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Changing the MC's gender - questionable decision or am I overthinking?

Vafnir

Scribe
Hello to everyone, it's me again.

Quite a while ago I wrote about my first ever WIP and how I struggled writing it because of ideas I've already had for a sequel (in case a summary of the story would help: I have more/better ideas for the sequel than the main story. How to go about it? ). Thanks to your replies and some thinking over, I was able to continue with my first WIP. Now that I've made some progress, I'm taking another look at characters and want to change/adjust some things about them, such as Chlare and Rachel's names (the MC's love interest, at least later on).
One thing has been bothering me right from the beginning of writing this story; Bella's (the MC) gender.

Before I even started writing the first lines for this story, Bella was initially meant to be an intersex character. I can't say exactly why, it just felt right for this character. A little later, right before I actively started writing, I made Bella be a cis female, because I guess I didn't trust myself enough to write an intersex character properly. But the more I've been writing, the more I felt like I should go back to the idea of Bella being an intersex person.

In my life, I only ever talked to two intersex people, but never about them being intersex, let alone about me wanting to write a story with an intersex protagonist. I think my hesitation to write such a character comes from the fact that I've heard of authors getting negative responses for writing a character of a different gender than their own (mainly male/female authors writing female/male characters), more precisely for doing it poorly. In addition to that, there is a slight fear of falling into any cliches that there might be about intersex people. I don't want anyone who would read my story to feel uncomfortable for the wrong reasons.

Story-wise, it probably wouldn't have too much impact overall, since preeminently there is no stigmatization of gender and sexual orientation in Fjungard (my WIP's world - the name's a subject to change). Bella would still indetify mainly as female and would use she/her as pronouns. It might become more evident that Bella is an intersex person when it would come to intimate moments between Bella and Chlare, the love interest. And even then, I wouldn't write these scenes too explicitly, I just think I wouldn't be good at writing sex scenes. Also, I assume oversexualization is one of the easiest ways of misrepresentation. But not later than when the characters think retrospectively of their shared intimacy would it become more apparent that Bella is an intersex character.

Do you have any tips for writing such characters? Are there any cliches that come to your mind which should be avoided? Am I overthinking it? Have you ever changed your character's gender and if so, what were the reasons?

Also, I would like to apologize for my sometimes exhausting style of writing and if I used terms or expressions which seem offensive or are used incorrectly, but since English is not my first language, I'm trying my best to use respectful language and still make my point clear.
 
How much detail do you go into when you describe those intimate moments? Is there any reason to mention either character's genitalia?

If it's non-explicit--they kiss, they grope, then fade to black, next scene they're lying together afterward talking pillow talk, or not even that, they just wake up the next day and go about their business--then it's no different from an intimate scene that doesn't include an intersex character. You're not getting that explicit anyway.

The best sex scenes in literature rely heavily on the emotional side of it and give very little physical detail... just enough to understand what they're doing, the rest is left to the imagination. Here's an article on that by Diana Gabaldon, who's written the best sex scenes I've ever read:

HOW TO WRITE SEX SCENES | DianaGabaldon.com
 
Before I even started writing the first lines for this story, Bella was initially meant to be an intersex character. I can't say exactly why, it just felt right for this character. A little later, right before I actively started writing, I made Bella be a cis female, because I guess I didn't trust myself enough to write an intersex character properly. But the more I've been writing, the more I felt like I should go back to the idea of Bella being an intersex person.

I've run into something similar with one of the characters I'm working with, only in reverse: I did not set out to write an intersex character, and I'm still not certain if this character is intersex... I have no idea what biological sex they are. Intersex is a possibility, but it's just as possible that the character is male or female bodied. They just don't identify as male or female.

I started out writing the character as a man, but that didn't quite seem right. Then I tried writing the character as a woman. That didn't seem right either. I finally realized that they're nonbinary.

Out of that character who isn't exactly a man or a woman grew a whole segment of world building: the setting became a society in which a third gender is recognized. It's not as common as cis male and cis female, but common enough that third gender people have their own role and recognized place in society. They aren't considered weird or outcasts.

I haven't put this character in any sex scenes, though. Since they're a primary supporting character, not the main one, there's no reason I would describe a sex scene from their point of view, even if they got involved in one. And I suspect they might be some gradation of asexual, although I haven't really explored that.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
Story-wise, it probably wouldn't have too much impact overall, since preeminently there is no stigmatization of gender and sexual orientation in Fjungard (my WIP's world - the name's a subject to change). Bella would still indetify mainly as female and would use she/her as pronouns. It might become more evident that Bella is an intersex person when it would come to intimate moments between Bella and Chlare, the love interest. And even then, I wouldn't write these scenes too explicitly, I just think I wouldn't be good at writing sex scenes. Also, I assume oversexualization is one of the easiest ways of misrepresentation. But not later than when the characters think retrospectively of their shared intimacy would it become more apparent that Bella is an intersex character.

