Corrupting your hero?

[Ireth]

How does one go about doing that while still keeping them a hero?

I'm thinking specifically of the protagonist of my vampire story Low Road. The protagonist, Olan, is a newly turned vampire who abhors the thought of drinking human blood. This abhorrence grows stronger when he goes to the underground vampire city ruled by the lords Conall and Luthais, and sees the depths of insanity and depravity to which vampires can fall if they drink human blood continuously and without remorse. Olan is compelled to feed from a human as the rest of the vampires (save only a few) do, and he resists temptation with help from Luthais, who is also very against human blood consumption, but nigh powerless to stop Conall imposing it on their people. That's how it goes in the first draft, at least.

For the second draft, I was thinking of taking away some of Olan's innocence and having him willingly feed from a human being. The circumstances of that are being worked out in my head still, but I want it to be so that Olan is legitimately at fault and does what he does for the wrong reasons -- no mercy-killing a dying stranger or anything like that. Depending on the situation, he might not feel remorse: if he's avenging the death or harm of a close friend, for example, he probably wouldn't bat an eyelid. My trouble is keeping him a likable, heroic character after he does something despicable, and perhaps giving him a chance for redemption. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Phin Scardaw]

I'd say that he gets overwhelmed by his desire. This is often what leads people to do most of the things he regrets, like commit adultery for example.

If he's newly converted, it's likely that he won't be able to control himself at all when the overpowering urge takes him. This is the truly monstrous part of the curse - he behaves monstrously but still feels remorse.

Later, he would be able to learn how to control himself probably. Remember that most heroes start out weak and that's fine. As long as he tries at least to resist your readers will sympathize with him.

 

[Ireth]

Fair point. But I want it to happen later on in the novel, after he's been a vampire for a couple of years, not in the first chapter when he first arises from the grave, or even as he travels to Eilean Donan from Edinburgh. That's the reason the first creature I had him encounter was a dog instead of, say, his father. It'll be hard to pull off while he's isolated in the castle with only a ghost and another vampire for company -- the other vampire knows the consequences of drinking human blood only too well, and will advise the protagonist firmly against it. They'll be careful to hunt where there's little risk of being intercepted by humans.

*ponders* There's a scene close to the climax where the protagonist comes very close to biting someone, but doesn't actually do it. I could very easily have him actually bite the person, but then that would potentially alter the dynamic of the rest of the buildup to the climax, assuming nobody catches him in the act and kills him on sight. :/ Hm.

 

[Steerpike]

I think you can make it work, Ireth. Stick with your conception. If you change it so that it happens earlier, or that it is a result of the compulsion of his urges rather than a willing act, you will have quite a different character and story than what you are planning for the second draft. There is no reason to give it a shot and see how it works out. I am always of the opinion that one should write the story one is envisioning and not be swayed into writing a different story. Once you've done the second draft you can evaluate how effective your work with the character has been and go from there.

 

[Shockley]

I think the easiest thing for you to do would be to have him attracted to the blood but repulsed by the idea of it. Have it established up-front that, no matter how repulsed he is on an intellectual level by the thought of drinking human blood, it is something he has an urge to do.

 

[Steerpike]

I think the easiest thing for you to do would be to have him attracted to the blood but repulsed by the idea of it. Have it established up-front that, no matter how repulsed he is on an intellectual level by the thought of drinking human blood, it is something he has an urge to do.

Again this ends up being a different story, and ultimately a different character, than Ireth's stated intention. It is like I said I wanted chocolate chip ice cream but couldn't decide on a topping, and in response to my request for help in choosing a topping someone said what I should really do is get butter pecan. OK, butter pecan is their flavor, not mine.

The original post stated this would be a willing act. All the suggestions telling the writer to resort to a compelling urge or blood lust negate that will. It is a different story with a different character.

 

[Steerpike]

Killing someone because they killed his/her friend is a willing act like I stated before lol And acting on the urges when the vampire first turns sets up the will to never do it again. End of story, my point is made.

Also I believe the question was how to corrupt your main hero, and both my options offer that possiblity to veer off and become the killer their meant to be or for corruptions sake. The point is read a persons post more clearly before judging.

The "willing" nature of it varies with the extent to which some compulsion, like rage or blood lust, is on the character. It could be a willing act if it is to some extent calculated. If it is something other than the will that forces the character, then you've got a different story.

Also, "lol" is not an element of punctuation, and you should investigate the distinctions between "their" and "they're." They are much less subtle than the differences between an act of will and an act of compulsion, and your failure to make the distinction in one case may illuminate your failure to do so in the other.

 

[Ireth]

I think you'll be able to pull it off better doing it at the beginning. For one, the urge takes him the very first time so he has no control. Then he feels remorse and vows not to do it again and has help to avoid the urge. Later on in the novel at the poiint you want him too, say a human kills a friend of his so he lets the rage and urge take him in that moment and boom he does it again. I see this working best but there are other ways. Don't make him too much like Michael Corbin from Underworld because then people will look at him like he's a pussy. That's just my opinion though.

