Ianto
Minstrel
Welcome to the dark side!
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Computer voiced narration
- Thread starter skip.knox
- Start date
Welcome to the dark side!
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
- Thread starter
- #63
There's always a darker side than the one you are on -- it's your shadow. Hm. The Dark Side Shadow. or Shadow of the Dark Side. It's a shame Star Wars has pretty much drained that phrase.
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
I could ramble about absolute zero and absolute dark, and if being darkest requires nonexistence, and therefore being unable to cast a shadow, being darkest, but my words would lose all lucidity. Heh heh.
Ianto
Minstrel
My partner has just bought an amp to replace our thirty-five year old one. The main thing being we can now use the turntable again. In celebration, she bought a vinyl copy of "The Dark Side of the `Moon". Of course, the 'Dark Side' of the moon doesn't exist. It's the "Unseen Side".
Ianto
Minstrel
I read a lesser known science fiction book where people from earth landed on the "dark side" of the moon, encountering a relatively advanced civilisation of monkey like creatures who refused to believe the Earth existed, because they had never seen it. Their theory of the solar system included a "great dark attractor" similar to Dark Matter explaining the way the moon orbited the Sun. It was a very interesting idea. Unfortunately the rest of the book didn't live up to it, but it was a quite striking idea.
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
Ianto
Minstrel
She makes up for my poor taste in music. Music nights can be pretty one sided - "nah, you put the next one on. I don't mind."
Jackarandajam
Maester
Did anyone ever see the flick about the Darkside of the moon being populated by dinosaur-riding Nazis?
I've only ever seen the preview.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
I think that movie was called Iron Sky. I may have seen it. I dont recall. I have no memory of Dino-riding Nazi's. I think, more likely not. I probably did not because if I do, Netflix fills up my queue with Nazi stuff, like...oh, I see you are interested, and...I am not. I am ready to never see or hear the word Nazi again.
Ianto
Minstrel
Lord, just put up a post on a couple of narrators' sites, saying that most indy authors don't have the money to pay for human narration if a decent PFH rate is charged, and that the fact that that is driving people to AI is something to consider, when looking at the situation as a whole. Not that people "should" take lower rates or purely Royalty Share arrangements for things they know won't sell well, but that those who do could be seen as keeping AI at bay with a lot of authors ["perhaps like King Canute, but they are giving it a go".]
Interesting reactions.
From the "group leaders", self described "pros", "voice coaches" et al (normally wannabe or failed actors, who are always going on about "SAG-AFTRA MINIMUMS!!!" even to people who aren't in America), you would have thought they had caught me fucking their chihuahuas. Paragraph after paragraph about how what I said was stupid, awful, even implying a betrayal on my part "now the fire is coming from the INSIDE".
But from many others, a few quiet words of agreement, or, more commonly, no reply and a like.
It's what I've noticed. The loudest ones are the ex/wannabe actor types who go on about "We are worth it! Cream rises to the top! SAG-AFTRA MINIMUM!!! We aren't a charity!" [Well, authors aren't a charity either. "But *I* am *WORTH IT*! *I* am *SPECIAL*!!" (That last quote isn't a real quote, as you might have guessed. It's more reading between the lines. The others are, though, including the capitals.)
Whereas there are plenty of other narrators who aren't such drama queens.
But in discussions of such things, the voices of the former can drown out the latter, giving a skewed impression of what narrators are available at certain prices and arrangements.
Interesting reactions.
From the "group leaders", self described "pros", "voice coaches" et al (normally wannabe or failed actors, who are always going on about "SAG-AFTRA MINIMUMS!!!" even to people who aren't in America), you would have thought they had caught me fucking their chihuahuas. Paragraph after paragraph about how what I said was stupid, awful, even implying a betrayal on my part "now the fire is coming from the INSIDE".
But from many others, a few quiet words of agreement, or, more commonly, no reply and a like.
It's what I've noticed. The loudest ones are the ex/wannabe actor types who go on about "We are worth it! Cream rises to the top! SAG-AFTRA MINIMUM!!! We aren't a charity!" [Well, authors aren't a charity either. "But *I* am *WORTH IT*! *I* am *SPECIAL*!!" (That last quote isn't a real quote, as you might have guessed. It's more reading between the lines. The others are, though, including the capitals.)
Whereas there are plenty of other narrators who aren't such drama queens.
But in discussions of such things, the voices of the former can drown out the latter, giving a skewed impression of what narrators are available at certain prices and arrangements.
Ianto
Minstrel
Just had the first long and detiled response from someone who agreed with me, which is nice. "I've had thoughts similar to yours. I take less than SAG minimums. I work with all self published authors. I make a decent audio product and I give my best performance. And guess what? I haven't auditioned in over a year and I still have consistent work. I get that this is the sole income for many people, and to make less than 300 pfh is not worth their time. But if you accept a little less and develop a relationship that leads to multiple books, isn't that worth it?" They are out there people. Please give them a thought before thinking you have to turn to AI.
Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
It's an ugly situation for Indie authors either way. AI and self-narration are the escape mechanisms available. The 50/50 Share doesn't make sense for an author unless the author spends $0 on advertising. A more typical situation is that the writer writes the book, pays for every bit of editing, cover, etc., and can easily drop 10k or more into advertising so that someone who narrates makes 50% on a sale. It also isn't necessarily fair to a narrator, who spends lots of hours working on a book, to have an author NOT promote the book.