I don't know what you should do. But this paragraph makes me think you're approaching this wrong. It's not about the plot, or the sex scenes. It's not a little background detail you can just slip in once or twice and then dump some talking points on it, not when it's the MC. It's about the little details, and the tidbits of emotion, scattered here and there throughout the story, that make the character.

Just for example, she meets someone attractive. At what point does she start to wonder about how that person will view her? Right away? When they start talking? When things get serious? Or has she internalized it so much that it's in her posture, and gestures, and not at all in her thoughts? Or does she have some other way of framing this very common situation altogether? What does she tell herself about the whole thing? I don't know these things. I would want a clear idea of them before writing an intersex character. I would want to capture all of that in a way that was true to the character.
 

Vafnir

Scribe
How much detail do you go into when you describe those intimate moments? Is there any reason to mention either character's genitalia?

If it's non-explicit--they kiss, they grope, then fade to black, next scene they're lying together afterward talking pillow talk, or not even that, they just wake up the next day and go about their business--then it's no different from an intimate scene that doesn't include an intersex character. You're not getting that explicit anyway.

The best sex scenes in literature rely heavily on the emotional side of it and give very little physical detail... just enough to understand what they're doing, the rest is left to the imagination. Here's an article on that by Diana Gabaldon, who's written the best sex scenes I've ever read:

HOW TO WRITE SEX SCENES | DianaGabaldon.com

There is no reason for it and there will be no mention of genitalia, at least as of now. Since these two characters are mainly driven by their emotions, it wouldn't be any different when it comes to sex scenes. It's exactly the so-callled "pillow talk" the next day where it might become obvious but doesn't have to because, like you said, it is not that different without an intersex character. There might be slight differences, but don't have to be.
Also, thanks for the article, I'm going to read it today!

I've run into something similar with one of the characters I'm working with, only in reverse: I did not set out to write an intersex character, and I'm still not certain if this character is intersex... I have no idea what biological sex they are. Intersex is a possibility, but it's just as possible that the character is male or female bodied. They just don't identify as male or female.

I started out writing the character as a man, but that didn't quite seem right. Then I tried writing the character as a woman. That didn't seem right either. I finally realized that they're nonbinary.

Out of that character who isn't exactly a man or a woman grew a whole segment of world building: the setting became a society in which a third gender is recognized. It's not as common as cis male and cis female, but common enough that third gender people have their own role and recognized place in society. They aren't considered weird or outcasts.

I haven't put this character in any sex scenes, though. Since they're a primary supporting character, not the main one, there's no reason I would describe a sex scene from their point of view, even if they got involved in one. And I suspect they might be some gradation of asexual, although I haven't really explored that.

It sounds quite a lot like my setting, where the third gender is recognized by society and completely equal to cis-male and cis-female, despite the latter two being more common. It's also interesting to see that there are more people struggling with the gender of their characters, but since it's a supporting character in your case, it's somewhat easier to find a way to go about it, which is the point you're making here, right?
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
I'm hearing a lot of "I assume" and "I think." What I need to hear is, "I know," and "I've been told by people living intersex." Do your homework. There are as many intersex people as there are redheads. Start here, read everything you can to become well-grounded in writing beyond the common narrative, and then take a look back over your questions and see what you can now answer. There are also books and documentaries you can access.

Writing With Color — Braving Diversity: Intro Post (tumblr.com)
 

Vafnir

Scribe
I don't know what you should do. But this paragraph makes me think you're approaching this wrong. It's not about the plot, or the sex scenes. It's not a little background detail you can just slip in once or twice and then dump some talking points on it, not when it's the MC. It's about the little details, and the tidbits of emotion, scattered here and there throughout the story, that make the character.

Just for example, she meets someone attractive. At what point does she start to wonder about how that person will view her? Right away? When they start talking? When things get serious? Or has she internalized it so much that it's in her posture, and gestures, and not at all in her thoughts? Or does she have some other way of framing this very common situation altogether? What does she tell herself about the whole thing? I don't know these things. I would want a clear idea of them before writing an intersex character. I would want to capture all of that in a way that was true to the character.

I think you might be right, maybe I'm approaching it wrong. In the end, the MC's gender will probably have little to no impact on her emotions and behaviour, at least not necessarily? Is that what you're saying or do I understand it incorrenctly?

