It sure would be amusing.
It's not the prose. It's the pacing.
 

pmmg

Myth Weaver
Well...not Tolkien, but you might like the Eye of Argon, which is more like trying to copy Robert E Howard.

I am sure they don't write the same. But if I recall, SoS is pretty much a complete rip off of Tolkien. I may have it confused with Sword of Truth though. They both blend together for me.

I get the respect for Tolkien, but I find him hard to get through. He is like, the one writer I least want to emulate. Too wordy, and too much history.
 

Incanus

Auror
Yes, I was talking specifically about the prose. While LotR is one of my favorite reads, I see all kinds of weird little issues with it. The book is rather clunky in many places, no doubt.

For me, that gravitas is all the difference. Most books lack it.
 

Incanus

Auror
Sword of Shannara is absolutely a complete rip-off of LotR, story-wise. The quality was just much too low for me. I think I was about 13 when I picked it up, and by the end of page 1 I was deeply disappointed with it, though I read it anyway (there wasn't that much fantasy to choose from at the time).

I have no intention of emulating Tolkien (or anyone else), and think that's a pretty bad idea, mostly because whoever you are, you will fall short, probably by a lot.
 

Demesnedenoir

Myth Weaver
I have zero problems with Tolkien's pacing, and LoTR is one of the only books I'd ever read again that was not written by me, heh heh.

Brooks, on the other hand, is unreadable as an adult. I can't do it. Trying destroyed all my youthful memories of SoS. Now that I think about it, even when young, he lost me after SoS. The next one or two I bothered to read sucked.

I also find Rothfuss unreadable. I tried three times and surrendered.

Oh, the list could grow long, all the way from Mordor.
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
I do like that quote. Definitely can't see a full time career but I heard if your if your not inspired to try you never will so keep it up my friend
I can only speak for myself, but I write for a few different reasons. My mom was also a writer and I come from a long line of Irish writers, so the second I showed any inclination for storytelling, I got to be the heir apparent. I was writing her query letters by 12. I also have hypergraphia. I write because I can't not. And also, I love it. I don't understand what people who don't write think about all day. When our characters talk to me - now granted, I'm batshit crazy - I've got a couple different options to explain it, but mostly it's our characters telling me things about themselves and their stories.
So true. I was NOT ready and was pretty much just having fun and kicking shit around to see what happened. Not that I've done poorly, mind you, but hindsight being 20/20, I could've blown things sky-high instead of just out of the water, LMAO.

When I eventually launch The War of Seven Lies in a couple years, it'll be with a publicist and a cash howitzer for promotion. 50/50 on whether I shop it with the Big 5.
5? 4? I've totally lost track. Our next series is an epic fantasy trilogy, and we're shopping the crap out of it. Nowhere smaller than the big guns. I just know too many other authors who went small press and got so screwed. It's not that small press is littered with scum bags. It's littered with writers who want to be on the other side of the desk and have absolutely no clue what they're doing. But, they talk a good game, and so do we all because we tell lies for fun and profit. But no, they don't get to try out their training wheels here. And they can't afford the sort of advance I'm looking for. The Books of Binding needs an ad budget. 😆
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
I have zero problems with Tolkien's pacing, and LoTR is one of the only books I'd ever read again that was not written by me, heh heh.

Brooks, on the other hand, is unreadable as an adult. I can't do it. Trying destroyed all my youthful memories of SoS. Now that I think about it, even when young, he lost me after SoS. The next one or two I bothered to read sucked.

I also find Rothfuss unreadable. I tried three times and surrendered.

Oh, the list could grow long, all the way from Mordor.
I can't read Tolkien. I've read pretty much his entire body of academic work, because my research area butted up against his, but his prose kills me.
 
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