Is there a way to 'fix' the Isekai Genre?

[Naruzeldamaster]

An Isekai is a story where a character from an otherwise normal world is transported to another, more fantastical world for the bulk of the story. TLDR To go on some self discovery Journey or confront stuff, sometimes in a quite literal sense (Fighting the big dragon might represent confronting the alcoholic father) etc.

I'm personally in the camp that this plot device can be used well. My gripe with it, only extends to video game movies. Period.
Why does it work so well with something like say, Jumanji, but it bombs worse than Hiroshima when it's something like Monster Hunter?
My personal theory is that there's a lack of compassion for the source material and the studio making the movie just see dollar signs, but if that was the case the Sonic Films (Which are kind of a REVERSE Isekai, the fictional cast are bazinga'd to the non fictional world. Even though elements from the fictional world exist in that version of the real world, like Government United Nations...and yes, that exists.) why did they do so well and were recieved so well by both casual fans and gamers?

The problem with it is they're almost always used as an excuse to explain stuff about the fantastical world to the audience. Which, is fine, if 90% of the audience wasn't fans of the IP the movie was being based on. (who probably know like most of the stuff being explained) The Modern Mario movie was great, but it still wastes so much screen time explaining stuff that doesn't really need to be explained, it could easily just been shown.

 

[Faustinas Avehost]

How about in the realm of original stories? I'm technically writing an iseaki, but just because I thought it was cool (I'd have to explain the scenery and everything anyway, so why not throw in a bewildered girl from Idaho?). I think it's actually working, because the circumstances of the iseaki itself are a big part of the plot. It isn't just "oh no we need a hero! Get out the magic Iseaki Wand!" Do you think something like that would work?

 

[JBCrowson]

How about in the realm of original stories? I'm technically writing an iseaki, but just because I thought it was cool (I'd have to explain the scenery and everything anyway, so why not throw in a bewildered girl from Idaho?). I think it's actually working, because the circumstances of the iseaki itself are a big part of the plot. It isn't just "oh no we need a hero! Get out the magic Iseaki Wand!" Do you think something like that would work?

Transporting a person to a fantasy world gives an excuse for noticing all the ways in which the world is different from TRW. The reader sees it as new at the same time the MC does, which works well. It also allows the MC to see things differently to others in the fantasy world and so find solutions that others would not.

 

[Penpilot]

I don't know if there's anything to "fix" with the genre. It's been around forever. It just wasn't given a name until recently. The Narnia books are in this genre, and their TV and movie translations have been decent. But it's just like any other thing being translated from one medium to another. Sometimes the translations are fantastic. Other times they're not. It's not a problem with the genre itself. It's a problem with translation in general.

How do you please fans and at the same time draw in new fans? For some, they're not able to do that for many different reasons. But for me, it just boils down to write a good story with good writing.

Look at Marvel's Infinity Saga. It'as a Frankenstein of pieces translated from various comic books. There were sweeping changes to characters and story lines in the translations. In some cases so sweeping that what made it onto the screen bore little resemblance to the comic books. There were definitely some hardcore fans who complained, but it's largely considered a success because they wrote and stitched together a good story, with good writing. With good writing they took D and E-list characters and made them A-list heroes around the world.

One of my earliest memories of this genre is with the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon from the 80s. It's been around 40 years since its brief run, but it's still fondly remembered, especially in Brazil.

 

[JBCrowson]

One of my earliest memories of this genre is with the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon from the 80s. It's been around 40 years since its brief run, but it's still fondly remembered, especially in Brazil.

I loved that series even though I didn't play DnD at the time it showed in the UK.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I don't know if there's anything to "fix" with the genre. It's been around forever. It just wasn't given a name until recently. The Narnia books are in this genre, and their TV and movie translations have been decent. But it's just like any other thing being translated from one medium to another. Sometimes the translations are fantastic. Other times they're not. It's not a problem with the genre itself. It's a problem with translation in general.

How do you please fans and at the same time draw in new fans? For some, they're not able to do that for many different reasons. But for me, it just boils down to write a good story with good writing.

Look at Marvel's Infinity Saga. It'as a Frankenstein of pieces translated from various comic books. There were sweeping changes to characters and story lines in the translations. In some cases so sweeping that what made it onto the screen bore little resemblance to the comic books. There were definitely some hardcore fans who complained, but it's largely considered a success because they wrote and stitched together a good story, with good writing. With good writing they took D and E-list characters and made them A-list heroes around the world.

One of my earliest memories of this genre is with the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon from the 80s. It's been around 40 years since its brief run, but it's still fondly remembered, especially in Brazil.

I think that's the thing, with things like Marvel, it's fairly easy to stitch together a good movie, and not have to over explain everything.

The Borderlands movie was kind of Bad, but it wasn't bad because it was an Isekai, it was more just, not like the games it was based on. However, if it WAS an Isekai, I guarantee you there would be riots. Fans of these games practically rioted at the film we got. Video game films + Isekai never mix well at all for some reason. And I do think one of the reasons is not enough compassion for the IP and only seeing dollar signs.

With say Monster Hunter, the reasoning for the Isekai to even happen is dumb, both IN universe and OUT of universe (That director casts his wife as a Mary Sue in every film he makes, I wish I was kidding) and while Monster Hunter isn't amazing story telling ( It basically boils down to 'this monster is being an invasive species, go bonk it for us' but with fancy words and good lore, some of the side missions are quite literally that in universe) it's far better than the Isekai nonsense the studios came up with for the film. The one compliment I see about the film is that they at least got the monster designs right, but that's about it.

