Introducing a world, need some help

[ZeroKiev]

Hi everybody,

I know this is a bit unorthodox, but here's the deal... I'm a terrible writer, but I have an idea for a trilogy, or at least one very epic novel, but I'm not a good writer. I'm not looking for encouragement to be one. I wanted to very badly but I just can't. I can't whistle either. Seriously, I've been trying my whole life, and all I can make are a few paltry notes. It's the same with me for writing.

My idea is we collaborate to make this into a novel and then hopefully a trilogy (which hopefully gets made into a movie). We split all the loot 50/50. Some naysayers are probably saying right now, "What, *I* do all of the writing and you get half the money?" Yeah that's what I'm saying. I get half of 6 gazillion dollars and you get the other half. After that you can buy a private island and write whatever you want.

Anyway, I apologize for pitching a story idea in the introduction forum. I know it's very uncouth and that I could just make five fluffy posts and put this in the Brainstorming & Planning forums, but that would amount to the same thing anyways. I suppose this a kind of introduction, because the world that's in my head is a part of me and it wants to get out, so maybe I can slip by on a technicality.


This story takes place in a fantasy/medieval-ey/vaguely Tolkienesque world. There are dragons and magic and two protagonists who rise from obscurity to become the hereoes of the land. Stop the presses!!! How original!!! Dragons - magic - egads!!!

I know, I know. To continue, the protagonists are a young boy and a young girl. Maybe 8 or 10 years old. Through the course of the novels (assuming it's a trilogy) they grow to young adulthood.

Perhaps a couple of centuries ago, there were heroes and great deeds, and magic and all sorts of picturesqueness taking place in the world they live in, but now it's kind of stagnating and getting rather dull. How it's gotten that way is a key part of the plot.

The boy, at first, is kind of timid and shy. He's an honest, naive, goodhearted type. The girl lives out in the forest with her grandmother who is a healer. You could call her a witch. Although her grandmother mostly just cures the local people (she's an outsider, but tolerated because of her ability) she has all sorts of books on magic and magical items and can do "real" magic: fire, lightning, necromancy that sort of thing.

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Before I go on, I'd like to say a few more things about this world in a general sense and a bit about how I relate to this story and what I'd like to express through it...

I haven't given the boy or the girl a name yet. In fact I probably haven't even fleshed out half of it although right now it exists as a full plot from beginning to end. I've spent hours and hours in this world, and the more I think about it, the more real it becomes, and the more real it becomes the more frustrating it is not to be able to make it into a novel or a movie, so I've more or less stopped adding to it.

I'd like to mention at this point that there's a lot of subtle metaphor and subtext about the nature of reality in this story. It's way too much to get into here, but there's a lot going on beneath the surface. I love stories with a deeper meaning and better yet with symbols and hidden references.

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Ok, so the girl, although young, has some magical powers. Talking to animals, mind influencing "These aren't the droids you're looking for" type stuff, a bit of telekinesis - that sort of thing. Because she lives with her "witch" grandmother out in the forest she's kind of an outcast. To compensate she's very haughty and superior, but really she's pretty lonely and ends up becoming friends with the boy. I'm skipping a whole lot already but the boy's mother gets sick. To save her he decides to make a very perilous journey to the capital city (medievel castle style) and the girl goes too. There's another reason for their journey which is important, but let's keep moving.

On their journey they meet pixies, gnomes, mermaids, lions, (they can communicate telepathically with animals), various classes of humans, ogres etc. The story is much more fleshed out than this, I'm just drawing the main outline. Oh yeah, dragons are a threat for the entire journey. They're kind of the main antagonist, but of course in his world things aren't always what they seem.

Finally they reach the capital city. We're introduced to the main characters in the Capital and kind of get a preliminary feel for the place and that's the end of Book One.

Book Two

Book Two begins in the Capital. Our two protagonists are now young adults 16-19 or thereabouts. The outlying towns and villages of the kingdom (if it can be called that because it isn't very unified since the dragons came into power) is in a state of decay and stagnation. In comparison to the far away towns and villages like the one our protagonists come from, the Capital is a whole new world. It's an entire city filled with all sorts of people: Nobles, advisors, courtiers, warriors, wise men (wizards), travellers, and common folk of all kinds. As the story progresses it becomes evident that things aren't quite what they seem. There are intrigues and competing factions within the court. Without going into all of the details, the boy learns a bit about magic and goes on a journey to find a teacher to become a dragon slayer, while the girl stays in the city, learns a little about fighting, a lot about magic (she gets lots of cool powers), and is forced to deal with her own psychological issues (she's kind of a psycho, or rather acts like one). In regards to the girl, I find her to be a really interesting character and most certainly not a damsel in distress. All the while our protagonists are trying to stay one step ahead of certain shadowy forces seeking to do them in. This is roughly the first half of the second book.

