How much violence is too much?

[A. E. Lowan]

Good stuff, Azul. Keep it up. I think it's going to be fantastic and you are working so hard to meet your characters and your readers halfway at the very least.

Also, when you're ready to keep digging, there's a whole galaxy of chatter about writing diversely and reaching beyond the common narrative. This is one of the biggest and is well respected, not to mention the articles run a little on the shorter so they're easier to digest. There's bigger out there, but I think you'll like this.

The Mary Sue

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

My rule of thumb for this type of stuff when I bother writing it, same goes for 'love' scenes.
Only go as far as you would feel comfortable reading/watching yourself.
Also as long as you're clever with execution you don't even need most of it to be on screen as it were.

I feel the same way about swearing, even though I personally do not swear much. My characters are not me. If I feel like they'd swear in the moment I let em.
I still try to reserve it for bigger moments (unless they've got that sorta personality where it works) but I like to let my characters be themselves.

 

[Azul-din]

Good stuff, Azul. Keep it up. I think it's going to be fantastic and you are working so hard to meet your characters and your readers halfway at the very least.

Also, when you're ready to keep digging, there's a whole galaxy of chatter about writing diversely and reaching beyond the common narrative. This is one of the biggest and is well respected, not to mention the articles run a little on the shorter so they're easier to digest. There's bigger out there, but I think you'll like this.

The Mary Sue

thank you for this,, I'll have a look

 

[Death]

I agree with Mad Swede. Violence and combat is an essential part of the story, but it is important to weave in other elements, like royalty, politics

 

[JBCrowson]

Her mother, who was dying, made a gesture that was interpreted as naming the MC as queen. She was immediately challenged according to tradition and managed to kill her much larger adversary. Then the brother of that challenger followed her to the human world and she kills him. Then she realizes that the regents she had left behind, so she could come to the human world to become a writer, were determined that she should die so as to leave them in power. So they sent an assassin. He didn't succeed.

based on that it seems like the killing is integral to the story, so not excessive in my view. I think in our world we've moved from having to kill each other face to face to being able to do it remotely by missiles and drones. As you describe I believe that makes it easier to both order and carry out, compared to looking the slain in the eye as their life ends.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

How much is not enough!? Blood lust, blood lust, blood lust!

Sorry, one of those days, heh heh. Pity my characters.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

How much is not enough!? Blood lust, blood lust, blood lust!

Sorry, one of those days, heh heh. Pity my characters.

Blood makes the grass grow. Rah rah rah!

 

[Aldarion]

There is no "measure" for violence.

IMO; too much violence is when violence starts being included for the sake of violence. Warhammer 40k for example is extremely violent setting, but I don't see that as "too much" violence because it is part of the setting, part of the message that things are going from bad to worse.

On the other hand, Rings of Power have too much violence... yes, they have far less violence than Warhammer 40k stories do, but most of violence in RoP is pointless. THAT is the problem.

Well, that, and the fact that Rings of Power themselves are pointless.

 

[Finchbearer]

There is no "measure" for violence.

IMO; too much violence is when violence starts being included for the sake of violence. Warhammer 40k for example is extremely violent setting, but I don't see that as "too much" violence because it is part of the setting, part of the message that things are going from bad to worse.

On the other hand, Rings of Power have too much violence... yes, they have far less violence than Warhammer 40k stories do, but most of violence in RoP is pointless. THAT is the problem.

Well, that, and the fact that Rings of Power themselves are pointless.

Are you talking about the series? I didn’t think there was too much violence.

 

[Aldarion]

Are you talking about the series? I didn’t think there was too much violence.

The series, yes.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Huh, I didn't see RoP as being violent, while on the whole, I'm pretty neutral on the series as a viewer.

 

[Azul-din]

I agree with Mad Swede. Violence and combat is an essential part of the story, but it is important to weave in other elements, like royalty, politics

You'd approve, then, of the section I'm now struggling with; the MC is seeking inspiration for her novel and realizes she has no idea what life is like for the lower classes in her Homeworld. So she asks a criminal from her world for the low down on what really goes on in the part of her kingdom called Lower Town. She discovers a restrictive and ossified guild system that strangles creativity and results in the majority having to work as servants or turn to crime in order to survive. She's going to be busy when she returns to her kingdom, never mind how the novel turns out. Here's how that part will go, sort of.

