Complex character traits.

[Arielcat]

That list is odd. Some of the items listed are emphatically not jobs. For example, slave.

Nor smuggler or thief. Sure, they might get hired to do a job, but no one is going to employ them full time. It's not like I'm going to open a smuggling shop. And "prophet" really made me giggle.

The one area where I constantly argue, both with various books and with myself, is the thief and the assassin. Thievery is a crime, but it's not a job. It's not like a young person might consider becoming a doctor or a mercenary or ... oh I know, a bandit! I'm sure there are plenty of people in need of a bandit for hire.

But then, the whole notion of thief as a profession, and of same being organized into thief guilds, has become widely accepted. It's a solid part of fantasy literature, so there's no point in me objecting. That's fine. I don't let them into my stories, but I'll allow them in others. It's not like they're as bad as sparkling vampires. <grin>

"Prophet" is a job now? ^____^
Elisha and Elijah will probably be especially happy to hear that one.
And several other people as well.
(Do quit your day job, please. You can just be a prophet from now on. )
"Bandit for hire" is also a good one.
(There are, of course, soldiers for hire, and also, assassins for hire.)
And I think I would say that "indentured servant" is a job, but "slave" isn't.
(Even if some people do think that they are the same thing. )

 

[Arielcat]

Its missing knight and peasant.

I know, but it said up at the top "that aren't knight and peasant".
It's purposely leaving out the two most popular ones, presumably because they are too popular.
Just noticed that a moment ago, actually.

 

[pmmg]

I know, but it said up at the top "that aren't knight and peasant".
It's purposely leaving out the two most popular ones, presumably because they are too popular.
Just noticed that a moment ago, actually.

 

[ThinkerX]

Complex characters....

POV characters from my 'Empire' series...

Tia - young lady from a wealthy mercantile family. Sent to the University of Solace to be educated in languages, law, and finance, then given a list of prospective nobles who might be willing to marry a commoner. Initially, Tia s ambivalent about Peter and contemptuous towards Kyle (though she deems his magic useful).

Rebecca - One of the few survivors of a gypsy clan enslaved for theft. Trained as a minstrel. Knows a few of the potent and highly dangerous 'Old Songs.' Expert in cosmetics and fashion. Tia's maid and female confident. Friendly towards the others, but with reservations.

Sir Peter Cortez. Yes, he's a knight. His knightly education was cut short by an invasion, and by the time the story starts he's about one notch above 'mercenary.' Put's Tia on a pedestal, suspicious of but tolerates Rebecca, see's Kyle as fairly typical veteran, apart from his magic.

Kyle - began as a peasant, grandson of the village witch. Pressed into the legions, served several years before his superiors realized he had a modicum if magical ability. Received rudimentary training in sorcery, then got dropped into one bloody mess after another leaving him an alcoholic suffering from what we'd call PTSD. Signed on as Tia's carriage driver. Kyle doesn't care much for Tia, is ambivalent to Rebecca, has respect for Peter.

Their pasts contributed to their complexity.

 

[skip.knox]

I'd argue assassin isn't a job. It's just someone who kills people. I don't see anyone suggesting "murderer" is a job.

Sure, gangster have muscle, but even then, the muscle isn't an employee. They're part of the gang. The boss helps them and protects them as needed, but that's a far cry from the regular paycheck of a grocery clerk. They're more like the retainers of a medieval nobleman's mesnie (roughly, his boys, his gang).

An assassin is a very particular thing, historically. I have a hard time getting past the historical aspect, but even at that, I can't envision any noble or wealthy merchant who would keep a killer on retainer, providing them enough income to live even when they weren't doing any killing. Still less can I see a society in which there was enough murdering going around to warrant guilds and schools and a whole tier of employment along those lines. There wouldn't be enough nobles (because who assassinates woodcutters and shepherds?) left to do the hiring.

Now, a noble who was skilled at killing, who chose maybe to do his killing in secret, on the down low, I can buy that. He's not making money at it (who makes money at assassination?), but he's eliminating enemies. Maybe even doing a favor or two for friends. But he's got his own income, from his estates. Sort of a Scarlet Pimpernel or Zorro figure. I'll buy that.

That said, we're talking fantasy fiction here. Assassin guilds proliferate, so I go with it. I just grumble sometimes, out on the back porch.

