Magic systems please!

[Naruzeldamaster]

alright, I like this a lot, anything more powerful should have a cost, but I do have a question. is it just, the four elements, light, and shadow, or are there some others beyond those 6?

The problem with forbidden/forsaken magic, is again the sacrilegious nature of using it and the effects it has on the user, often leading to insanity or worse, death. Most normal people stray from it because of the nature of the rituals it uses. Shit like draining victims blood (while they're alive/conscious) and turning it into powerful magic crystals. Villains are exempt from this cause you know, baddies gotta be baddies.

It's not necessarily more powerful than 'dark' magic, but it taps into forces that living things very definitely shouldn't have knowledge/control over and in my world, that's enough to 'break' things including the user of it. That's kinda the whole reason for calling it forbidden/forsaken, if you dare to use it you're forsaken by the gods of the world.

There are some minor elements (like ice and lightning) but not as many as most RPG element wheels, I intend to stick with actual forces of nature. While light and shadows aren't an actual force of nature here, they are considered an 'element' in most games/fictional works.

 

[mr_clean]

The problem with forbidden/forsaken magic, is again the sacrilegious nature of using it and the effects it has on the user, often leading to insanity or worse, death. Most normal people stray from it because of the nature of the rituals it uses. Shit like draining victims blood (while they're alive/conscious) and turning it into powerful magic crystals. Villains are exempt from this cause you know, baddies gotta be baddies.

It's not necessarily more powerful than 'dark' magic, but it taps into forces that living things very definitely shouldn't have knowledge/control over and in my world, that's enough to 'break' things including the user of it. That's kinda the whole reason for calling it forbidden/forsaken, if you dare to use it you're forsaken by the gods of the world.

There are some minor elements (like ice and lightning) but not as many as most RPG element wheels, I intend to stick with actual forces of nature. While light and shadows aren't an actual force of nature here, they are considered an 'element' in most games/fictional works.

alright, so would that be somthing like storm magic? or did I completely misunderstand, because I do that a lot.

 

[Naruzeldamaster]

alright, so would that be somthing like storm magic? or did I completely misunderstand, because I do that a lot.

Ice would be closer to a 'storm' than lightning, which is literally just like thor in fact one of the characters is based on him.

 

[thatoneguywho-]

ill just paste a previous work of mine from another website:
Magic is a very interesting topic. I’m writing this here to preserve our knowledge, my journal being made to hide itself from the world. So, Magic takes on many forms, all of which are dangerous and potent. It will absorb weaker substances, injure somebody, sometimes kill. magic can be anything it wants to be, though it normally manifests in the rarer substance, like diamonds or any type of gem or crystal. it will copy the environment around it. In circumstance, though, magic can be corrupted. I have compiled a list of the known elements of magic here.





Earth magic: a strong, harsh magic, that is mostly focused on the earth around us, but a true master can control anything solid. Covered by the elemental tribe of the great mountain.



Water magic: a potent, flexible magic that mainly uses water, but at its most powerful it can control any type of liquid, therefore making it ridiculously powerful. Controlled by the elemental tribe of the marsh.



Air magic: a powerful, calming magic, it utilizes air to an extent, but at its purest form it can even remove air from specific areas. Used by the elemental tribe located on the plains.



flame magic: a violent, deadly magic, that controls the heat in the air at its most powerful, can summon fire. Utilized by the elemental tribe of the volcano.



Sun magic: a bright, powerful magic, that controls light. It is unknown what its purest from can do. Used by the elemental tribe of the desert.



Life magic: unknown, disappeared.



Time magic: unknown, disappeared.



Shadow magic. A corrupted form of magic, it is unknown what magic it once was. Used by the elemental tribe of the corrupted blacklands.



Abyssal magic: an evil magic, though I do not believe that it even is magic at all.



Divine magic: an enhanced form of each type of magic, all divinity use it.



magic: my personal theory, based off years of knowledge, suggests that there is a form of magic that transcends all others.



Those are all known forms of magic.



-Ana dilinouis

 

[mr_clean]

Ice would be closer to a 'storm' than lightning, which is literally just like thor in fact one of the characters is based on him.

always a fun trope, basing characters off other stuff

 

[mr_clean]

ill just paste a previous work of mine from another website:
Magic is a very interesting topic. I’m writing this here to preserve our knowledge, my journal being made to hide itself from the world. So, Magic takes on many forms, all of which are dangerous and potent. It will absorb weaker substances, injure somebody, sometimes kill. magic can be anything it wants to be, though it normally manifests in the rarer substance, like diamonds or any type of gem or crystal. it will copy the environment around it. In circumstance, though, magic can be corrupted. I have compiled a list of the known elements of magic here.





