Good fantasy books with nero-divergent characters

[Rowan_Doll]

Being nero-divergent myself, I find it hard to find good fantasy book, that represents nero-diversity well. Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[pmmg]

Representation is not my thing. So, I dont follow or score it.

But, I understand the Percy Jackson books feature this.

 

[Finchbearer]

There is a classic that follows a boy with autism called The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime, which is not fantasy but nevertheless a very clear depiction of certain presentations of autism. Emily Wilde’s Encyclopaedia of Faeries features a female MC who is almost certainly ND, and is a contemporary fantasy story.

I think there are also a LOT of books with characters who looking back probably could be classified as ND, but either weren’t intentionally made that way, but now looking at them through a modern lens appear to have been taken from ND characteristics.

 

[pmmg]

I was thinking something along those lines. ND is kind of a new trend. Many books might have characters that might be considered such by today's standards, but it wasn't a thing when they were being written. Sherlock Holmes for instance seems to have a lot of peculiarities and a genius like focus. Might he be presented more as ND if he were written today? So, asking for a body of work featuring these is likely to lead just to today's trendy writers. It would be hard to point to classic well known books in their realm when the window is so small. And to have them be quality... I suspect there is a lot of slush there still not sifted out.

 

[Finchbearer]

I was thinking something along those lines. ND is kind of a new trend. Many books might have characters that might be considered such by today's standards, but it wasn't a thing when they were being written. Sherlock Holmes for instance seems to have a lot of peculiarities and a genius like focus. Might he be presented more as ND if he were written today? So, asking for a body of work featuring these is likely to lead just to today's trendy writers. It would be hard to point to classic well known books in their realm when the window is so small. And to have them be quality... I suspect there is a lot of slush there still not sifted out.

Sherlock Holmes is probably a near perfect example of a clearly autistic dude solving crimes, just he wasn’t depicted as being such. I am not of the same opinion that talking about neurodiversity is just a trend, but more that we now have more awareness of it. I suspect there are a lot more ND people in the world than is currently estimated. I think for young people growing up today have the advantage of knowing more about neurodiverse conditions because differences can be better understood, accommodated better and even celebrated rather than chastised. It wasn’t all that long ago that people generally thought of those with dyslexia as dumb, those with autism as odd and those with ADHD as just badly behaved, so I think better understanding and more representation is a good thing. I think bringing this new understanding and ownership into fiction writing is like any other aspect of a higher understanding of the human condition. I am not of the opinion however that writers need be pressured into writing something that fits into a box.

 

[Rowan_Doll]

Sherlock Holmes is probably a near perfect example of a clearly autistic dude solving crimes, just he wasn’t depicted as being such. I am not of the same opinion that talking about neurodiversity is just a trend, but more that we now have more awareness of it. I suspect there are a lot more ND people in the world than is currently estimated. I think for young people growing up today have the advantage of knowing more about neurodiverse conditions because differences can be better understood, accommodated better and even celebrated rather than chastised. It wasn’t all that long ago that people generally thought of those with dyslexia as dumb, those with autism as odd and those with ADHD as just badly behaved, so I think better understanding and more representation is a good thing. I think bringing this new understanding and ownership into fiction writing is like any other aspect of a higher understanding of the human condition. I am not of the opinion however that writers need be pressured into writing something that fits into a box.

I agree with this 1000%

 

[pmmg]

I would agree with it marginally.

The great attention on this is relatively new, and a side effect of it is a greater propensity to find it, in professional diagnosis, or in self diagnosis, where it may not actually exist. And the danger of that is setting people up to have built in maladies that explain away lack of personal achievement (not dissimilar to using it as a type of victim mentality). And so...I would be greatly on guard for that. We don't need reasons to say this is why you cant. Better to think you can.

For many people, its a real thing. Its a real thing now, and it was a real thing then, and evolution of its awareness is a good thing. But for many different people, its an identity-thing they have fallen into, largely in part to its prevalence of discussion in the culture. So, I would say its both at the same time. Sometimes separate. sometimes together.

That is also different and separate from the word of media, for which getting more characters of this sort is a trend. Its hot today, it might not be tomorrow, and wasn't in the past, cause it was not prevalent on anyone's mind. Which goes back to, it could only be found directly in more recent stuff. Since time has not passed to sort out the good from the bad, there's less well known titles to pull from.

Its not my job to sort it out. If you say that's your issue, I'll accept it. But I am also an observer of the world. A lot of it makes me question.

 

[inverty]

Goku from DBZ (R.i.p Akira Toriyama)
Tom Sawyer From Huckelberry Finn
Gregory House (House)
And while unconfirmed a definate choice is Tris Prior from (Divergent)

As a kid with textbook ADD (ADHD Inattentive) I tend to relate with these characters. There are many other characters that are most likely Neuro-divergent but just have never been classed as such.