Hm, these are some good questions that make me think. The MC is not exactly someone who thinks of people being attractive or not, she simply doesn't care, primarily. So I would say she wonders about how that person she starts to find attractive will view her when things get serious, The MC is in the process of realizing that what she feels for her love interest is different from what she, for example, feels for her good friend who is more of a guardian to her. The MC and the lvoe interest already have a different connection due to the fact that their lives depend on each other (their soul are bound by a so-called "forced contract), i.e if one dies, the other one dies, as well. Therefore, the MC also tries to find out for herself whether things between her and the love interest would be different if they weren't connected by the same curse.
Their relationship is in a growing process and it's kind of hard for me to summarize it sensibly in a few sentences, so my apologies if it doesn't answer your questions and correct me if I haven't answered them fully.


Thanks to your helpful replies, so far, I've come to the conclusion that, because of how I want to write the story, the scenes and the characters, I am overthinking the change of the MC's gender and should go with what feels true to the main character. I guess I've also thought of how readers would perceive an intersex character, on the one hand, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to write a story for people who have an issue with that, anyway.
 

Vafnir

Scribe
I'm hearing a lot of "I assume" and "I think." What I need to hear is, "I know," and "I've been told by people living intersex." Do your homework. There are as many intersex people as there are redheads. Start here, read everything you can to become well-grounded in writing beyond the common narrative, and then take a look back over your questions and see what you can now answer. There are also books and documentaries you can access.

Writing With Color — Braving Diversity: Intro Post (tumblr.com)

You are right on that, but my uncertainty doesn't come from me not doing my homework, but simply because I have no experience writing characters other than cis-male and cis-female, thus, I am specially careful about my approach. Maybe I'm putting myself under too much pressure and should just continuing writing how it feels right, for now. And then, as you said, take another look back over my questions and see whether I can answer them.
And thank you for the link too! It is indeed something I read once, but I should probably read it more than once when I'm so uncertain about my approach.
 
How does the culture your characters live in view intersex people?

Are they considered freaks? Is their existence denied? Are their genitals operated on at birth to make them look "normal"?

Or is being intersex treated as no big deal, just a thing that happens? Special, even?

Do they consider a person's gender to be determined by their genitalia? Or not?

Was Bella raised as a girl? A boy? Was she given a choice which gender to be?

How she'll see herself, and whether she'll worry about how people see her if/when they find out she's intersex, all depends on how her culture treats intersex.

Then, another question, and this might take some research: how is she intersex? The majority of intersex conditions are invisible. An intersex girl might never learn she's intersex, or might only find out when she doesn't menstruate, or tries to have piv sex and can't (one type of intersex condition, I forget what it's called, results in typical looking external female genitalia but there's no uterus and the vagina ends abruptly at a wall--it can't take the full length of a penis). There are also babies born with genitals that aren't clearly one or the other; it sounds like you're thinking of that kind of intersex.
 

Vafnir

Scribe
How does the culture your characters live in view intersex people?

Are they considered freaks? Is their existence denied? Are their genitals operated on at birth to make them look "normal"?

Or is being intersex treated as no big deal, just a thing that happens? Special, even?

Do they consider a person's gender to be determined by their genitalia? Or not?

Was Bella raised as a girl? A boy? Was she given a choice which gender to be?

How she'll see herself, and whether she'll worry about how people see her if/when they find out she's intersex, all depends on how her culture treats intersex.

Then, another question, and this might take some research: how is she intersex? The majority of intersex conditions are invisible. An intersex girl might never learn she's intersex, or might only find out when she doesn't menstruate, or tries to have piv sex and can't (one type of intersex condition, I forget what it's called, results in typical looking external female genitalia but there's no uterus and the vagina ends abruptly at a wall--it can't take the full length of a penis). There are also babies born with genitals that aren't clearly one or the other; it sounds like you're thinking of that kind of intersex.

I'll try to answer in a coherent text:
So, as I wrote in my initial post and in one of my replies to one of yours posts, intersex or even non-binary people are consindered as another existing gender, or in other words a third gender, as you called it. They aren't as common as cis-male and cis-female, but still nothing out of ordinary. Children in this culture are not raised as a girl or a boy specifically - a person's place in the world is mostly determined by aspects such as their origin, social status and, later on, skills, and even partly religion/beliefs, but not by their gender. Thus, for example, a cis-male character could be a ducal family's servant, fulfilling a role of a guardian or just taking care of their mansion, while a cis-female character could be taught a kind of swordsplay, which is a part of her ducal family's tradition.

