Is there a way to 'fix' the Isekai Genre?

[Diana Silver]

Skip.knox your comtemplative literary view sounds very wise but I am genuinely wondering if you have every tried a couple of stories from this genre. I mean this question without shade: have you?

 

[Finchbearer]

Call it stereotypes more than tropes. Truck-kun hitting someone to speed them on their way to the other world, a goddess that grants them a cheat skill, a psedo-medieval setting where the MC winds up with plenty of attractive females around him, etc...

So it’s portal fantasies to ‘better places’ ? There was me thinking of Spirited Away…

 

[TheKillerBs]

I guess your mileage may vary, but it's usually not a very good place and there's a demon lord or some other problem in that realm threatening to destroy the kingdom/world/whathaveyou

 

[skip.knox]

>I am genuinely wondering if you have every tried a couple of stories from this genre

Nope. I have a pretty long list of Must Reads, far more books than I have years, and I'm getting awfully choosy. I was only wondering how the OP (you, now that I look back) would identify or list the checklist. I realize it's not an actual checklist, but you sounded pretty clear that there were absolute requirements for the genre. I just wondered what they were. Most genres and even sub-genres are pretty fuzzy in their definitions, which is one reason why we get lively arguments, er, discussions about them.

So far, I haven't heard any suggestions about fixes. I'd be genuinely interested in hearing those, as well.

 

[Queshire]

There's certainly not absolute requirements, but it's pretty much inevitable that a genre is going to branch off when you have a couple decades of development in a particular medium from a particular culture.

Now, I do have a wish list for things I'd want from an isekai story, but I have to get ready for work so it'll have to wait.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I don't think the genre of Isekai itself needs to be fixed.
But good lord the execution sure does, at least in terms of video game movies.
Like with Monster Hunter, there was no reason to make it an Isekai, other than the age old 'oh no, we need to give the non gamers a character to relate to' trope that plagues so many video game movies. I mean they could have made it a reverse Isekai and made it an old fashioned Kaiju film, with the monsters traveling to our world instead, and the hunters coming to save us. There are multiple ways they could have done it than what we got. Even if we factor in the trope of 'we can't make it exactly like the source material' which honestly, I'm not even asking for that most of the time. Most of the time I'm asking for Accuracy and believability. Monster Hunter never had any portal hopping nonsense in any game whatsoever and that part of the film is barely explained.

 

[skip.knox]

>But good lord the execution sure does, at least in terms of video game movies.
Sturgeon's Law

>I'm asking for Accuracy and believability
Which is what readers everywhere ask, but too often do not receive (see Sturgeon's Law).

But it sounds like you do have ideas for how to "fix" it. So, now go do it! I guarantee, if you can create a story that adheres to the genre and delivers accuracy and believability, your story will succeed, regardless of the medium. Of course, given the realities of the business, your story may never get coded/filmed/published, but that's a kettle of different colored fish.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

>But good lord the execution sure does, at least in terms of video game movies.
Sturgeon's Law

>I'm asking for Accuracy and believability
Which is what readers everywhere ask, but too often do not receive (see Sturgeon's Law).

But it sounds like you do have ideas for how to "fix" it. So, now go do it! I guarantee, if you can create a story that adheres to the genre and delivers accuracy and believability, your story will succeed, regardless of the medium. Of course, given the realities of the business, your story may never get coded/filmed/published, but that's a kettle of different colored fish.

I understand your point: my point in the OP (which most people missed) was in regards to how portal fiction/Isekai is handled in terms of video game movies. And as I also said in my op (which people also missed) my gripes only extend to the execution on that front. I already suggested a way they could have fixed the plot in an earlier post (Having the monsters come to our world, and have the hunters get to be the badasses coming to save OUR bacon) but I digress. There are some easy ways they could have fixed the Monster Hunter film. Most Notably

-Made the hunters native english speakers (or whatever language the film is airing in) like they are in the games. For some reason they decided to make the hunting tribes, you know, TRIBES, because they did barely any research on the IP they were conscribing into a film media. And for an even more absurd reason, Capcom Greenlit this idea. Capcom looked at their demo reel of a mary sue american GI Joe fighting Rathalos and Greenlit the thing, no questions asked. I know Borderlands fans are unhappy with how that film turned out, after seeing it myself I don't blame them, but at least it kept to the same universe.

For the Record: The different Tribes in Monster hunter do have Tribal behaviors and Traditions, but they aren't often depicted as like, tribe-tribes (as in historically accurate to say an indian tribe or pre historic tribe or such) if that makes sense. Culturally they are, but not as a race. They are often every bit as modern/intelligent as modern humans are. They are much more like the Clans in Naruto with different styles of fighting and different cultural things as a result. Some of the home bases are some of the coolest bits of 'primitive' construction work. They even have airships.


