This article is fascinating. Maybe a little inflammatory, but she makes some good points and I found it entertaining.
I hate Strong Female Characters
I hate Strong Female Characters
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I Hate Strong Female Characters
- Thread starter A. E. Lowan
- Start date
I think she makes good points, viewing it from what she means by "strong." I tend to follow Chuck Wendig's view, and I take strong to mean complex, well developed, multi-faceted, or whatever. I think Buffy is a good example of that kind of female character. But there are tons of stories about the badass "strong" female who is one-dimensional.
C
Chessie
Guest
Very interesting. I like her points a lot. Thanks for sharing!
Hmmm...
'one woman on a team of five boys'...guilty as charged here. Doctor Menendez is the sole major female character in Labyrinth, part of a group of five. But...she's also older than any three of the others put together. She knows a few nasty spells useful in a fight, but her primary inclination is scholarship.
Theodora, now...One of two girls on a team of four, and the actual leader of the bunch...kinda-sorta. She's smart and educated, but by no means is she an amazonian warrior. She's also not a sorceress or even much of a rogue, though she is a bit of a snoop.
'one woman on a team of five boys'...guilty as charged here. Doctor Menendez is the sole major female character in Labyrinth, part of a group of five. But...she's also older than any three of the others put together. She knows a few nasty spells useful in a fight, but her primary inclination is scholarship.
Theodora, now...One of two girls on a team of four, and the actual leader of the bunch...kinda-sorta. She's smart and educated, but by no means is she an amazonian warrior. She's also not a sorceress or even much of a rogue, though she is a bit of a snoop.
Feo Takahari
Auror
I'm curious to see whether or not this thread ultimately gets locked.
This is something I've mentioned in a few other threads--women as cowards (who aren't portrayed as adorably childlike)! Women as tyrants (who don't wear black leather bustiers and use blood magic)! Women as geeks (who don't turn pretty in the span of a montage)! Give us all the women, everywhere!
This is something I've mentioned in a few other threads--women as cowards (who aren't portrayed as adorably childlike)! Women as tyrants (who don't wear black leather bustiers and use blood magic)! Women as geeks (who don't turn pretty in the span of a montage)! Give us all the women, everywhere!
Asterisk
Troubadour
Thank you for sharing this. I'm writing one female character against an entire world of men (literally), and this was extremely helpful. I love her points, even though when I first read the title of the article, I was enraged. 
The Dark One
Auror
I echo Feo's thoughts and wonder how long before the thread is locked? Maybe we should start a book? I'll guess...42 posts.
I have never written a book with a female lead character, but I would claim that all my characters are strong because they all have an impact on the plot. If they don't they get cut (with the obvious exception of cannon fodder...by which I mean all tertiary characters necessary for human impact on primary and secondary characters).
I remember when I was about 19, a close friend (now dead, alas) would refer to me as bisexual. He was not referring to my bedroom inclinations, he was referring to the fact that he perceived me as having both male and female characteristics (no, not physical characteristics).
If he was right, then that would be an amazing gift for a writer. I wouldn't dare claim that I write good women...but I would claim that all my characters affect the plot. And for me, that's all you can realistically aim for.
I have never written a book with a female lead character, but I would claim that all my characters are strong because they all have an impact on the plot. If they don't they get cut (with the obvious exception of cannon fodder...by which I mean all tertiary characters necessary for human impact on primary and secondary characters).
I remember when I was about 19, a close friend (now dead, alas) would refer to me as bisexual. He was not referring to my bedroom inclinations, he was referring to the fact that he perceived me as having both male and female characteristics (no, not physical characteristics).
If he was right, then that would be an amazing gift for a writer. I wouldn't dare claim that I write good women...but I would claim that all my characters affect the plot. And for me, that's all you can realistically aim for.
Dreamer
CupofJoe
Myth Weaver
In films, women come off badly? Only there to be kissed and/or rescued?
Big shock! Films are sexist...
When a studio is laying down $150+ million for it's one big movie of the season it needs, it demands, success.
No one at that point is going to take a risk. They may tweak formulas around the edges but they are going to keep the formula they think works.
And I'm fairly certain that the formula is really one question “Would a fourteen year old boy like this?” [If you want nudity and gore it is “Would a eighteen year old boy like this?”]...
I would say that the apparent lack of success in this summer blockbusters should be proof that they haven't got the right formula any more.
There are a great female characters out there in books, TV, and even Film but not usually in the big movies. It isn't right but I can't see it changing any time soon.
I like and agree with Sophia McDougall's seven final statement. They are valid for all characters.
Big shock! Films are sexist...
When a studio is laying down $150+ million for it's one big movie of the season it needs, it demands, success.
No one at that point is going to take a risk. They may tweak formulas around the edges but they are going to keep the formula they think works.
And I'm fairly certain that the formula is really one question “Would a fourteen year old boy like this?” [If you want nudity and gore it is “Would a eighteen year old boy like this?”]...
I would say that the apparent lack of success in this summer blockbusters should be proof that they haven't got the right formula any more.
There are a great female characters out there in books, TV, and even Film but not usually in the big movies. It isn't right but I can't see it changing any time soon.
I like and agree with Sophia McDougall's seven final statement. They are valid for all characters.
Mara Edgerton
Troubadour
Great article. The two points that helped me the most were the discussion on agency as opposed to strength--does the character make things happen?--and the rant against the lone female character in a sea of men who must then represent 'femaleness' (in a way that Richard II never has to represent 'maleness.') Good stuff.