As for the more biological side of things: During my research I've learned that there is a countless amount of intersex conditions, many of them not being visible, as you mentioned. In Bella's case, I tried to keep it quite simple: She has fully grown male genitalia, but not fully grown female genitalia, thus she doesn't menstruate and piv sex could be difficult for her (which wouldn't matter in my story anyway, because her love interest is Chlare, a cis-female).
However, as I mentioned in my posts, the description of physical traits could most likely be avoided. The only exception would be when Chlare talk to Bella about their intimate night next day and would want to go into much detail, but even that isn't a given. As you said, the pillow talk is mostly not that different between different genders.
 
I'll try to answer in a coherent text:
So, as I wrote in my initial post and in one of my replies to one of yours posts, intersex or even non-binary people are consindered as another existing gender, or in other words a third gender, as you called it.
So why, then, does Bella have a feminine name and feminine pronouns?

Are you defining intersex and non-binary as the same thing? Or does your world also have people who are non-binary gender but have decidedly male or female reproductive organs?

As for the more biological side of things: During my research I've learned that there is a countless amount of intersex conditions, many of them not being visible, as you mentioned. In Bella's case, I tried to keep it quite simple: She has fully grown male genitalia, but not fully grown female genitalia, thus she doesn't menstruate and piv sex could be difficult for her (which wouldn't matter in my story anyway, because her love interest is Chlare, a cis-female).
However, as I mentioned in my posts, the description of physical traits could most likely be avoided. The only exception would be when Chlare talk to Bella about their intimate night next day and would want to go into much detail, but even that isn't a given. As you said, the pillow talk is mostly not that different between different genders.
If Bella has fully developed male genitalia, could she get Chlare pregnant? Is that a concern? Would she and Chlare be thinking about how to prevent that?

That could be a way to work it in.

Has Chlare had sex with anyone else before Bella? Men? Women? If she's had sex with both, she might make some remark about how making love with Bella was similar to both at once.
 
Children in this culture are not raised as a girl or a boy specifically
That sounds like a society with no gender.

It's possible to raise boys and girls more or less equally: let them play with the same toys, dress in same or similar ways, do the same jobs, while still identifying them as boys or girls. The boy or girl part would be, what kind of name are they given? What pronouns are used for them?

If that isn't done--if even names and pronouns don't distinguish a boy from a girl--then it would be a non-gender culture. No one would be cisgender, because there would be no such thing as gender. Everyone would be non-binary, because there would be no binary.
 

Vafnir

Scribe
So why, then, does Bella have a feminine name and feminine pronouns?

Are you defining intersex and non-binary as the same thing? Or does your world also have people who are non-binary gender but have decidedly male or female reproductive organs?


If Bella has fully developed male genitalia, could she get Chlare pregnant? Is that a concern? Would she and Chlare be thinking about how to prevent that?

That could be a way to work it in.

Has Chlare had sex with anyone else before Bella? Men? Women? If she's had sex with both, she might make some remark about how making love with Bella was similar to both at once.

My world also has people who are non-binary gender with male/female reproductive organs, respectively. As of now, I don't have a specific character in my cast who is openly non-binary, but they do exist in my story's world, just as intersex people do. But intersex and non-binary are defined as two different things, but an intersex person can identify as non-binary.

Physically, Bella has fully developed male genitalia, but functionally, she cannot get Chlare pregnant and cannot get pregnant herself, and doesn't menstruate. However, she doesn't know that she can't get Chlare pregnant because she hasn't had much sex education at home, due to her parents being absent most of the time and not wanting her to visit a public school, and her closest relative being her uncle who takes care of her while her parents are not there. So, Bella and Chlare thinking of a way to prevent pregnancy would be quite a legitimate way to work it in, at least until they are taught otherwise. Bella is the first person Chlare is going to have sex with, and vice versa, also due to the fact that Chlare has spent the most part of her life in a different dimension mainly fighting a kind of monsters to stay alive. So both of them don't really have a comparison, although I grinned at the idea of Chlare making such a remark.

But dang, you're making a very good point there. I haven't thought a lot about how children are named in my story's world. It wouldn't be a big deal for cis-children, they'd be named according to their biological gender. As for children with intersex conditions, I can hardly think of anything off the top of my head. One idea would be giving the child several names, something like a first forename and a second forename (I myself, as an example, have two "first" names, although I don't use my second one too often). Then, when the child grows up, they would have the option to drop one of the names at some point in their life and keep the name they like or identify with more, based on their personal feelings and identity. I'd must take a look at how it owuld work with the rest of my world.

That sounds like a society with no gender.

It's possible to raise boys and girls more or less equally: let them play with the same toys, dress in same or similar ways, do the same jobs, while still identifying them as boys or girls. The boy or girl part would be, what kind of name are they given? What pronouns are used for them?