Like most systems, it's heavily flawed for both sides. More often than not, both turn out losers, I suspect.
Like most systems, it's heavily flawed for both sides. More often than not, both turn out losers, I suspect.
Ianto
Minstrel
Sorry, but... I mean, my whole two last posts were saying that narrators *will work for less than the amounts normally mentioned*, meaning that AI and self-narration are *not* the only escape mechanisms available. I mean, that was my *entire point*. I thought I might be actually belabouring it a bit! If you don't want to do it through Royalty share (which *does* make *absolute* sense for *many* authors. This *does not* mean that it should make sense for your wants/needs/plans. I don't know of any authors who regularly sell 'a lot' of copies who do it by Royalty share. It's an *offer*, an *option*, and not the only option, but one which many people take up) and don't want to pay "X" fixed amount because "X" is too high, there are many narrators who will do it for "Y", where Y<X, down to free. (I'm not the only narrator on those sites who has mentioned doing it for free for books we liked.) But it may be any figure between 0 and Y.
Thus no, even by what you say, I can not see that you are left *automatically* with AI or self-narration as being the only ones. You have to see *if* there is a narrator who will do it for the amount you find acceptable, and has a voice you find acceptable before you can say that.
As I say, that was my entire point, and you seemed to be saying "either way" that it was between a high basic amount or royalty share, when my entire point was that it is *not* between those two things! So sorry if I am coming across as repeating myself or trying to hammer it home excessively here.
If anyone wants to do that, that is fucking marvellous. Wonderful.
And if anybody wants to do that, and wants *any* advice on what would be needed or advisable. How to do it. Or how to pass the specifications required by Audible, I for one would be *fucking delighted* to give people advice or help on this matter. [It's absolutely possible to set up a decent recording area at home if you know what you are doing.]
Because that would be showing your writing a hell of a lot more respect than handing it over to AI.
Thus no, even by what you say, I can not see that you are left *automatically* with AI or self-narration as being the only ones. You have to see *if* there is a narrator who will do it for the amount you find acceptable, and has a voice you find acceptable before you can say that.
As I say, that was my entire point, and you seemed to be saying "either way" that it was between a high basic amount or royalty share, when my entire point was that it is *not* between those two things! So sorry if I am coming across as repeating myself or trying to hammer it home excessively here.
However, this is the first time I can see that self-narration (without suggesting using your own voice through AI) has been brought up.
If anyone wants to do that, that is fucking marvellous. Wonderful.
And if anybody wants to do that, and wants *any* advice on what would be needed or advisable. How to do it. Or how to pass the specifications required by Audible, I for one would be *fucking delighted* to give people advice or help on this matter. [It's absolutely possible to set up a decent recording area at home if you know what you are doing.]
Because that would be showing your writing a hell of a lot more respect than handing it over to AI.
pmmg
Myth Weaver
The free market will take care of this.
Proof is in the pudding.
If that's your point, you need to stop there and not go on to talking about royalty share.
I am sure they are out there, but I personally don't have the connections (at present) to find them. Price and convenience are both at play. AI is competing on both. It will be hard to beat. My heart goes out to those who love this craft, and I much prefer actual human's....but unlike the book, John Henry does not always beat the machine. I think this will get harder, and the adjustment period will have many casualties before its over.
Personally, if I was paying a person to do it (and that is the route I would go), I would want to know they are getting fairly paid. I am not sure what that would be though. But, I think I'd just get a gut feeling when I knew it was too high or too low.
Where did you bump elbows with other voice narrators?
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Demesnedenoir
Myth Weaver
Those are the escape mechanisms for paying and profit share. Pretty simple.
Ianto
Minstrel
I was reacting to someone saying that 50/50 share didn't make sense for an author.
You don't need connections, simply inclination to look for them through the normal channels.
Yeah, plenty of people read shit which can/will be be AI written, and listen to shit AI voices. People have always read shit, and listened to shit. But I find it inexplicable when good authors seemingly insist on AI when it is *easy* to find narrators who will do it for less than what is normally talked about.
I wouldn't call it a "craft" - that sounds like something an actor would say. It's simply telling a story. Which was done millennia and more before acting became a thing.
Would you? Because I've done it for free, and I've done it for pay, and I've done it for royalty share. I didn't have a magical gut feeling about the amount which was low, high or spot on. I've done so many different jobs where different hours and effort and skill resulted in payment levels not seemingly related to them.
Well the proof of the pudding is in the eating, certainly.
Plenty of different groups online with many, many, many members.
In trying to stress the availability of cheap, decent narrators, I can't help thinking I would have encountered more enthusiasm on the part of authors. (Not just here, I'm not casting nasturtiums, but it seems everywhere I talk about this to authors who want to produce audiobooks there is- I don't know. A sort of suspicion about the matter, even about why I am doing it, which I find it completely inexplicable - but then I find a lot of things in this universe inexplicable!
Maybe I should just stop there, and take advantage of the fact I can do my own stuff rather than trying to - with no advantage to myself - try to point out to other authors they can get it done cheaper than they think. It's certainly an uphill struggle!
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