Amy shook her head. 'Let's assume for the moment that you survive long enough to go back,' she said. ' Or here's a better way to explain the way things are there. Imagine that you were born in an Artisan's household in Lower Town. One of, say, five children. Now, every occupation has its Guild, people who make the rules. You have to be born into a Guild, you can't just decide, well my family are butchers but I would rather be a builder. You have to be born into that particular Guild. So, let's say your parents pick one of you five to carry on the family business. What happens to the other four?'

Sylvie licked the grease from one talon to give herself time to think. 'I suppose they help out,' she said finally.

'Help out?' Amy's eyes narrowed and she spat the words, 'you mean spend your life working for your brother or sister? Or maybe you can't stomach that? You can hire out to one of the Great Houses as a servant ,of course. 'Yes, my lord, no my lord, of course I don't mind if you lift my tail when no one's looking, my Lord...' Amy bared her stubs of fangs and hissed with contempt.

Sylvie recoiled from her intensity. 'There must be other things you could do...' she began tentatively

'If you want a life of your own? Why, of course, you can turn thief.' Amy's voice was bitterly mocking. 'Dangerous work of course. Or hire out as an assassin. Someone in the Great Houses is always trying to get rid of a rival. No guild for those occupations although I suppose someday someone will invent one.'

'And then of course, there's always the possibility of being caught,' Amy went on before Sylvie had a chance to answer, 'and turned over to the Silent Sisters, to be maimed and sent here, unable to return. That's life in Lower Town, your majesty, try putting that in your precious book...'

 

[Aldarion]

Huh, I didn't see RoP as being violent, while on the whole, I'm pretty neutral on the series as a viewer.

I wasn't talking about violence.

I was talking about pointless violence.

Warhammer 40k, Silmarillion, etc. are far more violent than Rings of Power... yet that violence helps advance the story, build the character, build the setting, or any combination of those.

Violence in Rings of Power? It does absolutely nothing of that, it is simply there for the "cool" factor. Inheritance Cycle by Paolini is another example of pointless violence.

And that is my point: relatively little violence can be "too much" if it is not integrated well into the story... on the other hand, a well-done bloodbath may well feel as "just enough".

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I wasn't talking about violence.

I was talking about pointless violence.

Warhammer 40k, Silmarillion, etc. are far more violent than Rings of Power... yet that violence helps advance the story, build the character, build the setting, or any combination of those.

Violence in Rings of Power? It does absolutely nothing of that, it is simply there for the "cool" factor. Inheritance Cycle by Paolini is another example of pointless violence.

And that is my point: relatively little violence can be "too much" if it is not integrated well into the story... on the other hand, a well-done bloodbath may well feel as "just enough".

"The Kingsmen." The fight at the church. Perfection. Also REALLY NSFW, don't click unless you're ready.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Hmmm, seems it will come down to a personal definition. I think of John Wick as stupid violence, while my brother-in-law loves them. But, I haven't watched RoP with intense interest at all, more as a background noise, heh heh. Part of this will be the medium for the entertainment. I wouldn't read Warhammer, not because of violence, but because... it's warhammer. Never got into the game, so why bother? So, I can't really judge, but I guarantee there are people who find it "too violent." My books are too violent/gory for some, but not for others. It is what it is.

I wasn't talking about violence.

I was talking about pointless violence.

Warhammer 40k, Silmarillion, etc. are far more violent than Rings of Power... yet that violence helps advance the story, build the character, build the setting, or any combination of those.

Violence in Rings of Power? It does absolutely nothing of that, it is simply there for the "cool" factor. Inheritance Cycle by Paolini is another example of pointless violence.

And that is my point: relatively little violence can be "too much" if it is not integrated well into the story... on the other hand, a well-done bloodbath may well feel as "just enough".

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Without context, I'll put that into the category of "stupid violence" which can be entertaining but is more often... Meh. I'm old and jaded having watched thousands of movies while studying screenwriting, so I'm a tough sell.