I could go on and on but I would be giving it away. I think the plot is pretty good, and even more importantly I think the characters, the world they live in is really interesting and unique. Of course I'm biased, but I think this is a story that people are really going to get into. I don't let myself think about it very much because I get sucked in and the world gets bigger and bigger. I need some help in getting it out.

If you or someone you know has the writing skills for this sort of thing, please let me know.


P.S. I know this sounds absolutely nuts. Contact me for more info.

 

[Saigonnus]

Welcome to the scribes!

While it all sounds interesting, and the idea of children as the main protagonists somewhat of a novel idea, I don't really understand the sequence of events within the scheme of the "first book". Couldn't you just get there by riding a horse, flying by dragonback or whatever? Why does the trip from one end of the kingdom to another take the WHOLE first book? What sort of distance are we talking? or what is the reason they can't travel directly there?

I think perhaps if you sat down with the world you have at present and outlined the BASE plotlines A to B to C ect... you may get a better idea of what can be written. Getting to the capital city must be the culmination of the book and the journey there the plotlines, but I think you need to ask yourself a few basic questions about the story. How do they get there? What manner of transportation? What foes rise up to challenge them and how do they meet the challenge? What sort of personality do they protags have beyond their abilities? What challenges beyond enemies do they face? Locations?

 

[CupofJoe]

I see from your location that it says Phnom Penh. A story set in that part of the world using myths and monsters may be refreshing. I can't remember a fantasy story set in that region of the world.
And don't worry, no one every started out as a good writer. That comes with writing [a lot!]...

 

[Steerpike]

You may have a problem getting interest in this, ZeroKiev. For most of us, I think the problem is that we have more ideas than we can possibly write. Convincing someone to put all the time and effort into writing a trilogy, only to split everything with you 50/50, is a hard sell when that same person could just as easily come up with their own idea for a trilogy, write that one, and retain all of the money for their efforts. There's a reason you don't see people getting rich by just thinking up ideas and passing them off to other people. You may be better off hiring a ghost writer.

 

[Butterfly]

Besides... who says you're a bad writer?

 

[ThinkerX]

Almost everybody starts off really bad at writing. You get better at writing by writing.

I would suggest trying your hand at a few short stories in the 'Challenge' subforum before giving up on yourself. Put these short stories in your world. That way you develop world and writing skills BOTH.

A 300,000 word trilogy could take you several years to write. You can bang out a good 3000 word short story over a few evenings.

 

[ZeroKiev]

Thanks for the positive replies. My guts where kind of twisting after I posted all that.

I first started thinking of this story because I wasn't satisfied with the Harry Potter books. No offense intended if any of you happen to be fans. Anybody who can write that many long books and tell a halfway decent story definitely gets respect. In all fairness, the movies that I saw were pretty decent.

As far as the plot and the characters go, I've spent a lot of time thinking about the characters, and a lot of time thinking about the events, plot, details etc of the first and second book. I know it sounds paranoid, but I'm a little afraid that some person looking for story ideas will come across my posts and steal my ideas. I've got a kind of unique idea about the world that the characters inhabit that I haven't seen anywhere else, and just that alone would be a great setting for a story. And then, if I ever get this made into a book or movie, it would be viewed as just a copy of someone else's work. I know that sounds pretty grandiose, lol.

As far as writing it myself goes, I just can't. Years ago I wanted to be an author. Really wanted to be an author. I tried, but when it comes to a writing, I just get tangled up in everything. Like when a character wakes up and has breakfast and dialog and then the next scene and the next and the next. I can see it in my head, but it's the putting it into words and making it a cohesive, flowing whole that gets me. If I could struggle for hours and write just one page a day I'd be thrilled, but the most I can do is two or three pages and then it all gets tangled up.

