Fantasy Swearing

[Laurence]

As someone who's surrounded by swear words day in, day out, I find the absence of them slightly odd. If someone writes a roguish character that doesn't swear, it makes me think that the author is putting their own comfort / willingness to be accepted before the needs of the story.

That said, if the book is obviously middle grade from the get go, I don't mind whatsoever. Didn't consider it once during Harry Potter (except that I hate the word git, which Rowling is obsessed with).

In my own WIP I've tried to lose them wherever possible, but have one or two characters who do use them when truly frustrated—in what I think are pretty realistic places that don't throw you out of the story but keep you submerged instead. I think the frustration part is key here, because they're reacting too quickly to think of a poetic verse about an issue. If a character of mine is insulting someone for fun, I would use a more accurate description of the victim.

 

[Insolent Lad]

When it comes to heavy-duty swearing or profanity, I admittedly sometimes find myself side-stepping the whole thing by saying 'So-and-so swore a great oath' or 'Such-a-person cursed vehemently' or something along those lines. My characters rarely go beyond the occasional 'damn' or 'by Jov' or that sort of relatively mild thing. And yes, that is 'Jov,' not Jove.

 

[Ewolf20]

My characters are bugs so they more or less commonly use dung in place of f##k or c##p. So "gosh dung it".

 

[Rkcapps]

Who's your audience? how will they react? what would they expect to see?

 

[Devor]

I wanted to come back to this because I've been thinking about it a little more lately. I think my problem with fantasy swearing is that it's not usually fantasy swearing, it's instead just a thin euphemistic guise for modern English swearing.

Swearing varies a lot in different languages, and also has throughout the history of any one language. There's no reason to think swearing in your fantasy world has to look at all like it does in ours. I had a roommate from the Ukraine once who complained that his language didn't have enough swear wears so people always cursed in English or in Russian, where he used to say "swearing is like its own language."

I don't think I've seen a very good example of swearing that like I was in another world. But I do think I've seen some that have put me in another place, if not another world, and I've seen some that have, for lack of a better phrase, felt like kids or teenagers doing a bad job of being subtle or clever about cursing in front of their peers.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

I wanted to come back to this because I've been thinking about it a little more lately. I think my problem with fantasy swearing is that it's not usually fantasy swearing, it's instead just a thin euphemistic guise for modern English swearing.

Swearing varies a lot in different languages, and also has throughout the history of any one language. There's no reason to think swearing in your fantasy world has to look at all like it does in ours. I had a roommate from the Ukraine once who complained that his language didn't have enough swear wears so people always cursed in English or in Russian, where he used to say "swearing is like its own language."

I don't think I've seen a very good example of swearing that like I was in another world. But I do think I've seen some that have put me in another place, if not another world, and I've seen some that have, for lack of a better phrase, felt like kids or teenagers doing a bad job of being subtle or clever about cursing in front of their peers.

Much of the trouble with swearing/taboo/offensive words when trying to create them in a fantasy culture is that if the swearing actually takes you to another world... people won’t get that the character is swearing nor understand what the hell they mean without exposition... It’d be as bad as “get ye to a nunnery” in Shakespeare. What was the word used in a chidlren’s book in Quebec? Tabernacle? The author was French, and well, that word was a mistake in Quebec, they had to pull the book. Apparently it’s as useful in Quebec as the F-word is in the US, but if a character I was reading said that in a fantasy novel? Well, WTF might well be my response, along with a chuckle. Keeping swears close to the target audience’s vernacular might be good.

I have a good time stringing together fantasy cusses. Son of a turd sucking toad poker just flew from my fingers a couple years ago, and it stuck in a short story.

 

[skip.knox]

I learned from Harry Turtledove (well, from his books) that the French tend to swear in religious terms while Americans (and English) tend to swear in anatomical terms. That was my first insight into the cultural differences bound up in swearing.

I also point out that swearing is different from cursing--a difference rather unfortunately lost among moderns.

 

[Orc Knight]

I also point out that swearing is different from cursing--a difference rather unfortunately lost among moderns.

Doesn't cursing involve more witches?

 

[Steerpike]

I learned from Harry Turtledove (well, from his books) that the French tend to swear in religious terms while Americans (and English) tend to swear in anatomical terms. That was my first insight into the cultural differences bound up in swearing.

I also point out that swearing is different from cursing--a difference rather unfortunately lost among moderns.

I met Turtledove at WorldCon this year. Very nice guy.

 

[skip.knox]

Doesn't cursing involve more witches?

Not at all. Anyone can curse anyone. There are some truly awesome one from ancient times. They can get quite specific.

A witch probably doesn't need to curse, since a witch is more likely to work a spell or administer a potion.

Since we are (okay, I am) drawing distinctions, I'll distinguish as well between a curse, swearing, and an obscenity.

One swears to tell the whole truth (etc) in court. That's swearing. Because one traditionally swore on a Bible and by God, Anabaptists refused to do so, which meant they refused several times of civic obligations. Swearing is a most serious matter.

Curses are serious as well, but they are outside the law. Curses typically (but not always) involve invoking one or more divinities that will ensure that the person will suffer the consequences of the (sometimes distressingly specific) curse should the other person do or fail to do some particular thing.

An obscenity (which I think is really what we are talking about) is merely a word or phrase intended to shock. There really ought to be a fourth category, for which I would use the phrase "dirty word", that is used primarily as emphasis or even as punctuation or exclamation. Not intended to shock, though it may offend some.