If that isn't done--if even names and pronouns don't distinguish a boy from a girl--then it would be a non-gender culture. No one would be cisgender, because there would be no such thing as gender. Everyone would be non-binary, because there would be no binary.

A society with no gender at all is not my intention. That is exactly what I meant by saying that boys and girls are raised equally or at least similarly: They start off playing with the same toys and wearing similar clothes, until they start developing preferences which shape them as their own person. And while children of cis-gender develop preferences in clothes, jobs, interests etc., intersex people would also develop a preference of gender identity, be it male, female, non-binary, something completely different or a mix of those. When it comes to pronouns, I'm trying to keep it simple with he/him, she/her and they/them. Intersex people would have the pronouns they/then, unless they express a clear preference or their gender is assumed, since it's still easier to assume that someone is male/female rather than intersex.

I hope the stuff I'm writing is making at least some kind of sense. It seems there are some things I haven't thought of thinking about, like the naming at birth.
Rosemary Tea I'd like to thank you for your Feedback, thoughts and patience with me, so far! Your replies have already been a huge help and let me shape the world around my characters a little bit more!
 
But dang, you're making a very good point there. I haven't thought a lot about how children are named in my story's world. It wouldn't be a big deal for cis-children, they'd be named according to their biological gender.
When would they be named? At birth? How would anyone know then whether or not they'll identify with their biological gender?

You apparently have the principle that sex and gender are not always the same thing worked into your world building. Well and good. But, if sex and gender are not the same thing, then we can't tell a baby's gender from its sex. Even if it's born with definitively male or female parts.
 

Vafnir

Scribe
When would they be named? At birth? How would anyone know then whether or not they'll identify with their biological gender?

You apparently have the principle that sex and gender are not always the same thing worked into your world building. Well and good. But, if sex and gender are not the same thing, then we can't tell a baby's gender from its sex. Even if it's born with definitively male or female parts.

You're absolutely right there, these are some questions that never occurred to me. Right now, I am taking my time to think of a way babies are named in my story's world, because apparently I haven't thought it through well enough. Instead of naming a baby at birth, a better solution would probably be some kind of a "naming" ceremony. Since there's already a coming of age ceremony, at least among ducal families, a naming ceremony wouldn't be a complete stretch.

It would seem to me that in such a world all names would be unisex.

At least it wasn't my intention when I started building my world. But now that you mention it, I like the idea of all names being unisex, I also believe it would be quite plausible for my story's world and its understanding of sex and gender. Thanks for the food for thought!
 
At least it wasn't my intention when I started building my world. But now that you mention it, I like the idea of all names being unisex, I also believe it would be quite plausible for my story's world and its understanding of sex and gender. Thanks for the food for thought!
So male characters could also be named Bella? Or other names that will register feminine with the readers?

You already have a character with a decidedly gendered name. Even if you say that in this culture, any name can belong to a person of any gender, readers will never fall for it. Even if they believe it intellectually, they'll still read Bella as female, Dan as male, Sarah as female, John as male....

(I'm not saying you have characters named Dan, Sarah, and John. If you don't, substitute other character names for those. Point is, there's no way you can divorce gender from a name in readers' minds when the association between name and gender is thoroughly entrenched.)

To convince readers that all names in this society are gender neutral, you would have to give all your characters gender neutral names. Either give them made up names, which will have no gender association for readers because they're not used in real life, or names that are used for both men/boys and women/girls in real life. Alex and Terry and Pat, you could get away with. Sasha, probably. Perhaps even Kelly or Dana. But Bella, no way.
 
There's a bunch more names which can be used for both genders, but it might get very confusing to the reader.

A different option could be to give people 2 versions of the same name at birth. So you'd be John / Johanna, or Dan / Daniella. Then, at some point you could chose one, or just keep both.
 

Vafnir

Scribe
To convince readers that all names in this society are gender neutral, you would have to give all your characters gender neutral names. Either give them made up names, which will have no gender association for readers because they're not used in real life, or names that are used for both men/boys and women/girls in real life. Alex and Terry and Pat, you could get away with. Sasha, probably. Perhaps even Kelly or Dana. But Bella, no way.

A different option could be to give people 2 versions of the same name at birth. So you'd be John / Johanna, or Dan / Daniella. Then, at some point you could chose one, or just keep both.

This is what I've been thinking about. Like, the parents would give their baby two versions of the same name at birth and then, at the naming ceremony, the growing up child would have the liberty to choose the name it identifies more. It might be tricky with some names, but it's doable for sure.
Right now, the more replies I've received here, the more it has become clear to me that my naming concept is messed up. And these ideas would be one way to fix it, at least partially.
 
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