-Had an actual cultural exchange occur: In monster hunter they have technology call bow guns, and it's never really explained, this movie could have been a chance to explain that technology and how the hunters developed their own version of our tech, they didn't.

-Had some of the film be the actual hunt. It's a small detail in game but the moments between hunts where you're tracking down the big baddie give you time to plan your next move. Alien VS Predator easily pulled this kind of segment off, plenty of other science fiction films too.

 

[skip.knox]

I got the first point, but I steadfastly hold to this is a forum for writers, so I don't enter into how to make movies. But I totally missed the second point

As a long-time comic book fan (Marvel), I know what it feels like when another medium routinely fumbles the ball. When the first X-Men movie came out, I was stupidly happy. Someone had at last made a movie that understood comic books. I don't doubt you feel the same way about Isekai movies. Here's hoping it takes less than several decades for the movie folks to get it right!

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I got the first point, but I steadfastly hold to this is a forum for writers, so I don't enter into how to make movies. But I totally missed the second point

As a long-time comic book fan (Marvel), I know what it feels like when another medium routinely fumbles the ball. When the first X-Men movie came out, I was stupidly happy. Someone had at last made a movie that understood comic books. I don't doubt you feel the same way about Isekai movies. Here's hoping it takes less than several decades for the movie folks to get it right!

Well for 1 thing, across the board we've seen a slight improvement in the past decade or two, at least when Isekai isn't involved.

Detective Pikachu was borderline self aware parody, and I loved it for that reason.

Borderlands was complete pants, but I had fun with it, most likely due to being blind to the games. It was bad but it could have been far, FAR worse *looks at the OG mario movie*

Uncharted did a good job of being 'Indiana Jones at Home' while not losing the spirit of the Games. (though they did make the main character too young)

Nothing But Praise for the sonic films except for the dumb non-sonic related human characters they randomly included which is take it or leave it. Each film seems to be leaning more into the video game side of things, which is a good sign.

The Mario movie speaks for itself (though I personally feel too much of it is spent being an 'origin story' plot for Mario also, and it was really annoying when people were impressed that princess peach had a rebellious girlboss streak and acting like it's 'new' . She's always been that way especially in the paper mario games.)

I think the main sticking point of these movies is the studios need to cooperate more with the IP owners, ask more questions about this or that detail, and try to embrace some of the more fantasy based things. I'm more than fine with them crafting their own vision of the IP, but I think M Knight's version of Avatar The Last Airbender and Dragon Ball Z (neither of those are video games but they are similarly bad films of similarly popular IP's) has shown us how horrible things can go when this shit goes freelance without a tight leash.

 

[TheCrystallineEntity]

I'd like to see more stories deconstructing or examining the structure. Maybe a story that takes place after the hero has returned home. What effects would that have on their mental state, how they interact with people? Or, alternately, what if they choose to stay, and the main story is from the perspective of their grieving family members who think they're dead or just straight-up missing? Even farther, what if they fail in their quest? Who will save the fantasyland then? Maybe a party member or side character who is actually an inhabitant, and knows the world and how it works.
So many different ways to flip a traditional story plan on its head.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

I'd like to see more stories deconstructing or examining the structure. Maybe a story that takes place after the hero has returned home. What effects would that have on their mental state, how they interact with people? Or, alternately, what if they choose to stay, and the main story is from the perspective of their grieving family members who think they're dead or just straight-up missing? Even farther, what if they fail in their quest? Who will save the fantasyland then? Maybe a party member or side character who is actually an inhabitant, and knows the world and how it works.
So many different ways to flip a traditional story plan on its head.

better yet, have the hero/heroine from the fantasy world be sent to the normal world. (even better if the fantasy world is a musical)
I read a Visual Novel that did that and it was very silly but good. (the bad ending was dumb enough I didn't bother getting the good ending though)
There was a Disney movie a while ago that did this and it was goofy but good, I forget the name of it. I think it even got a sequel.

 

[Chuck]

I think there is an issue with video game movies in general, not just isekai video game movies. I think the new D&D movie was very well received, partly because everyone was expecting it to suck and it was much better than expectations, but also because if felt like it was an actual D&D campaign. The Fallout series on Amazon was very well done. It was written in a manner that did not require the viewers to be familiar with the games, but it was also pretty faithful to the games. While there were many things wrong with Warcraft, one thing was that it included too many things in the story that required that you be familiar with the entire franchise.