How long is too long for a prologue?

[Leif Notae]

Because they're the--wait for it--words before the start of the main storyline of the book proper. They also occur chronologically before Chapter 1.

I always liked the idea of a Chapter Zero

That doesn't make it a good story choice, and you would be undermining your story structure by doing so. Again, i ask, what is to prevent you from putting this inside the novel itself or making a new novel (besides the "artistic" desire, since that doesn't exist)?

Sanderson is just keeping with the style of lengthy prologues Robert Jordan established for that series, as near as I can tell. They're all been pretty long for a number of books now.

Well, considering there were four prologues in The Way of Kings, I doubt it was to "match" Jordan.

 

[PaulineMRoss]

Prologues are traditional in fantasy, so why ever not, if it feels right? The author is the final (and only) arbiter of what properly should, or should not, be in their book. And honestly, a reader has to be pretty daft to skip over the very first lines of the book, just because they're labelled 'Prologue' rather than 'Chapter 1' ;-)

Having said that, there are (IMO) good prologues and bad prologues. A good prologue is something that is properly outside the main flow of the narrative - a defining incident from the protagonist's childhood, a critical piece of world history, or yes, the villain in mustache-twirling mode. A bad prologue is put there solely to start things off with a bang, or to dangle some distant carrot in front of the reader - keep reading, folks, and look, you'll get all this lovely action, or mystery revealed. It's as if the author doesn't trust the reader to keep going without some bribery. I know lots of people love the prologue to 'A Game of Thrones', but to my mind it epitomises all the worst aspects of prologues - characters who are immediately killed, instant blood-bespattered action and a mysterious peril which isn't seen again for umpteen hundred pages.

Sorry, rant over.

 

[Steerpike]

I've passed over plenty of books once I see there is a prologue, and by 'passed over' I mean put back on the shelf and bought something else. I'll buy them with prologues, but it's an extra hurdle to be overcome in terms of getting me to select that book. Once I've bought the book, I have no problem skipping the prologue, though I'll usually give the author a little bit of time to sell me on the idea, even though the author herself knows very well she started the book somewhere other than at the beginning, which is why she had to employ the label 'prologue' in the first place.

If the prologue sucks, as so many seem to, or if the book doesn't seem to hold up without it, I don't have a problem throwing the book in the trash and moving on to the next book in my to-read pile, which is enormous as it is. I don't lack for things to read, so having skipped a specific book or even a specific author doesn't bother me.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Is your MC wielding a chainsaw or a demonic blade and dispatching baddies at every turn? Is she tossing fireballs and showing her inherent strength? If not, she is a "weak" character. She doesn't have the "strength" in normal life to lead the show. It isn't a reflection on her character, but her abilities.

Technically speaking, the first thing she does when she ends up in a dangerous situation is to go violently insane and rip a guys arm off. So it's not that she herself is weak so much as she is living a rather peaceful live and is unaware of her strenght.

Also, the main reason I'm using a prologue is actually pacing. See, I make the prologue a part of chapter one proper, but then I would have to jam it in somewhere in the middle between scenes I use for introducing the MC. I don't like how that would pace, and it feels much more natural to put it right at the start. And since it's much shorter than a chapter, making it a prologue makes more sense.

 

[Zero Angel]

That doesn't make it a good story choice, and you would be undermining your story structure by doing so. Again, i ask, what is to prevent you from putting this inside the novel itself or making a new novel (besides the "artistic" desire, since that doesn't exist)?

And style (artistic design) isn't a thing?

I'd only be undermining the story structure to people unwilling to give my story the benefit of my own manner of writing it. If you don't want to read the stories I write because there are prologues, then don't read them. Honestly, the entire anti-prologue thing is something I will never understand.

How is it any different than saying you're against Chapter 8? If you're against Chapter 8s and a major development comes up in CH8 that you miss, have I undermined my story structure or was that the reader that skipped the chapter's doing?

I can understand being against "bad prologues", but if you change the label to "Chapter 1" instead of "Prologue", then it would just be a bad Chapter 1. Whatever.

By artistic design in my main series, I have been doing a parallel between the prologues and epilogues, giving them the same chapter titles and having similar themes involved, but again, they are "prologues" and "epilogues" because they are the words before and the words after. The main storyline has either not fully started or has already been wrapped up. Instead, they are a bridge between books or between the "real world" and the fantasy world I created. If you want to jump off the bridge, then don't complain when you get wet.