Earth magic: a strong, harsh magic, that is mostly focused on the earth around us, but a true master can control anything solid. Covered by the elemental tribe of the great mountain.



Water magic: a potent, flexible magic that mainly uses water, but at its most powerful it can control any type of liquid, therefore making it ridiculously powerful. Controlled by the elemental tribe of the marsh.



Air magic: a powerful, calming magic, it utilizes air to an extent, but at its purest form it can even remove air from specific areas. Used by the elemental tribe located on the plains.



flame magic: a violent, deadly magic, that controls the heat in the air at its most powerful, can summon fire. Utilized by the elemental tribe of the volcano.



Sun magic: a bright, powerful magic, that controls light. It is unknown what its purest from can do. Used by the elemental tribe of the desert.



Life magic: unknown, disappeared.



Time magic: unknown, disappeared.



Shadow magic. A corrupted form of magic, it is unknown what magic it once was. Used by the elemental tribe of the corrupted blacklands.



Abyssal magic: an evil magic, though I do not believe that it even is magic at all.



Divine magic: an enhanced form of each type of magic, all divinity use it.



magic: my personal theory, based off years of knowledge, suggests that there is a form of magic that transcends all others.



Those are all known forms of magic.



-Ana dilinouis

ok first of that was eerie as hell and I loved it. second that's a dope system! feels like a modern world that has magic, but it's guarded by these tribes and the world has no idea it exists.

 

[thatoneguywho-]

ok first of that was eerie as hell and I loved it. second that's a dope system! feels like a modern world that has magic, but it's guarded by these tribes and the world has no idea it exists.

I'm guessing that the sections on time and life were petty eerie, right? and not really modern. its in a fantasy world that HAS had modern tech, but all of it and the resources used to make it were destroyed by...well...the ninth one.

 

[mr_clean]

I'm guessing that the sections on time and life were petty eerie, right? and not really modern. its in a fantasy world that HAS had modern tech, but all of it and the resources used to make it were destroyed by...well...the ninth one.

that's a cool concept. I getting vibes of post-apocoliptic fantasy with a twist of urban or steampunk, does that sound accurate?

 

[thatoneguywho-]

that's a cool concept. I getting vibes of post-apocoliptic fantasy with a twist of urban or steampunk, does that sound accurate?

post apocalyptic? soon. not really steampunk or urban tho, but some modern tech still exists.

 

[mr_clean]

post apocalyptic? soon. not really steampunk or urban tho, but some modern tech still exists.

ok, ok. can others besides these tribes use these magics, or no?

 

[thatoneguywho-]

ok, ok. can others besides these tribes use these magics, or no?

'magic can copy the environment around it.' not really. there is so much magic in those specific areas that only those places allow those born inside them to use magic.

 

[mr_clean]

'magic can copy the environment around it.' not really. there is so much magic in those specific areas that only those places allow those born inside them to use magic.

That is cool and very unique. so if you were left there as a baby for some reason, you couldn't use the magic of wherever you were left? or would you be close enough if the tribe raised you?

 

[Badgerfrog]

this would be really cool in a system where the rest of the system is very contrasting to this magic, like everyone else has elemental magic.

Yeah, all the other magic is more external/physical(in this era).

Another aspect is that abstraction(in the sense of being able to achieve more fantastical and ill understood effects) can be done by just pumping in enough power.

I'm trying to build layers that are unknown to the characters and are revealed slowly throughout the story. Might take a few books to really dig deeper into it and magic's tendencies change over the ages so exploring it in different time periods allows for more development.

 

[thatoneguywho-]

That is cool and very unique. so if you were left there as a baby for some reason, you couldn't use the magic of wherever you were left? or would you be close enough if the tribe raised you?

yup, you cant use the magic. but the person waiting the account here, Ana Dilinouis, managed to figure how to use magic even though she wasn't born there. she basically flooded herself with magic.

 

[mr_clean]

Yeah, all the other magic is more external/physical(in this era).

Another aspect is that abstraction(in the sense of being able to achieve more fantastical and ill understood effects) can be done by just pumping in enough power.

I'm trying to build layers that are unknown to the characters and are revealed slowly throughout the story. Might take a few books to really dig deeper into it and magic's tendencies change over the ages so exploring it in different time periods allows for more development.

will there be a main character with mind magic?

 

[mr_clean]

yup, you cant use the magic. but the person waiting the account here, Ana Dilinouis, managed to figure how to use magic even though she wasn't born there. she basically flooded herself with magic.

how did she do that? some kind of place of significance?

 

[Badgerfrog]

will there be a main character with mind magic?

One of the group of main characters in the first book, yeah.