 

[Queshire]

Huh, I never considered Goku, but that makes sense.

 

[Finchbearer]

I would agree with it marginally.

The great attention on this is relatively new, and a side effect of it is a greater propensity to find it, in professional diagnosis, or in self diagnosis, where it may not actually exist. And the danger of that is setting people up to have built in maladies that explain away lack of personal achievement (not dissimilar to using it as a type of victim mentality). And so...I would be greatly on guard for that. We don't need reasons to say this is why you cant. Better to think you can.

For many people, its a real thing. Its a real thing now, and it was a real thing then, and evolution of its awareness is a good thing. But for many different people, its an identity-thing they have fallen into, largely in part to its prevalence of discussion in the culture. So, I would say its both at the same time. Sometimes separate. sometimes together.

That is also different and separate from the word of media, for which getting more characters of this sort is a trend. Its hot today, it might not be tomorrow, and wasn't in the past, cause it was not prevalent on anyone's mind. Which goes back to, it could only be found directly in more recent stuff. Since time has not passed to sort out the good from the bad, there's less well known titles to pull from.

Its not my job to sort it out. If you say that's your issue, I'll accept it. But I am also an observer of the world. A lot of it makes me question.

I don’t know. What I get from this is that you don’t think neurodivergence is real? And that people who ‘identify’ as neurodivergent play the victim card all the time? And bringing this into fiction is just trendy? In the past many autistic people would be sent to institutions and have no human rights.

There may be some aspects of what you are saying within popular culture; young people especially like to discover what their identity is, and may gravitate towards a tribe, that is only a natural path to adulthood. But by and large we are talking about real people’s lives. An autistic brain for example actually looks different on an MRI scan to a neurotypical brain. It’s not just an excuse for bad behaviour or anything else along those lines. Reading a character in a book who is similar to you who you’ve never come across before because you’re underrepresented is empowering.

 

[Finchbearer]

Here is a great article by Penguin talking about neurodiversity in books.

 

[pmmg]

I don’t know. What I get from this is that you don’t think neurodivergence is real? And that people who ‘identify’ as neurodivergent play the victim card all the time? And bringing this into fiction is just trendy? In the past many autistic people would be sent to institutions and have no human rights.

Well...I think if ADHD was a thing (where that go by the way?) when I was a child, I'd have been diagnosed with it. And I am pretty sure both my children have this to some degree. You did not see me saying it is not real. You also did not see me using a word like 'all'. But I can certainly point to many who have gravitated to finding reasons to call themselves this or that, and then use it as a hammock to keep away from things that might lead to more successful behaviors and outcomes.

And yes, it is trendy, along with many other things as well. If tomorrow, people start giving it less attention, the art industry will as well. In fact, I might say, its already had its peak. And the conversation has shifted to the many reasons those who already tried to include it got it wrong.

In the past, many people were sent to institutions for many reasons, and many people had some or all of their rights taken away. Not all of them were for reasons of autism, and this did not happen to many autistic people, and not all autistic people who were sent to institutions were sent because of their autism. Many institutions in general treated a lot of people very badly, autistic or not. Was that a problem of the autism? or a problem of the Institutions? If instead we had institutions that had a long history of treating people with dignity, rights and humanely, we would say, a lot of people with autism were sent to these, and they were treated well. Which is to say, if the argument is, look how badly they were treated in the past, and thank god we don't do that today....well, everyone was treated badly in the past, autism had not much to do with that.

There may be some aspects of what you are saying within popular culture; young people especially like to discover what their identity is, and may gravitate towards a tribe, that is only a natural path to adulthood. But by and large we are talking about real people’s lives. An autistic brain for example actually looks different on an MRI scan to a neurotypical brain. It’s not just an excuse for bad behaviour or anything else along those lines

I'll just sum this up by saying 'to the degree that it is true'. But it is true, particularly for people of certain age groups, that when they claim things about their identity, my first reaction is usually one of cautious acceptance. Many people are just a product of their culture.

Reading a character in a book who is similar to you who you’ve never come across before because you’re underrepresented is empowering.

I never said it wasn't. But I might question the value this really brings.

 

[Finchbearer]

I wasn’t insinuating that asylums were filled only with undiagnosed autistic people, it was just an example to show how far we have come in understanding that neurodivergence in itself is not the same thing as mental illness, although those with neurodivergent conditions are more likely to suffer from mental illness.