 

[Arielcat]

Bounty hunter is a job, and assassin for hire is presumably a job.
I didn't say that being an assassin was necessarily a job otherwise.
And it isn't, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Arielcat]

Anybody who thinks "murderer" is a job, has a definite problem.
"Dark wizard" could maybe be a job.
Of sorts.
I've lately seen online how to be careful when using death spells.
They meant it, and they didn't just mean, be careful not to use such, either.
I wondered a bit has J.K. Rowling seen that.
Because it was getting a bit too "avada cadaver" for my taste.
Those exact words were not actually mentioned, however.
Some people act creepy in real life.
It's usually exactly where the ideas about the fictional dark magic come from.
(Not that any of this actually *works* in real life or not very much anyway. I assume. Or, in some cases, rather I hope, actually.)

 

[pmmg]

Look assassin. You cant kill me. If you do you’ll be out of a job and you know the job market these days…

 

[Arielcat]

Look assassin. You cant kill me. If you do you’ll be out of a job and you know the job market these days…

I'd definitely recommend against the assassin killing whoever hired him or her.
That would indeed be kind of stupid and pointless and idiotic.
Similar in some ways to, let's just say, cutting off your nose to spite your face.
(Dumb idea, or at least, generally seen as such. )

 

[FifthView]

The original post's selection of traits is very odd to me. It is like taking a slice in time and describing a character entirely out of context.

She might have a favorite color.
She might dress in her favorite color.

Why is it her favorite color? Why does she dress in this color?

She might be a part of a cult.

Again, why? How did she get there? Accidentally? On purpose? As a natural unfolding of her ambition?

And so forth.

Let me put this another way. Suppose you want to set me up on a blind date, and you describe the person I'm going to meet in this way.

"He likes the color blue! He dresses in blue a lot!"

My gosh, that's boring. It tells me almost nothing about him.

"He hates the fact that his eyes are brown instead of blue."

—I'm thinking, he's neurotic. No thank you.

I suppose my point will run alongside the point others have made. An interesting history, a set of raisons d'être, for all these traits, and/or consequences, will make for a more interesting character.

In the end though, I think I'd prefer a complicated character to a complex character. Just throwing a lot of miscellaneous info out there might make the character seem complex, but it's actually just boring miscellany. Tie it all together in an interesting personal history, complicated psychology, and so forth, and the character becomes more interesting.

(However, I will say I do like rather simple characters, also.)

 

[Arielcat]

The original post's selection of traits is very odd to me. It is like taking a slice in time and describing a character entirely out of context.



Why is it her favorite color? Why does she dress in this color?


Again, why? How did she get there? Accidentally? On purpose? As a natural unfolding of her ambition?

And so forth.

Let me put this another way. Suppose you want to set me up on a blind date, and you describe the person I'm going to meet in this way.

"He likes the color blue! He dresses in blue a lot!"

My gosh, that's boring. It tells me almost nothing about him.

"He hates the fact that his eyes are brown instead of blue."

—I'm thinking, he's neurotic. No thank you.

I suppose my point will run alongside the point others have made. An interesting history, a set of raisons d'être, for all these traits, and/or consequences, will make for a more interesting character.

In the end though, I think I'd prefer a complicated character to a complex character. Just throwing a lot of miscellaneous info out there might make the character seem complex, but it's actually just boring miscellany. Tie it all together in an interesting personal history, complicated psychology, and so forth, and the character becomes more interesting.

(However, I will say I do like rather simple characters, also.)

I sort of noticed similar things but I didn't know if I should say them, so I didn't.
In the long run, though, I think it's best that they be said.
I do have girl characters who (sometimes) dress in blue to match their eyes, but in most cases it's actually not their favorite color and it's not the only color they ever wear, either.
(Just saying.)

 

[Arielcat]

She loves cats, unicorns and dragons, is probably going tell you more about her than what colors she dresses in.
She loves reading and writing could tell you even more about her.
I often envision characters liking to dress in a particular color or colors, but it's not necessarily at the top of my list when describing them.
If we were talking for example about actual people, I could tell you that my dad often wears brown and has brown eyes while my mom often wears blue and has blue eyes.
This is an interesting side note, but tells you very little about them.
To me it somehow sounds more like, if you saw them in a crowd then how would you recognize them.

 

[Arielcat]

Agatha Christie once wrote that she still knew what colors would best suit the schoolgirls she used to imagine when she was a girl.
Yes. I do that sort of thing too.
I think many writers do.
But it's generally better as background information than as an actual description of the characters.
It can also fall under the heading of, what sorts of things only the writers should know.
Every reader doesn't necessarily have to know every single thing that the writer knows.
Some writers don't always even tell you what their characters dress in or look like.
Figure it out for yourself.

