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Creating strong Female characters?

Discussion in 'Writing Discussions' started by Darkfantasy, Oct 8, 2018.

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  1. Mythopoet

    Mythopoet Auror

    Can you name me a few female characters that meet this description? From books, preferably. I've not encountered any that I can think of like this, personally.
  2. Annoyingkid

    Annoyingkid Banned

    I know Sarah Connor had a weapon. If simply giving the SFC a weapon solves your problem with it, then you should have just said so.

    You think man beating 100 guys doesn't create a void of disbelief suspension but a woman doing the same does? You realize neither happens irl.

    Leading and hunting would need proof. But here's a question:

    If you had a setting where elves make naturally better warriors, does that mean you'd think no human can become a top level warrior because genetics and nature rules the human's destiny?

    I saw Mockingjay part II. Katniss just stood around with an emotionless face, being "inspiring", while others manufactured her image. Was utterly boring to watch seeing the SFC reduced to being a living banner or flag.

    He's not nearly that old in the comics. (the canon material)

    "And nobody can relate to women fighting and acting macho."

    I can.

    "All our lives, we've seen men do that and not women in real life."

    Seen it in MMA.
    Men don't out fight bears in close quarters irl, but we see them doing alot of that against equivalent monsters in fantasy.

    Why do you consider other races and genders having greater representation to be an attack on you and a battle? Why the zero sum game? Straight, cis, white men still hold the large majority in the medias you're interested in.

    "And people will see through it, just like the Ghostbusters remake, the Ocean's Eleven remake or the new Star Wars movies and just not watch it."

    While Oceans 8 made 100 mill less than Oceans 13, it was after an 11 year gap, trying to revive a concluded franchise with different characters, with a 15 million smaller budget.

    Judging how Solo, a Star Wars story did, using recasted males probably wouldn't have done any better.

    Force Awakens is the highest grossing Star Wars film ever made.

    The Last Jedi was badly written. Ghostbusters barely even had a script, they just ad libbed the whole movie.

    "I think you just can't accept the idea that women are never going to be viewed as strong, fighting machines like men are by the majority of society."

    Lets look at two equivalent fantasy shows in the same setting by the same production company. One with a male lead, one with a female.

    Buffy The Vampire Slayer outperformed Angel in ratings.
    Xena Warrior Princess outperformed Hercules The Legendary Journeys in ratings.

    "Can you imagine if this started having an influence on how women viewed reality and had them thinking they could beat men in real fights? The mortality rates would skyrocket"

    What, like men thinking they're really the Joker?
    Cops: Colo. Suspect Said He 'Was the Joker'

    Maybe men shouldn't have these stories if you can't tell fantasy from reality?

    "Instead of their conservative views on violence against women and not hitting them, they would start to not have any qualms on beating the utter shit out of women just like they do with men."

    Oh really, so in your mind, conservative views means less violence against women. So that must mean Middle Eastern, orthodox Islamic countries must have the lowest violence against women in the world?

    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    TheCrystallineEntity and Nimue like this.
  3. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Dreamer

    But that's not good enough is it? Women need to believe they can physically beat a man without weapons.

    I'm talking about the role being taken up by a female. It's just unrealistic.

    Proof? Over 40,000 years of human history. Every attempt females have made to create their own civilization has failed. Male armies and civilizations always subjugated them with so much as a fuss.

    That's a species difference. It's like saying there's a race of 15 meter tall, instant-regenerating titans that make naturally better warriors, can humanity ever attain the potential to be better than them at being a warrior?

    Which is what happens in the real life most of the time.

    Does it actually matter? He's an old frail man, that's why he has that kind of role. That's the whole point. That's why the author made him so.

    Against other females. Against men, they would die from a glancing blow. Ergo, gender division exists.

    And suddenly women should do it too? Just because men do? It's like a kid wanting some other kid's toy truck just because he has it. It's immature.

    Because that's how these people view it. The fact that you're calling us "cis" is evidence of this battle going on. I am not "cis", I am a normal male without any problems. That's the whole aim, to try and erode our existence from the face of the Earth in an act of vengeance for what people did to their ancestors 200 years ago.

    And to do this, you constantly pump out horrid SJW infested content in movies and in books with a diverse cast that has no other purpose but to say "diversity is our strength".