I do think authors ought to be aware of the differences. And I fully agree that it's really difficult to introduce any of these in a fantasy world. Or, for that matter, in historical fiction more than a couple of centuries old. The best practictioner, imo, was Patrick O'Brian, who managed to hit the right notes not only historically but socially, without ever seeming quaint or obscure.

 

[Grant_Evermoore]

This is one of those times that I wish I could have taken that course in taboo language when I got my BA in Linguistics.

Yes, taboo language varies greatly by culture, which it means it also varies by time period. The words that are taboo today were not always so; and words that we are free with today were not always so free. "Gay" as an epithet is a good example of this kind of shift. We are much more comfortable today with words like "shit" and "damn" but much less comfortable with racist, sexist, or ableist slurs.

Your fantasy world can have scatalogical terms (eg, "shit"), sexual terms ("bugger", "fuck"), or terms insulting one's parentage (eg, "bastard"). We all know about those. But there are also terms deemed blasphemous, profane or heretical in a religious sense. I don't just mean words like "damn" or "hell" which have specific religious meanings, but also:

• zounds (short for "God's wounds")
• sblood (short for "God's blood")
• strewth (short for "God's truth")
• crikey (short for "Christ, kill me")
• blimey (short for "God blind me")

In some cultures, there is a greater or lesser tolerance for comparing people to animals (eg, words like "rat" or "cow" or "bitch" in English, words like "fressen" [to eat like an animal] or "Schweinhund" in German). We also get insulting and impolite words that denigrate someone's background or profession ("villain" used to mean "serf" and "hussy" used to mean "housewife," for instance).

Your swearing should basically reflect whatever topic is considered most offensive to discuss in public. You could use your imagination here. It could be about what people eat, how they dress, who they marry, what gods they worship. Me, I think swearing in fantasy novels is great. It says a lot about your worldbuilding when you reveal which things are not said in polite company, and which social groups are powerful enough to decide which words are excluded. Is it the clergy? Then blasphemy. The aristocracy? Then scatology and parentage. The wizards? Then lack of magical talent. It could even be a sign of a certain group's waxing or waning influence that certain words are now (or no longer) taboo.

 

[toomanyhobbies]

I feel like a lot of it depends on the language of the particular book, doesn't it? I mean, if it's written in a very lofty, flowery or old-fashioned style and the characters' speech is the same, I don't think that some modern curse words would fit any better than modern slang words like "Dude" (that may be an extreme example). But when it's written in a more modern or casual tone (regardless of the time period) then in my experience, many modern words often find their way in without seeming out of place at all.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

In our urban fantasy series we have a couple of potty mouths, one worse than the other. As a result, our first book, Faerie Rising, has 51 uses of the f-bomb and the s-word in three languages, English, French, and Spanish.

On the other hand we have a character who's strongest curse is "Blast!" This amuses the hell out of me.

It really depends on the characters, the setting, the tone, and what feels right to you as a writer.

 

[Grant_Evermoore]

I feel like a lot of it depends on the language of the particular book, doesn't it? I mean, if it's written in a very lofty, flowery or old-fashioned style and the characters' speech is the same, I don't think that some modern curse words would fit any better than modern slang words like "Dude" (that may be an extreme example). But when it's written in a more modern or casual tone (regardless of the time period) then in my experience, many modern words often find their way in without seeming out of place at all.

I think what you're saying, and pardon me if I'm putting words in your mouth, is that too-modern language can be immersion-breaking. Your fantasy character might use a word like "fuck" because it's an English word like all the other English words in your book; but a term like "motherfucker" or "asshat" would stand out as being too of-this-world.

 

[skip.knox]

That's one problem I have with Scott Lynch's book, The Lies of Locke Lamorra. All the characters--and I do mean all of them--have this arch way of speaking that reminds me of nothing so much as Goldfinger. Then there'll will be some vulgarity dropped in, and it's as out of place as a parachute. Imagine if Goldfinger's line were: "no, you asshat, I expect you to die."

 

[FifthView]

But when it's written in a more modern or casual tone (regardless of the time period) then in my experience, many modern words often find their way in without seeming out of place at all.

I find I can't keep reading anything that uses a very modern idiom in a much older time period, even a fake time period from an invented world if that world/period is meant to have an older feel.

I'm a huge enemy of "It's translation!" excuses.

An exception might be something that is obviously meant to be light or comedic, perhaps a farce, although I think it'd have to be very good in other respects. I'd still have to fight to get over the modern usages; so, basically, I'm saying I'd have to be distracted by other things capturing my attention.

 

[Grant_Evermoore]

When I write fantasy I try to avoid immersion-breaking words of all sorts, not just profanity. For instance, I avoid words like "okay" because it just doesn't sound right in a fantasy story. To me. Your mileage may vary, etc.

 

[Steerpike]

When I write fantasy I try to avoid immersion-breaking words of all sorts, not just profanity. For instance, I avoid words like "okay" because it just doesn't sound right in a fantasy story. To me. Your mileage may vary, etc.

To me, immersions depends on reader expectations as set by the author. If you’re reading Tolkien, modern idioms etc would be a problem. If you’re reading Glen Cook’s fantasy/hard-boiled detective books, not so much.

 

[Grant_Evermoore]

Sure. Obviously your word palette is going to be governed by your genre and tone. My current novel is high fantasy, so those are the limits I set for myself.

 

[Gurkhal]

As mentioned genre wil influence the swearing. In a high fantasy swearing may seem out of place while in a grimdark story harsh swearing seems like to be wrong if its not included. But I would probably use real world swearing as made-up cursing don't carry the same punch as atually cursing does to the reader.