She's a partial POV character and becomes a major player in the world later too, and mind magic plays a prominent role in the first book.

 

[mr_clean]

One of the group of main characters in the first book, yeah.

She's a partial POV character and becomes a major player in the world later too, and mind magic plays a prominent role in the first book.

That's really cool. I don't really have a world with a system that uses mind type magic, because I'm really bad at writing it.

 

[Badgerfrog]

That's really cool. I don't really have a world with a system that uses mind type magic, because I'm really bad at writing it.

The moment I had the idea, I immediately forced myself to create a bunch of limitations for it because otherwise it's too world-breaking and you're left asking both "Why doesn't everyone use this?" and "Why doesn't everyone kill people who use this?".

Part of it was strict requirements in talent and a huge time investment for training, as well as having the connections or trust to access that training/education in the first place. Even the magic guild, whose entire purpose is to help talented people learn as much as possible, has stringent requirements and controls, and it's taught in a strictly apprenticeship based system to maintain lots of direct oversight.

There's also counters to it, very expensive magical items that can block mind reading, and people can be taught to defend their minds against it(requires a friendly mind mage and can take decades if you're not suited to learning).

Then of course you've got the social engineering done by the elite over centuries/millennia to normalize their use of mind magic against lower classes. But they get away with it because the majority of mind mages can only achieve a basic sort of empathy, mostly useful for feeling whether someone is telling the truth. Brings some Dune Truthsayer vibes, except the mind mages aren't manipulating everyone like the Bene Gesserit do (as far as you know... muahahaha!).

Also women have more magical power in this world, and mind magic required more abstraction/power than nearly any other discipline. That ties into some stuff about dreams and other deep lore though.

The mind mage major character is from a noble family who deliberately use rituals to make sure they have female children, and got special permission from the crown to practice absolute primogeniture, whereas the rest of the kingdom has the oldest male child or husband inherit noble titles.

Then there's an additional layer of the life-lengthening/youth-extension rituals that are common to the nobility, which lower someone's overall magical capabilities in exchange for what it says on the box. So even fewer women choose to pursue mind magic among those who'd be able to get training for it at a younger age.

Also I had to rework a bunch of political/geopolitical/historic/societal stuff to make it fit, and the plot shifted to account for how insanely useful it was and it eventually became a central element to the whole narrative.

Then I combined elements of mind magic with other types of magic, to allow true experts to bypass some of those limitations in creative ways.

Sorry for the rant, got into the weeds of worldbuilding a bit.

 

[mr_clean]

The moment I had the idea, I immediately forced myself to create a bunch of limitations for it because otherwise it's too world-breaking and you're left asking both "Why doesn't everyone use this?" and "Why doesn't everyone kill people who use this?".

Part of it was strict requirements in talent and a huge time investment for training, as well as having the connections or trust to access that training/education in the first place. Even the magic guild, whose entire purpose is to help talented people learn as much as possible, has stringent requirements and controls, and it's taught in a strictly apprenticeship based system to maintain lots of direct oversight.

There's also counters to it, very expensive magical items that can block mind reading, and people can be taught to defend their minds against it(requires a friendly mind mage and can take decades if you're not suited to learning).

Then of course you've got the social engineering done by the elite over centuries/millennia to normalize their use of mind magic against lower classes. But they get away with it because the majority of mind mages can only achieve a basic sort of empathy, mostly useful for feeling whether someone is telling the truth. Brings some Dune Truthsayer vibes, except the mind mages aren't manipulating everyone like the Bene Gesserit do (as far as you know... muahahaha!).

Also women have more magical power in this world, and mind magic required more abstraction/power than nearly any other discipline. That ties into some stuff about dreams and other deep lore though.

The mind mage major character is from a noble family who deliberately use rituals to make sure they have female children, and got special permission from the crown to practice absolute primogeniture, whereas the rest of the kingdom has the oldest male child or husband inherit noble titles.

Then there's an additional layer of the life-lengthening/youth-extension rituals that are common to the nobility, which lower someone's overall magical capabilities in exchange for what it says on the box. So even fewer women choose to pursue mind magic among those who'd be able to get training for it at a younger age.

Also I had to rework a bunch of political/geopolitical/historic/societal stuff to make it fit, and the plot shifted to account for how insanely useful it was and it eventually became a central element to the whole narrative.

Then I combined elements of mind magic with other types of magic, to allow true experts to bypass some of those limitations in creative ways.

Sorry for the rant, got into the weeds of worldbuilding a bit.

...and my magic has a ghost sword. I am humbled, my good sir or ma'am(Or both or neither), and I humbly request your feedback on my system, if you would be so kind.