I could put it into screen play form, and explain verbally to the reader how I see the world and the characters, and if I could actually get somebody capable of getting it made into a movie to read it I'd absolutley do it. I was a *huge* fan of the first Matrix movies and I feel like the Wachowski brothers (or sisters, I guess) would like the idea. Ok, now I'm being grandiose, lol.

One thought that I've just had is that maybe I could tell the whole story in the Showcase forum. That way it would be in a private, yet still sort of public forum, so that if someone rips me off, I'd have sufficient proof, so that I could sue them and be able to make a movie based on my other ideas. Blech, neither a suer or a sue-ee do I hope to ever be!

If I were to do that, I'd have to tell it in kind of a screenplay/verbal kind of way. It wouldn't make for gripping reading, but I think one would be able to see the story more or less as I see it. And who knows, maybe the lore fairy would sprinkle her moldy dust upon me and I'd be able to actually make it into a novel myself. If you think that would be an ok idea please let me know. I really enjoy creating this world. It's such an amazing feeling when the characters and their world start to become real. Hey, that gives me an idea for a story about a boy who discovers a book about a land called Fantasia... oh wait, nevermind.

In any case, thank you so much for the encouraging replies.

 

[MadMadys]

I'll give a reply which I hope you do not take as discouraging but I want you to get a good grasp of things to help alleviate some fears you may have.

To start, don't worry about people stealing your ideas. Why? Because your ideas, and mine, and most everyone else's these days, are not truly original. I'm not saying they are no new takes or permutations to be done but most stories today could easily be tracked down to an earlier ancestor. There have been stories of children coming to age with massive responsibilities and powers before (you mention Harry Potter yourself) and while I am sure there are many twists and unique attributes in your story that you never directly took from someone else, usually everything has been done before. Now don't let yourself think that I am trying to discourage you from developing and continuing with your story. Write it, if you can, and keep going with it. What I am getting at though is don't feel so compelled to hold it close to the chest because you fear someone will snatch it from you. As I'll get into in a second, many writers feel they have lightning in a bottle but that's literally thousands of people. You do yourself a disservice to not try and develop it with outside help (from the wonderful people here on these boards) when you have any problems.

Now I have a little experience with the screenplay business, having proofread a few that have been optioned by major studies. I also had a lunch with an actor (you'd know the name but not super A-list) and a producer who has done a few movies that have gotten Oscar nods (met them through friend-of-a-friend type dealie). Their credits aren't so important as what happened during the lunch at a nice local place. In the 45 minutes we ate we had no less than 8 people come up and try to give the producer their screenplays. Now most of them came near the end (I assumed word spread when they heard about us being there and they rushed to us) and were generally polite. Well, as polite as you can be while you hand over a stack of papers to someone eating a sandwich. The producer took them all graciously but, after they had gone, told me he wouldn't read any of them. I had him elaborate and he goes on to tell me receives hundreds of screenplays in the mail that he never reads. In fact, he setup a fake address that one of his staff is in charge of who reads maybe the first page or a quick treatment before discarding 99% of them (the way he said it I imagined the number was closer to 99.99999999%). I tell him this is slightly discouraging which is acknowledges with a nod but replies, "You must realize that for all their good intentions, most would make Battlefield Earth look like The Godfather." (That's fairly close to what he said though it came out much more riveting from him.) Point is, screenplays are a dime a thousand these days.

I think it would be easier to write a book and get it published then a movie made (a fantasy trilogy, no less). Also, don't think that a screenplay is an easier thing to write, either. Obviously, the same as anything, you can stumble through it but if you have real aspirations for it, to do it well, takes a lot of time. The guys I know spent 4 years writing and one year just trying to sell their screenplay which eventually did get purchased but mostly to avoid legal issues as the studio was coming out with a movie that was very similar to what their screenplay was. So all that time and effort was spent so they could sell a screenplay that will never be made. Now they did get a nice chunk of change but it came with perspective too. Selling that first screenplay, when you have no credits, is extremely hard. The fantasy movies that come out now are often based on best-selling novels or tried and true classics rather than a virgin idea.

As someone mentioned, you could hire a ghost writer and there are people in the movie business that can develop ideas, write treatments and market for you but that'll cost a ton.