Having it happen at the beginning would make for a completely different story, which is not what I was aiming for. I want the hero to learn about vampires, what they are, how they work and what many of them do, before he finds out about the corruption aspect (see below) the hard way.

I've never seen Underworld or heard of Michael Corbin, but I can see you're insinuating that vampires who don't drink human blood are "pussies." That's your opinion, not mine. The vampires in my story were created by an evil goddess, basically to be her puppets. She wants them to drink human blood, and they have the compulsion to do so, but a good many are able to resist it. That doesn't make them "weak" or "pussies" any more than those who drink human blood are "strong" -- in fact I think it's the opposite. Those who drink human blood either don't have the strength of will to resist it, or are doing it because they enjoy it. Those who drink human blood are corrupted, and eventually turn into monsters both physically and mentally, while those who don't still remain relatively human.

I think you can make it work, Ireth. Stick with your conception. If you change it so that it happens earlier, or that it is a result of the compulsion of his urges rather than a willing act, you will have quite a different character and story than what you are planning for the second draft. There is no reason to give it a shot and see how it works out. I am always of the opinion that one should write the story one is envisioning and not be swayed into writing a different story. Once you've done the second draft you can evaluate how effective your work with the character has been and go from there.

Thanks, Steer. That's basically what I said. I'm not too far into the second draft at the moment, so I'll see how things play out later on.

I think the easiest thing for you to do would be to have him attracted to the blood but repulsed by the idea of it. Have it established up-front that, no matter how repulsed he is on an intellectual level by the thought of drinking human blood, it is something he has an urge to do.

*nodnod* Indeed. It's stated in basically those words when the hero first rises from his grave, sees his father's dog and needs to hunt and kill it for a meal: "Knowing what he had to do, but loathing the thought of it, Olan lunged after the hound, feeling a strange, beastly thrill in the hunt." It's feeding from the dog which spares him from having to do the same to his father or mother. I couldn't have them die on page ten, as they come up later in the story (as humans, which is important, so no copping out and turning them into vampires) much later on.

 

[Butterfly]

If he's suddenly going to go out and kill someone half way through then he needs a strong motive to do so, or again it's down to your control issue.

This is just a suggestion, but, is it possible or plausible that Connal could trick Olan into drinking human blood in one scene? Such as during a stretch of dialogue hand him a glass and tell him it was chicken blood, or something like that, and he drinks it which then kick-starts a craving addiction cycle. He goes hunting willingly and purposely to quench it, does so successfully, and would then regret it. After realising what Connal has done could leave him with an addiction that he seeks to break out of. Connal could then become the object of his conflict and rage.

I think your biggest issue is finding that motive, or it will seem entirely out of his character's normal behaviour to do this.

 

[The Blue Lotus]

Umm so basicly you are rewriting Louis Anne Rice's MC?

 

[Steerpike]

H
Thanks, Steer. That's basically what I said. I'm not too far into the second draft at the moment, so I'll see how things play out later on.

Yeah, and I'm glad you're sticking with that. If the character acts in full control of his faculties, entirely as a result of his own willfulness, then the later redemption (if it occurs) becomes all the more meaningful. In many ways, you are describing a much more compelling character here than one who has acted as a result of some irresistible compulsion, or even as a result of trickery. From what you are saying, he is in complete control of himself, he knows it is wrong, and he does it any way. I like that approach and I think it opens the door to a powerful transformation if you decide to redeem him later.

 

[Caged Maiden]

DISCLAIMER: I am probably not normal, though I like myself as I am, and would probably not be a good character for any book, ever. I responded privately.

In short, I believe people can know something's wrong, and do it anyways... and feel remorse... and either choose to do it again or not.

 

[Ireth]

If he's suddenly going to go out and kill someone half way through then he needs a strong motive to do so, or again it's down to your control issue.

This is just a suggestion, but, is it possible or plausible that Connal could trick Olan into drinking human blood in one scene? Such as during a stretch of dialogue hand him a glass and tell him it was chicken blood, or something like that, and he drinks it which then kick-starts a craving addiction cycle. He goes hunting willingly and purposely to quench it, does so successfully, and would then regret it. After realising what Connal has done could leave him with an addiction that he seeks to break out of. Connal could then become the object of his conflict and rage.

I think your biggest issue is finding that motive, or it will seem entirely out of his character's normal behaviour to do this.

Having Conall trick him into drinking human blood is probably the easiest idea, and the most in-character for Conall. I can see him having done so for a lot of vampires before, especially the ones Luthais (his brother-in-arms) has been trying to urge into drinking only from animals. Conall's just a butthole like that. Evil little sod.

Umm so basicly you are rewriting Louis Anne Rice's MC?

I've never read Anne Rice's books, so any similarity is coincidental.

Yeah, and I'm glad you're sticking with that. If the character acts in full control of his faculties, entirely as a result of his own willfulness, then the later redemption (if it occurs) becomes all the more meaningful. In many ways, you are describing a much more compelling character here than one who has acted as a result of some irresistible compulsion, or even as a result of trickery. From what you are saying, he is in complete control of himself, he knows it is wrong, and he does it any way. I like that approach and I think it opens the door to a powerful transformation if you decide to redeem him later.