 

[inverty]

I wasn’t insinuating that asylums were filled only with undiagnosed autistic people, it was just an example to show how far we have come in understanding that neurodivergence in itself is not the same thing as mental illness, although those with neurodivergent conditions are more likely to suffer from mental illness.

As a person with ADD in the south, it's unbelievably common for people here especially teachers and principles to completely reject the notion of ADHD and then get all awkward when you confront them about it. Despite being diagnosed and dealing with issues and struggles related to ADD my entire life I still face constant ridicule every time I bring it up. It's especially disheartening that my daughter inherited it from me and the teachers here refuse to adjust the way they teach her. Some people are just so stubborn that just because something isn't obvious they think it doesn't exist. (The ironic thing is when you know what to look for ADHD/ADD is EXTREMELY obvious )

 

[Fyri]

Being nero-divergent myself, I find it hard to find good fantasy book, that represents nero-diversity well. Does anyone have any recommendations?

*Gasp* No one has mentioned "On The Edge of Gone" by Corinne Duyvis?! Sci-fi apocalypse with autistic MC and the author is also autistic. <3

I'm currently reading "Pieces of Me" by Kate Mclaughlin. Realistic fiction about an 18 year old girl discovering she has DID. I love it so far because it isn't glorifying or horrifying the condition. Rather, it is being honest and far more accurate than most other media portrayals.

Hmmm. Also... *cough* my book when it's published someday *cough* Oh! This short story collection is also a great resource!

I have mixed feelings about Neal Shusterman's "Roxy," a story with a female ADHDer protagonist and the dangers of drug abuse (the drugs have their own mystical POV and world).

I just realized not all of these are fantasy. XD This is all I can think of right now that I've actually read. I have more, but I can't say yay or nay on the ND rep in those.

 

[Fyri]

Beyond that. I would recommend tv shows.

Fantasy =

Owl House--MC is DEFINITELY ADHD. XD Queshire agrees it is an amazing show, I would assume.

I remember Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts striking me as Neurodivergent, but it's been a little while.

Non-Fantasy:

"Community" does a pretty decent job with the autistic character, Abed.

"Everything's Gonna Be Okay" is the first show to have an ASD character played by and ASD actress (Bless Kayla Cromer) and it's also really funny to me because the director and actor of another MC on the show discovered he is also autistic while filming the show and started about getting disgnosed.

Also, a show that got cancelled way too soon: "As We See It." Autistic group home with various goals and struggles.

 

[Queshire]

So, this is a tough one. A lot of the time we have to rely on coding or personal interpretation of a character. Even worse, there's no guarantee that a neurodivergent character will be done well even if they're explicitly stated to be neurodivergent. (I've never been able to bring myself to watch the Good Doctor for example.)

Neurodivergent main characters are another rarity on top of that. For the most part I've had to contend myself with side characters or minor characters as good examples of neurodivergent characters.

When it comes to Autistic coded characters one of my favorites has to be Ruan Mei from Honkai Star Rail. Now, she does fall under the heading of the Autistic coded super genius and something she does to the protagonist in that game is despicable, but they manage to do things that you just don't see with Autistic coded characters that much.

You can just see her pure joy as a kid and it contrasts wonderfully with the isolation and yearning that so often comes with growing up neurodivergent. More than that, though, she is presented as an elegant character where so many Autistic coded characters end up a bit childish. Furthermore, the trailer doesn't touch on it, but in the game she's presented as having a interest in sweets and she actually fights using an instrument. It's great to see an Autistic coded super genius character who has more going on in their life than just being a tech head.

 

[Queshire]

Slight tangent, but I would argue that there's certain situations where neurodivergence would be a benefit. If your eyes flick from one thing to another because of ADHD then that sounds like it'd be useful for spotting mushrooms or berries while foraging in a forest, and the quiet & routine of a sheepherder sounds like it'd be perfect for someone with Autism.

 

[LittleOwlbear]

Beyond that. I would recommend tv shows.

Fantasy =

Owl House--MC is DEFINITELY ADHD. XD Queshire agrees it is an amazing show, I would assume.

I remember Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts striking me as Neurodivergent, but it's been a little while.

Non-Fantasy:

"Community" does a pretty decent job with the autistic character, Abed.

"Everything's Gonna Be Okay" is the first show to have an ASD character played by and ASD actress (Bless Kayla Cromer) and it's also really funny to me because the director and actor of another MC on the show discovered he is also autistic while filming the show and started about getting disgnosed.

Also, a show that got cancelled way too soon: "As We See It." Autistic group home with various goals and struggles.

The creator said she wanted to make a more ideal school for neurodivergent kids.
Her parents also sent her to the "get normal"-camp before she came into the Owl House, do yeah that was intentional.