Are yins against interlude chapters as well? What if instead of calling them interlude chapters, we just title them with the non-major character's name they contain? Side stories are off the table too? Wait, I know, how about the next time someone wants to write a book they just ask you what to do and do what you think is best

Do yins fast forward the opening sequence in a TV show or movie--the part that is before the credits?

The only thing I dislike are openings that are a fast forward and then the beginning starts with "24 hours earlier..." or something along those lines. But again, that is a personal preference. It's a strike against, but not something that I am going to avoid until the author/writer gives me a reason to put down the work that is something more substantial than a relatively minor stylistic choice.

I just don't understand.

 

[Steerpike]

It's quite different from Chapter 8. And also different from a bad Chapter 1. Prologues are often bad because the writer is forcing it onto a story that doesn't need it. Chapter 1 is fine as an opening, but the writer has in his head some idea that he's got this backstory or other cool thing he needs to tell the reader about before he gets to the story. The comparison to a bad Chapter 8 or even a bad 1st Chapter overlooks the reasons that so many prologues are bad to begin with.

 

[Zero Angel]

It's quite different from Chapter 8. And also different from a bad Chapter 1. Prologues are often bad because the writer is forcing it onto a story that doesn't need it. Chapter 1 is fine as an opening, but the writer has in his head some idea that he's got this backstory or other cool thing he needs to tell the reader about before he gets to the story. The comparison to a bad Chapter 8 or even a bad 1st Chapter overlooks the reasons that so many prologues are bad to begin with.

So you're against bad prologues and because they're so commonly bad no one should do them anymore. A valid position, but telling people to not write prologues will result in impressionable people saying it's Chapter 1 but still writing it as a prologue. Personally, my prologues/epilogues nearly always involve main characters but I put them in prologues/epilogues because, yes, there is some backstory or wrap-up-story that I want to convey in chronological order. I don't think that's a bad thing, but I am biased.

 

[Steerpike]

I don't recall saying no one should do them anymore. People should write what they want to write. I only responded because of statements in this thread implying that a reader is somehow doing something wrong by skipping one or refusing to buy a book with some long, drawn-out prologue in it. Just as I am the best judge of what my story need when I am writing it, I'm also the best judge of what I do or do not want to read when I'm a reader.

 

[Zero Angel]

I don't recall saying no one should do them anymore. People should write what they want to write. I only responded because of statements in this thread implying that a reader is somehow doing something wrong by skipping one or refusing to buy a book with some long, drawn-out prologue in it. Just as I am the best judge of what my story need when I am writing it, I'm also the best judge of what I do or do not want to read when I'm a reader.

Gah, mixed you up with Leif.

In fact, I think your reading method is probably MORE tolerant than mine. If a prologue is bad and I can't get past it, then I put the book down, not skip to CH1 to see if it improves.

Maybe it's naive of me to think that authors that are able to write are able to handle the prologue weapon effectively as well and I should give them a second chance in the bona fide CH 1.

 

[Jamber]

I'm ruthless at reading prologues too, but have to say I love a good one — punchy, cool and if possible a cliffhanger, setting up the stakes and the chronological context of the quest/drama to come. I dislike reading about characters I'm not going to meet or care for in the main story, but if the prologue is dramatic enough (a pure hook, in fact), and if it sets up the terms of the story I'm about to read, I'm happy it's there.

A long prologue is something else again; it seems to need a more thorough sense of character, setting, mood etc — and the risk is readers won't want to switch heads when the 'real' story starts. (I know I'm easily annoyed when I've made that kind of investment in a narrative.)

For me, if the choice is between revealing some massively important earlier-era event through dialogue and revealing it through a smart, snappy prologue, when writing fantasy I'd go the prologue. But always consider taking it out when reviewing the book... just in case it's something nobody misses.

Just my little thought, for what it's worth.
Jamber

 

[Mari]

I have not read through all of the other comments, just the start of the thread. I think 60 pages is too long. I think most of the time, the background info can be woven into the story.

 

[Mari]

I am not crazy about prologues either. I agree with BWFoster78.