She makes some great points, and I'm sure I've found myself complaining about strong female characters being overplayed at least a few times.
The only thing I'd say, though, is that she mentions a lot of superhero movies, where it's not unreasonable to see "strong" as a stepping stone to preparing an audience for "super." These are characters who are consistently getting closer to being seen as the MCs. I fully believe the market is ripe for a female superhero character because of some of these characters in that genre.
But she's spot on about wanting to move towards a 1:1 ratio and talking about the need for a female character to epitomize certain traits because she's the only one there. I would say that's something most storytellers could take an active role improving on without having to compromise anything you're doing with your story.
The only thing I'd say, though, is that she mentions a lot of superhero movies, where it's not unreasonable to see "strong" as a stepping stone to preparing an audience for "super." These are characters who are consistently getting closer to being seen as the MCs. I fully believe the market is ripe for a female superhero character because of some of these characters in that genre.
But she's spot on about wanting to move towards a 1:1 ratio and talking about the need for a female character to epitomize certain traits because she's the only one there. I would say that's something most storytellers could take an active role improving on without having to compromise anything you're doing with your story.
Gurkhal
Auror
Very interesting article that I agree with in some places and disagree with in other.
Daichungak
Minstrel
The article has some really good points but I think a lot of them are just as applicable to male characters. Personally, I don’t care at all if the character is a male, female, human, elf or lobster as long as they have depth and personality.
Guy
Inkling
I think the best way to avoid these pitfalls is to think in terms of the individual character rather than demographics. When writing I don't ask myself "would a woman do/say this?" I ask myself "what would this individual do?"To hell with demographics. Be true to the character.
Best way to do it every time. Not sure why you see so many "what would a woman do in this situation" threads on writing forums, as though they're all automatons who react identically in every situation. The character is a person, with established characteristics that you've set for them, so just follow that.
I think there are instances when that question "what would a woman do?" has merit, but they are few. There are obvious differences between men and women, on a broad & general level. I agree though that characters should be treated individually as "what would this person do?" That's far more accurate than distilling a decision on character down to gender alone.
wordwalker
Auror
So true. I'd say that's exactly the point of the piece, that real writing should just be true to that character and not assume she has to react "as a woman"-- or as strong, or In Distress or any other shortcut.
saellys
Inkling
I had to read a cached version, as I can only assume because New Statesman's servers have been overwhelmed by the demand for this excellent article. This was a great summary of why this term is so, well, weak, and so easily twisted to mean whatever writers want it to mean. (River Song! Denna! Arwen! Blergh!) I especially loved the comparison to Holmes and Richard II.
On that note, here's an article you might enjoy about Mako Mori inspiring a new benchmark for female characters in that dreaded "one girl in a team of five boys" situation. I have seen a small amount of Mako-bashing on the Internet and a huge amount of Mako-love and Mako-defense, which warms my heart because I thought she was just about the raddest thing in Pacific Rim, and there was some backlash afterward saying she wasn't "strong enough," which is just dumb.
As for approaching things in a "what would a woman do in this situation" mindset, that only works if the world you've built has prescribed gender roles that are fundamentally unequal, and even then the answer varies. Sansa Stark, Catelyn Stark, and Cersei Lannister fulfill their roles in outwardly "satisfactory" ways. Arya Stark, Brienne of Tarth, and Maege Mormont reject their roles and fulfill those traditionally assigned to men instead. The beautiful thing is that each of those women makes their decisions in completely unique ways, because they're people, not feminine templates shoehorned into a misogynistic world.
On that note, here's an article you might enjoy about Mako Mori inspiring a new benchmark for female characters in that dreaded "one girl in a team of five boys" situation. I have seen a small amount of Mako-bashing on the Internet and a huge amount of Mako-love and Mako-defense, which warms my heart because I thought she was just about the raddest thing in Pacific Rim, and there was some backlash afterward saying she wasn't "strong enough," which is just dumb.
As for approaching things in a "what would a woman do in this situation" mindset, that only works if the world you've built has prescribed gender roles that are fundamentally unequal, and even then the answer varies. Sansa Stark, Catelyn Stark, and Cersei Lannister fulfill their roles in outwardly "satisfactory" ways. Arya Stark, Brienne of Tarth, and Maege Mormont reject their roles and fulfill those traditionally assigned to men instead. The beautiful thing is that each of those women makes their decisions in completely unique ways, because they're people, not feminine templates shoehorned into a misogynistic world.
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I read this article by Anna Gunn who plays Skyler White, main character Walter White's wife, on Breaking Bad. I thought this may be relevant to the discussion because Skyler is widely hated by a community of fans. Apparently, the hatred of the character has leaked over into hatred of the actress. I find this par for the course when it comes to the internet, but I've always found Skyler to be a reasonable character that doesn't back down from adversity. She doesn't take the downward spiral of Walter lying down. It seems other people think she's a "shrieking, hypocritically harpy" (a quote from one such fan).
Worth a read. May contain some spoilers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/opinion/i-have-a-character-issue.html?smid=tw-nytimes
Worth a read. May contain some spoilers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/opinion/i-have-a-character-issue.html?smid=tw-nytimes
Feo Takahari
Auror
I'm a bit surprised to see the actress hold up Skyler as strong. I don't watch the show, but a lot of people on Fandom Secrets hate her, and their most frequent complaint is that she's overly weak, failing to stand up to Walt when it counts. (The second-most common is that she's a hypocrite for one reason or another.)