My suggestion, after all that horrible stuff I just said, would be to write. I know you say you can't but that's what we're here for. Most of us were either in your shoes or willing to help out in one way or another. As I said, don't worry about spilling the beans about your story because until you actually write it, it's just in your head. Write some short stories to get started that are based in the world you created but maybe not directly tied to your plot, then post them here for us.

I hope this didn't read like a giant downer for you. I only hoped to give some perspective and let you focus on one thing that's attainable. That being the development of your writing skills so you can tell everyone about the wonderful story you've created.

 

[Zireael]

I'll echo what ThinkerX says - start small, but start writing stories set in the world.

Also, I suggest you start a thread in the Worldbuilding section, we could help you work out the details of the world.

 

[saellys]

Another consideration, from someone with collaboration experience: describing exactly what you want in this story to a different writer would take so much time and effort that it would basically be like writing it yourself. It sounds like you're totally in love with the concept, which is great, but I can tell you that it is difficult in the extreme to watch someone else write something you envisioned in its entirety and go in a different direction with it, even in minor details. So difficult that one of my co-writers wrote an article about how to do it without ending up killing each other.

You may as well have a go at refining your ideas and writing them yourself. That way there will be no extra filter between you and your story, and you get to keep a hundred percent of the profit!

 

[ThinkerX]

As far as the plot and the characters go, I've spent a lot of time thinking about the characters, and a lot of time thinking about the events, plot, details etc of the first and second book.

This is good. Means you have a direction to go in.

I know it sounds paranoid, but I'm a little afraid that some person looking for story ideas will come across my posts and steal my ideas. I've got a kind of unique idea about the world that the characters inhabit that I haven't seen anywhere else, and just that alone would be a great setting for a story. And then, if I ever get this made into a book or movie, it would be viewed as just a copy of someone else's work. I know that sounds pretty grandiose, lol.

First, despite what you may think, it is highly unlikely your ideas are original.

Second, ideas are cheap. the real sweat and real work is in the execution the actual writing.

Third, and most importantly, no two or two dozen authors write the same idea the same way. Go read through the 'Iron Pen' entries in the Challenge forum, where contestants are given four items to incorporate in their stories. Look at the sheer range of stories which sprouted from those seeds.

I would strongly suggest you enter the next 'Iron Pen' round, which should be starting this next weekend. So what if you flop? You'll still learn.

 

[ZeroKiev]

Another consideration, from someone with collaboration experience: describing exactly what you want in this story to a different writer would take so much time and effort that it would basically be like writing it yourself. It sounds like you're totally in love with the concept, which is great, but I can tell you that it is difficult in the extreme to watch someone else write something you envisioned in its entirety and go in a different direction with it, even in minor details. So difficult that one of my co-writers wrote an article about how to do it without ending up killing each other. and you get to keep a hundred percent of the profit!

In my excitement I kind of lost sight of that part. When the story first came to me, I realized that if someone else were to write it we'd have to really be on the same wavelength. You're absolutely right, it would be awful for my story to come out differently than I see it.

And that makes me realize what should have been obvious from the start - even if you like the story, it would be kind of a b*tch to write someone else's book. If someone else were to do the writing, they'd have to love this story as much as I do.

I've decided to write a sort of cliff notes summary of my story. I was thinking about the story a couple days ago, and that clinched it. I can't keep it inside in longer. What happens after that, I don't know, but I'm excited. I think it'll be at least ten pages, likely more.

If anyone's interested I could post it, or a link to it, here on the forum.

 

[saellys]

I'm interested! The Showcase section would be a good place to post your treatment!

 

[Nightshade]

How you developed your characters and how you were able to communicate about them shows the creative writer in you.

 

[ThinkerX]

ZeroKiev - If you are still here, you really should consider signing up for the current 'Iron Pen' Challenge story (if Ankari agrees). Still got most of ten days left.

 

[ZeroKiev]

Still here. Even if I weren't pretty busy, I'd still have to give the Iron Pen a miss, at least this time. I tried writing non fiction for Texbroker a while back. I think I might have been making a dollar an hour (I write slooow).

Hopefully I'll start on my summary within the next month or two. I'm hoping that I'll be able to intersperse it with little scenes and descriptions, like excerpts from an actual novel. Maybe easing into it like that will help me to start on writing actual chapters. In any case I'd be happy just to share my story and make it real in a kind of way.

Happy 2013 to everyone out there. Have a prosperous and creative New Year!