Give me A Clockwork Orange and Natural Born Killers.

"The Kingsmen." The fight at the church. Perfection. Also REALLY NSFW, don't click unless you're ready.

 

[Ban]

Hmmm, seems it will come down to a personal definition. I think of John Wick as stupid violence, while my brother-in-law loves them. But, I haven't watched RoP with intense interest at all, more as a background noise, heh heh. Part of this will be the medium for the entertainment. I wouldn't read Warhammer, not because of violence, but because... it's warhammer. Never got into the game, so why bother? So, I can't really judge, but I guarantee there are people who find it "too violent." My books are too violent/gory for some, but not for others. It is what it is.

You say this as if stupid things cannot also be enjoyable. Twenty fellows running after a ball while two waddle around in their goal sounds stupid on paper, but I sure do watch it whenever one of those teams wears sufficient amounts of orange.

No, wait, I see I am too late. An additional comment succeeded the one I responded to. Alas.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Ah, but I said stupid can be entertaining... just see Young Frankenstein, heh heh. Pure genius and stupid as hell at the same time.

 

[Finchbearer]

I’ve nearly finished the Vikings series which makes Rings of Power feel like I’m watching My Little Pony.

Anyway, I didn’t think there was too much heedless violence in the series, I actually thought that it sometimes felt positively medieval - in all the best ways.

Episode six was the best where there is an epic fight against the orcs and all the s**t hits the proverbial fan.

This article gives it a good summary (spoiler alert)

‘Rings of Power’ Episode 6 Recap: ‘Udûn’ is the Darkest, Bloodiest and Best Episode Yet

 

[Aldarion]

Hmmm, seems it will come down to a personal definition. I think of John Wick as stupid violence, while my brother-in-law loves them. But, I haven't watched RoP with intense interest at all, more as a background noise, heh heh. Part of this will be the medium for the entertainment. I wouldn't read Warhammer, not because of violence, but because... it's warhammer. Never got into the game, so why bother? So, I can't really judge, but I guarantee there are people who find it "too violent." My books are too violent/gory for some, but not for others. It is what it is.

Stupid violence can be enjoyable if it is either a) entertaining or b) used to tell the story.

John Wick is the second case, I think. Warhammer 40k does both, and usually does it well.

RE: Warhammer, I never got into the game either, but... Holy Roman Empire IN SPACE! That was enough of a reason for me to start reading the books. If you are interested at all, I'd recommend Ciaphas Cain books as a start.

I’ve nearly finished the Vikings series which makes Rings of Power feel like I’m watching My Little Pony.

Anyway, I didn’t think there was too much heedless violence in the series, I actually thought that it sometimes felt positively medieval - in all the best ways.

Episode six was the best where there is an epic fight against the orcs and all the s**t hits the proverbial fan.

This article gives it a good summary (spoiler alert)

‘Rings of Power’ Episode 6 Recap: ‘Udûn’ is the Darkest, Bloodiest and Best Episode Yet

Only thing "medieval" about Rings of Power was the amount of headache it gave me.

One day I'll be doing an episode-by-episode complaint series on all the mistakes in the Rings of Power, be it lore mistakes or historical mistakes. I am NOT looking forward to it.

In the meantime:

Collections: Why Rings of Power’s Middle Earth Feels Flat

This week we’re going to take a look at the worldbuilding of Amazon Studio’s Rings of Power from a historical realism perspective. I think it is no great secret that Rings of Power broa…

acoup.blog

Collections: The Nitpicks of Power, Part I: Exploding Forges

This week we’re going to return to Amazon’s Rings of Power, as promised in the first post there were a plethora of smaller believably and realism issues with in the show that I wanted t…

acoup.blog

Collections: The Nitpicks of Power, Part II: Falling Towers

This is the second part of our look at many of the smaller issues of historical realism in Amazon’s Rings of Power, following on our more substantive discussion of the major worldbuilding pro…

acoup.blog

Collections: The Nitpicks of Power, Part III: That Númenórean Charge

This is the third part of our three part (I, II, III) look at many of the smaller issues of historical realism in Amazon’s Rings of Power, following up our mode the major worldbuilding proble…

acoup.blog