How long is too long for a prologue?

[Leif Notae]

The reason I ask is due to a review of the last Wheel of Time novel where they stated the prologue was over 60 pages long.

That's almost as long as a novella or a very long short story (15000 words).

Wha...?

Granted, I'm sure everyone already knows my opinion that Sanderson is the worst modern writer that ever tapped on the keys, but even without that qualifying statement, this is dumb. Sometimes you just need to cut the stuff out.

So, how long of a prologue is too long for you?

 

[BWFoster78]

1 word, but I hate prologues.

For the specific case you mentioned, however, I don't consider the "prologue" in A Memory of Light a typical prologue. It's really used to catch you up on what a bunch of the minor characters are doing. Once you get through it to the book, you know they're starting to focus on the major characters.

One could well argue that the minor characters are unnecessary, but that's different conversation...

 

[JBryden88]

I've read 30 page prologues and two page prologues. It really depends on if the prologue is interesting or not, and adds anything to the overall story.

 

[JCFarnham]

Depends entire on whether you can sustain interest for as long as it takes to get through you 60 page monster prologue. There's a good way to do it, and a bad way (I hope we all know the difference because I'm not going to get into that mess right now).

Here's my rule of thumb: Longer than a regular chapter? That too long. Pretty arbitrary I'll admit, but I like my prologues short and sweet.

 

[Anders Ämting]

As long as it needs to be in order to do the job, I guess. However I personally wouldn't make it longer than a chapter, probably shorter.

 

[atkogirl85]

Wow, 60 pages is way too long.
Given that prologues in general are a bit of a button issue these days anything more than 15 - 20 pages would be pushing it. And that is assuming that the prologue is 1. Essential and relevant to the introduction of the story and 2. Is interesting enough to hold the attention of the multitudes who will likely put it down after a page and a half of half a mediocre prologue...

I've been debating the whole prologue issue myself lately.... So many opinions... So very frustrating

 

[Anders Ämting]

I've been debating the whole prologue issue myself lately.... So many opinions... So very frustrating

I don't really get it, personally. If your story needs a prologue, it needs a prologue. I don't normally use them, but the story I'm working on now has a prologue because I felt it required one.

So, what's to debate?

 

[JCFarnham]

I don't really get it, personally. If your story needs a prologue, it needs a prologue. I don't normally use them, but the story I'm working on now has a prologue because I felt it required one.

So, what's to debate?

There are some misguided people out there who, upon seeing just the word prologue, will skip it. Doesn't matter if it's written well or not, on to chapter one they go. I always hope that it doesn't happen, but I've heard plenty of people say something to this effect.

With that in mind then, putting anything important in your prologue is a risk, right? I hate that it's true, but some people do hate them that much.

I've taken to the advice that, if I ever write a prologue for something, I won't title it "prologue" up-front. I'd feel awful having to trick people to read somerthing, but then again it's better than some moron skipping it and ruining their enjoyment of my hard work.

 

[MadMadys]

With that in mind then, putting anything important in your prologue is a risk, right? I hate that it's true, but some people do hate them that much.
.

If you include nothing important in your prologue then why have it at all?

I always thought of people that skip a prologue as thinking they know the author's story better than the author from the get go. If the author chose to do it, whether as an info-dump or framing device or whatever, as a reader I give that author enough trust to read what they have regardless of what its titled. If someone doesn't like prologues then they can just never include one in their stories and be happy with that. To begrudge others for something as minor as including one seems just silly and petty to me, but that is just my opinion on the matter. All of this is.

As for length, 60 does strike me as being on the excessive side of things. Personally, I don't do prologues but for the one story I outlined that had one, it was just a couple pages to sort of 'set the scene' of things. A prologue that is as long, or longer than, a chapter might as well be one, I would think,

 

[Anders Ämting]

With that in mind then, putting anything important in your prologue is a risk, right?

...But that's the only reason to use a prologue in the first place!

 

[atkogirl85]

I don't really get it, personally. If your story needs a prologue, it needs a prologue. I don't normally use them, but the story I'm working on now has a prologue because I felt it required one.

So, what's to debate?

What's not to debate? :frown2::frown2:

Actually my debate is totally self inflicted by myself. I have a prologue which is pretty vital to my story and characters which I was quite happy with... Now I am second guessing myself as to whether I could include the same information and feeling by referencing parts of the prologue throughout the story.

I think the debate of prologues these days is about 10% - Choice/preference 20%- necessity and 70% - insecurity / influence based on public opinion and the ever-looming 'Do's and Don'ts'....