The Genre can work, it's been proven with stuff like chronicles of Narnia. But it needs the hands of a tactical sugeon and the brain of a rocket scientist to work, and also involve a well known video game franchise. I honestly don't think we'll get as lucky as we did with the Sonic Movies again in terms of Video game films.

 

[ThinkerX]

When I was doing my initial worldbuilding, there were two issues I wanted to address relevant to this thread.

First, I wanted to account for primitive humans being present on multiple planets.

Second, I wanted to account for why these primitive humans would have magical abilities not present on Earth. I was thinking of crossover characters at the time.

My solution to both issues was the ''ancient aliens,' the beings that snatched members of primitive races and deposited them on various worlds. Later, they genetically increased the psi potential of select members of these races - aka introducing 'magic.'

 

[Diana Silver]

Is there a way to 'fix' the Isekai Genre?

No, I don't think there is a way to fix that genre of stories.

 

[Finchbearer]

I’m sure I am writing at least one Isekai. I’m fine with it.

 

[Prince of Spires]

it's fairly easy to stitch together a good movie

I think this is the heart of the matter. It's not. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many bad movies out there.

Making a good movie is hard.

And it's even worse if you're trying to adapt a work from a different medium. Those fail for a lot of reasons. One is simply that making a good movie is hard. But then, there's also the risk of trying to stay too close to the original which leads to lots of things that worked in one medium that don't work in a movie. Or they fail to understand what made the original great, and they blindly copy the plot-beats without adding the depth the original had.

 

[pmmg]

I think the question is backwards. There is nothing wrong with stories that transport us to a fantasy world, and so it does not need to be fixed.

More broken are perhaps those trying to take it from one medium to another. Perhaps, if we could investigate their process from start to finish we would see where it went wrong. My guess is, it has something to do with those paying for it telling those creating it...uh...where is all this other stuff I think people care about.

 

[Queshire]

I don't know. This thread seems like it only exists to complain about stuff. I don't have a lot of input. =/

 

[Incanus]

I'm wondering about the idea of 'fixing' a genre (or even a sub-genre).

Is that even a thing? Has it been done before? If so, how was it done, and by who?

 

[TheKillerBs]

This is rather interesting for me because I've always considered isekai to specifically be the Japanese subgenre of portal fantasy (with all the associated tropes), rather than being synonymous with it. It seems I was mistaken in my impression

 

[skip.knox]

No genre needs fixing. Bad writing needs fixing, but like the poor, bad writers are always with us. But a genre is neither good nor bad.

As others have said, this magically going to another world has been around forever. At least since the 13th century (I'm thinking here of the German legends about Duke Ernst of Bavaria. Arguably even back to Odysseus.

Nothing to fix; plenty to study.

 

[Diana Silver]

This is rather interesting for me because I've always considered isekai to specifically be the Japanese subgenre of portal fantasy (with all the associated tropes), rather than being synonymous with it. It seems I was mistaken in my impression

This being my viewpoint as well. Isekai is something incredibly specific. Stories in that genre tend to stick to a bunch of very specific tropes that almost always seem to be in there solely for the purpose of conforming to the genre's checklist of tropes. I've never once seen that set of tropes used in a way that felt compelling or engaging to me. That may be my taste or maybe I just haven't found the right isekai story yet. Or maybe conforming to a bunch of obligatory tropes just isn't a recipe for making widely accessable and relatable stories.

Anyway all suggestions above here sound like portal fantasy - which is a lot broader and less restrictive of a term, but it feels like very quickly, you'll no longer be talking about isekai, exactly.

 

[skip.knox]

I'd be interested to see that checklist of tropes. A quick look around the Net revealed some general statements, but not much that would set it apart from portal fantasy more generally. In the "not much" category I saw two items. One, that Isekai is specifically Japanese. So, if it's set in another culture, it's not Isekai. And, that the villain is more or less superpowered. Certainly that's not the case with all portal fantasy or even with most of it.

I'm also curious to hear what ideas the OP might have on how the genre can be fixed.

 

[Queshire]

Call it stereotypes more than tropes. Truck-kun hitting someone to speed them on their way to the other world, a goddess that grants them a cheat skill, a psedo-medieval setting where the MC winds up with plenty of attractive females around him, etc...

 

[skip.knox]

Those are examples, sure. But is it the participation of a goddess that makes it a checkbox on the list, or is it the granting of the cheat skill? Or is it more generally the MC having some sort of special power? Or is an overpowered MC itself optional?

I'm obviously completely unfamiliar with Isekai, which is why I keep asking for clarification. The OP made it sound like it was a genre with highly-specific characteristics.

The plenty of attractive females is hardly unique to Isekai. Looking at you, John Carter, but there are other more, er, populous examples in portal fantasy.

 

[Diana Silver]

Call it stereotypes more than tropes.

Yeah I was being pretty generous in my word choice xD

Truck-kun hitting someone to speed them on their way to the other world, a goddess that grants them a cheat skill, a psedo-medieval setting where the MC winds up with plenty of attractive females around him, etc...

All of this exactly. The thing is, I've tried to watch/read a couple of isekai stories and there isn't an original thought in view for miles and miles around. We can be all polite and sophistic about it, but it is honestly oddly specific and disfunctional (in appealing to wider audiences than a very specific fanbase).