    They were exploiting women in a SJW dominant world in hopes that they'd get tons of money but didn't anticipate that women generally don't care about movies originally created for men so they flopped. Mild shock.

    Buffy was more well known compared to Angel.

    And there are already real life consequences of movies/books perpetuating the idea that females can beat men in fights. Women join the police force, fully thinking that they can take down male suspects and they end up with a caved in face and a plethora of life-threatening problems that will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

    There was another meaning to the word "conservative" before all this political cancer came and took over the world.
  4. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Dreamer

    The point I'm trying to make is that women should stop trying to copy men in everything they do. Make their own way in this world. Doing things that men have already done is just boring, pointless and doesn't bring anything new to the table.
  5. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Dreamer

    It's mostly in movies since I don't read books with female protagonists. There's a character from the 2013 movie Riddick where a mercenary female is always constantly beating the shit out of this one man who's always an asshole to her. It's literally a man dressed up like a woman, it's ridiculous and it's almost like the movie expected me to believe this thing.
  6. Sheilawisz

    Sheilawisz Queen of Titania Moderator

    Hello everyone!

    This thread has already been derailed and it has entered negative territory in several ways. Please stop the argument, and keep the discussion focused on Fantasy stories and characters.

    Thank you!
    Steerpike likes this.
  7. Annoyingkid

    Annoyingkid Banned

    Superior martial techique is effectively a weapon. Which is what the SFC is trying to portray.
    SFCs that win despite inferior technique and inferior physical stats don't exactly ever win just because. There's usually a reason. ex. Kylo Ren was bleeding out and probably lightheaded when he fought Rey.

    How do you define unrealistic besides "Never happens irl?"

    Again, not true.
    'The land where women rule'

    We're not talking about women marching out en masse and subjugating nations and ruling men. That shouldn't be your response to the notion of individualistic SFC's operating in fiction.

    Also fantasy by it's nature, is a form of speculative fiction. It need not have happened irl to be a viable subject.

    Don't strawman the argument. Answer the question as asked. If the average human male has say, only 60% of the upper body strength of an elf and 80% of the lower body strength naturally, does that mean biology rules the human's destiny and the human can never become a top warrior and should give up?

    Answer Yes or No.

    I won't accept any other answer.

    "Which is what happens in the real life most of the time."

    Real life war isn't entertainment. Fantasy is.

    Actually he's a 64 year old ex military veteran. Was a field medic.


    "Against other females. Against men, they would die from a glancing blow. Ergo, gender division exists"

    Against men in the same weight class, they wouldn't die from any blows unless very unlucky. But a heavyweight will be able to knock out a lightweight sure. But this carries the assumption that low, real world fantasy is the only valid artform. Which is nonsense.

    It's equality.

    "I am not "cis", I am a normal male without any problems. "

    That's what "cis" means. It means you're not transgender.

    "That's the whole aim, to try and erode our existence from the face of the Earth in an act of vengeance for what people did to their ancestors 200 years ago".

    The numbers say you're far from being eroded. So this is not debatable.

    69% of Ocean's 8 audiences were women.
    Ocean's 8 - Wikipedia

    Xena wasn't more well known than Hercules.

    Also Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon has some of the best fight scenes ever put to film, is female dominated in that regard, has a 97% critic rating on Rotten Tommatoes, An 86% audience score, and had
    Budget US$17 million
    Box office US$213.5 million
    Massive profit.

    Wonder Woman with 100 million lower budget, drew almost the same box office as Batman v Superman.

    Women, although still the minority in popular fiction, have been seen as viable action leads for some time now.

    It's disrespectful toward their courage to assume they didn't know the risks and were just high off the portrayal of Strong female characters in media.

    The idea or threat that men are going to start to see women as viable targets for violence because of SFC's lacks teeth considering the rates of domestic violence has already been epidemic for a very long time.

    Edit - The mod ninja'd me, but I think this debate has concluded anyway.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    Nimue likes this.
  8. Devor

    Devor Fiery Keeper of the Hat Moderator

    While there's room to talk about gender portrayals and some of the differences between men and women, several remarks in this thread have clearly crossed the line, and it's moved well beyond any useful function.

    In the future please try to take a topic like this on its own merits and avoid using it as a proxy for political fighting. And please do your best to avoid characterizing groups of real people.

    Also thanks to the individual who reported this thread.
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