*nod* Exactly. Trickery is reserved for the villain, compulsion is for most of the other vampires (including the villain himself, in the past when he was less villainous).

DISCLAIMER: I am probably not normal, though I like myself as I am, and would probably not be a good character for any book, ever. I responded privately.

In short, I believe people can know something's wrong, and do it anyways... and feel remorse... and either choose to do it again or not.

You've pretty much summed up the motive of Ciaran, the protagonist's vampire friend. XD He killed one human because Conall pretty much forced him to, and turned another one of his own free will. He feels remorse about both, and urges the protagonist to not go down the same path as he did, lest he go too far and end up like Conall.

 

[Phin Scardaw]

Let yourself be guided by the story and it will come to you. I believe also in writing what you think is the right thing to do, as Steerpike is saying - don't let yourself be swayed. I always invite others to share their opinions, but reserve the right to reject any of them if I don't agree with what they suggest for my story.

I think that by the time your readers get to the point when Olan makes his choice, they will already be fully committed to that character. I believe that it is very difficult for a writer to alienate readers once they've already identified with the protagonist, no matter what sort of foul deeds they might do. I think they only way to truly turn off a reader is by letting your characters do something that is completely out of character for them, as this strains their credibility.

So don't worry about it too much - write it like you feel it should be written, then pass it out for opinions on how to strengthen the passage if you feel it needs work.

Chances are, your readers will find the story even more compelling if Olan succumbs to temptation and they'll be rooting for him even more because now they know there's a risk of his becoming corrupt. The only tricky part for you would be finding the right circumstances wherein Olan would give in. Good luck!

 

[Steerpike]

I think that by the time your readers get to the point when Olan makes his choice, they will already be fully committed to that character. I believe that it is very difficult for a writer to alienate readers once they've already identified with the protagonist, no matter what sort of foul deeds they might do. I think they only way to truly turn off a reader is by letting your characters do something that is completely out of character for them, as this strains their credibility.

This is a good point, Phin. I think you are generally right about this. Once the reader is invested, they will tend to stay there, and even if the character does something they dislike they will stay with the character and maybe even hope for redemption (which makes it that much more satisfying when it comes). Doing something completely out of character, at least without explanation, will be a problem for many readers.

 

[Steerpike]

No need to upset yourself Rullenzar. You shouldn't initiate snide commentary if you're going to be offended to receive it in return. I generally assume that people who go down that path have thick enough skins to weather it. I suppose the irony of your most recent posting escapes you as well...

 

[Steerpike]

If I was upset in any way steerpike, believe me when I say you would have known it by my last post. You should consider taking your own advice ^ lol Have a nice day. Rull out!

Hmmmm. No, this doesn't quite work. I'm available for private tutoring at exceedingly reasonable rates (PM me).

On a serious note, however, my comments about the suggestions offered to the OP are valid. It is not uncommon in a writing forum for advice to take the form of a reworking of a story in the way the commentator would write it, as opposed to the approach the author has in mind. For writers who have been at it a while, this isn't generally a problem because they will, for the most part, ignore such suggestions. But there are a wide range of authors here, in terms of experience, and many writers who are just starting out will attach some authority to such suggestions and start changing their stories. In this case, the question raised by the OP goes to a fundamental aspect of the character. The suggestions change the story into something quite different. My opinion is that the OP should not adopt those suggestions. People who disagree can present their viewpoint, just as I've disagreed with the suggestions, and the OP can ultimately decide. That is how a discussion is conducted. The idea that anyone, including you or I, should be able to post a suggestion with no one else making a critical comment of it is just silly. Also, if you give advice to a fellow author asking questions, but will be offended if your advice is not taken, it is better to refrain from giving it.

 

[Phin Scardaw]

DISCLAIMER: I am probably not normal, though I like myself as I am, and would probably not be a good character for any book, ever.

I am very, very curious about THIS comment!

 

[The Din]

Isn't the MC a vampire? Let him kill a bunch of people, thus surrendering to his new position on the food chain. Redemption could come after he discovers one of his victims has a family.
I personally corrupt the **** out of my characters. Nothing worse than following a goody-two-shoes who does exactly what's expected for the entire novel. (specially if he's a vampire)

 

[Ireth]

Isn't the MC a vampire? Let him kill a bunch of people, thus surrendering to his new position on the food chain. Redemption could come after he discovers one of his victims has a family.
I personally corrupt the **** out of my characters. Nothing worse than following a goody-two-shoes who does exactly what's expected for the entire novel. (specially if he's a vampire)

That would make him no better than the villain. The thing about the corruption of my vampires is, the more corrupted one is the harder it is to be redeemed. The redemption process is a very specific act of sacrifice based on mutual love -- the vampire sacrifices his/her life for a loved one, and the loved one avenges their death by killing the killer. If my MC is living far from anyone he knows and loves (which he is for the bulk of the novel), and I turn him into a mass murderer, who would he sacrifice himself for? And who would step forward to avenge him?