 

[Arielcat]

Get to know things about your character(s) as you go along.
Don't just make things up or ask others to make things up.
Is my advice, anyway.
How do we know that she likes blue, dresses in blue, has a green-eyed black cat and/or a blue-eyed white cat, etc.
Don't just throw all that information out there at us.
Help us know why, and also, why do we need to know.
It's more fun that way, and more interesting, entertaining and informative that way, too.
Not just trivia.

 

[Finchbearer]

ChatGPT offered me this for a complex description example for the OP character:

Elora is a woman with striking blonde hair that falls in loose waves down to her waist. She is of elven descent, with sharp features and a lithe frame. Her name was chosen to reflect her mystical aura and ethereal nature.

Elora has a deep passion for the color green, which she often incorporates into her clothing choices. She has a knack for dressing in a way that is both practical and fashionable, and she takes pride in her appearance. She is part of a secretive cult that values nature and its mysteries above all else, which has shaped her beliefs and way of life.

Despite her affiliation with the cult, Elora is a noblewoman who values honesty and justice. She despises dishonesty and goes out of her way to help others when she can. She also has a mischievous streak and a sharp wit, making her an engaging and intriguing person to be around.

Elora works as a bookseller, a job that suits her love of literature and allows her to meet many interesting people. She enjoys nothing more than curling up with a good book or writing her own stories, finding solace and inspiration in the written word.

Elora is the proud owner of a sleek black cat named Shadow, whom she adores and spoils. She has a small group of close friends who share her interests and values, including some fellow members of the cult. But Elora also has connections with the seedy underbelly of society, as she is a skilled thief who occasionally works with a group of fellow thieves.

Overall, Elora is a complex character with many layers, blending her love of nature, books, and thievery into a unique and fascinating personality.

 

[Arielcat]

ChatGPT offered me this for a complex description example for the OP character:

Elora is a woman with striking blonde hair that falls in loose waves down to her waist. She is of elven descent, with sharp features and a lithe frame. Her name was chosen to reflect her mystical aura and ethereal nature.

Elora has a deep passion for the color green, which she often incorporates into her clothing choices. She has a knack for dressing in a way that is both practical and fashionable, and she takes pride in her appearance. She is part of a secretive cult that values nature and its mysteries above all else, which has shaped her beliefs and way of life.

Despite her affiliation with the cult, Elora is a noblewoman who values honesty and justice. She despises dishonesty and goes out of her way to help others when she can. She also has a mischievous streak and a sharp wit, making her an engaging and intriguing person to be around.

Elora works as a bookseller, a job that suits her love of literature and allows her to meet many interesting people. She enjoys nothing more than curling up with a good book or writing her own stories, finding solace and inspiration in the written word.

Elora is the proud owner of a sleek black cat named Shadow, whom she adores and spoils. She has a small group of close friends who share her interests and values, including some fellow members of the cult. But Elora also has connections with the seedy underbelly of society, as she is a skilled thief who occasionally works with a group of fellow thieves.

Overall, Elora is a complex character with many layers, blending her love of nature, books, and thievery into a unique and fascinating personality.

This is an example of a slightly complex description of an interesting, detailed and layered character.
You did not say that you wanted this done.
I could have done a similar thing for you, or, you could have done one yourself unless you are not used to doing such things at all.
It's usually better, I think, if writers do their own descriptions of their own characters, certainly I'd prefer to, but in your own case of course you should do whatever you like or whatever you see fit.
I like the part about blending her love of nature, books and thievery.

 

[pmmg]

Who doesn’t want a woman with a love for nature, books and thievery?

 

[Arielcat]

Who doesn’t want a woman with a love for nature, books and thievery?

Exactly.

 

[pmmg]

Hey. I think you stole those trees.

 

[Finchbearer]

This is an example of a slightly complex description of an interesting, detailed and layered character.
You did not say that you wanted this done.
I could have done a similar thing for you, or, you could have done one yourself unless you are not used to doing such things at all.
It's usually better, I think, if writers do their own descriptions of their own characters, certainly I'd prefer to, but in your own case of course you should do whatever you like or whatever you see fit.
I like the part about blending her love of nature, books and thievery.

I’m not the OP. ChatGPT gives pretty generic responses but it’s still interesting to see what it would come up with in terms what this AI model sees as a complex description. It has a heavy bias - so that’s it’s major flaw.