 

[Leif Notae]

It's simple. A prologue is meant to open for a "weak" or "normal" protagonist who cannot carry the opening themselves. The prologue is for the villain to star and give the stakes of the story.

Any other prologue is worthless. I don't care if 1000 have to be refreshed. I don't care if ten-thousand nations lived and died before the first chapter started, and I sure as hell don't care if you bury the main idea/concept/thread inside your prologue in hopes I'll read it. If it isn't about the villain giving me the stakes, it is wrong.

 

[Anders Ämting]

It's simple. A prologue is meant to open for a "weak" or "normal" protagonist who cannot carry the opening themselves. The prologue is for the villain to star and give the stakes of the story.

...That's pretty much word for word what I'm doing with my prologue.

Not to say my MC is too weak to carry the opening herself, just I don't think what happens at the end of chapter one makes much sense unless I introduce the villain first.

 

[Zero Angel]

In regards to Sanderson's handling of WoT, Jordan was doing the same thing by the end of his tenure with WoT. If there was ever a time I would heed Steerpike's lead to skip the prologue, it would be in re-readings of Wheel of Time novels.

...But that's the only reason to use a prologue in the first place!

Some people use them as hooks with action/undeveloped characters to allow their first few chapters to be a little more typical "Act I" stuff.

I've always loved prologues and epilogues personally, so I will probably always have them. I use them to set-up the story from a POV that is at least a little alien/removed from the main POVs of the book or a little outside of the story but is directly relevant to the story.

For instance, in my prologue to the sequel of The Throne of Ao, I set up a major character for Book 3 and add some moral/emotional issues for the "good" protagonist while doing so, I launch a character arc of a secondary protagonist violently, I start a war, and I wrap up one of the loose ends of Book I in such a way that it's completely unraveled and ready for action. Then Chapter 1 is the start of the "main" storyline.

In this way, although the information is extremely relevant and interesting, with the exception of the unraveled loose end, a reader can reasonably go into the book without it (although I do not recommend it).

Although I don't feel that you you have to cave to peer pressure and avoid a prologue entirely, I definitely recommend finding some other way to communicate the information in addition to the prologue.

 

[Leif Notae]

For instance, in my prologue to the sequel of The Throne of Ao, I set up a major character for Book 3 and add some moral/emotional issues for the "good" protagonist while doing so, I launch a character arc of a secondary protagonist violently, I start a war, and I wrap up one of the loose ends of Book I in such a way that it's completely unraveled and ready for action. Then Chapter 1 is the start of the "main" storyline.

So why not use this as your main story instead of wedging it into a prologue not many people would read? At first blush, it sounds like you have the basis for something interesting that can carry out a novel itself.

And yes, burn all your prologues and epilogues. Even in a series, it is overdone.

 

[Leif Notae]

...That's pretty much word for word what I'm doing with my prologue.

Not to say my MC is too weak to carry the opening herself, just I don't think what happens at the end of chapter one makes much sense unless I introduce the villain first.

Is your MC wielding a chainsaw or a demonic blade and dispatching baddies at every turn? Is she tossing fireballs and showing her inherent strength? If not, she is a "weak" character. She doesn't have the "strength" in normal life to lead the show. It isn't a reflection on her character, but her abilities.

 

[Zero Angel]

So why not use this as your main story instead of wedging it into a prologue not many people would read? At first blush, it sounds like you have the basis for something interesting that can carry out a novel itself.

And yes, burn all your prologues and epilogues. Even in a series, it is overdone.

Because they're the--wait for it--words before the start of the main storyline of the book proper. They also occur chronologically before Chapter 1.

I always liked the idea of a Chapter Zero

 

[Steerpike]

The reason I ask is due to a review of the last Wheel of Time novel where they stated the prologue was over 60 pages long.

Sanderson is just keeping with the style of lengthy prologues Robert Jordan established for that series, as near as I can tell. They're all been pretty long for a number of books now.

 

[FatCat]

I always liked the idea of a Chapter Zero

I wonder, have there been any books where the chapters are arranged chronologically? For instance, if there is a flashback, then you'd go from chapter 18 to chapter.....-4!

 

[Zero Angel]

I wonder, have there been any books where the chapters are arranged chronologically? For instance, if there is a flashback, then you'd go from chapter 18 to chapter.....-4!

I've heard of this before, and there are a few that use inventive sequences. For instance, "The Curious Case of the Dog in the Night-Time" has its chapters go by prime numbers.