• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Making a twisted relationship work

So here's the setup:
In my WIP, I have Sirens among my other fantastic beings. Now, most of the lore regarding them I've kept- the magic of their voice and touch is there, the ability to completely overwhelm lesser beings (primarily humans) and bend them to their will. I've made one notable change:
If Siren's attempt to use their magic on each other, in a form of what I'm temporarily calling "seduction combat" it has a curious side effect. The loser of that combat is magically bound to the winner. They cannot operate in opposition to the desires of the winner. They cannot betray or attack them. They are utterly subservient to them.
They can be freed, but it takes a deliberate decision on the part of the dominant. All Sirens know this from birth. It is a part of their raising- and they've seen it in action.

Now for the problem. My protagonist is a siren, one of the most powerful to ever live. But he's been raised as a human, and had no access to the magic of that birthright until recently. (It's much more complicated than this, but this is enough to get going on.) What that means is he has absolutely no idea of this particular aspect of his new nature and powers.
Now the ultimate antagonist sends a female siren, quite powerful in her own right, to seduce and kill the protagonist. Unfortunately, she loses the fight and becomes bound to the protagonist.
Now here's where it gets twisted. "Because Plot", the protag is going to grow to actually care for her, even fall in love. Plot is going to happen and she's going to save his life (because of that binding). He'll free her and, of course, she'll leave.
Now for my questions:

1) How do I manage this situation without the (inevitable) sexual situations being rape?
2) The story ends up with them back together as equals and partners, through my WIP'S version of a wedding ("Rite of Mutual Binding" using blood magic that makes them mutually bound to each other but with no dominant or submissive partner). How do you think I can get them back together?
3) How do I make her a real person instead of a convenient object?

For the record, I have a few ideas regarding these elements (other than that first one). I'm just looking for other options and opinions I may not have considered.
 
My big question is, does sex have to be inevitable? Can't it be a platonic (or at least asexual) relationship?
Interesting thought. Like I said (or meant to), at the beginning of the situation my protag doesn't even realize this little caveat in inter-Siren relationships. (He's new to the entire world of the fantastic- he's been living as a mundane human for 30-40 years.)
So, even though I'm not doing erotica and don't plan on detailing the scenes, I expect sex to be inevitable in the beginning. As he begins to suspect what's going on, I think it's likely to taper off and (quite possibly) ultimately stop as he fully realizes what is happening.
So although I view Sirens as highly sensual beings who quite enjoy sex (especially as Siren-Siren relations, using the full range of their abilities, are likely to be...errr...fun), I do not think this relationship will be (at least toward the end of her subservience) sexual in nature.
 
Or... since sex seems inevitable to you, technically it wouldn't be rape? She's subservient, meaning she'd say yes if he asked or mentioned it because it's his will therefore her will therefore her choice? Not that I condone sex before ya know... mutual bonding, but uh ya know, choices are out there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Or... since sex seems inevitable to you, technically it wouldn't be rape? She's subservient, meaning she'd say yes if he asked or mentioned it because it's his will therefore her will therefore her choice? Not that I condone sex before ya know... mutual bonding, but uh ya know, choices are out there

If she's 100% subservient to him and has no free will of her own to consent or not (or if his will simply overrides hers), then yes, it is absolutely rape.
 
And therein lies my concern. I mean, I've seen it work where you have a protagonist who commits rape and ultimately redeems himself (Thomas Covenant springs to mind), but it's a delicate minefield I'm playing in here and I want to be extremely careful in it.

I do believe that, since it's actually a part of being a Siren, I can kind of step around it a bit. But I'm also going to have the "former human" protag have to confront what, from a human perspective, was absolutely rape. And that's the minefield I'm struggling with.
 
If she's 100% subservient to him and has no free will of her own to consent or not (or if his will simply overrides hers), then yes, it is absolutely rape.

Ok yes true. I guess it depends on his explanation of the subservient form of relationship. Let's say that they are subservient but if simply comes down to culture than nobody would call it rape except humans because maybe their siren culture dictates that it isn't? Or that sex is less of a soul bound moment within the siren community?

Basically you have to dehumanize the event, but still make him feel like a human does and have the thoughts and reactions of a human. But if you dehumanize the EVENT as a whole and make it less... morally detrimental, than you could pull it off. Plus, I hear that fifty shades of grey would be illegal if someone with less money did it... so you could probably get away with just not saying anything and I doubt many people would bring it up. (I say this, I am probably not the best source on what public response will be XD)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Just my opinion here, but I think 50 Shades is disgusting no matter who's involved. From what I've gleaned via the internet, Christian abuses Anastasia in every conceivable way -- physically, emotionally, and yes, sexually. He's a rapist, plain and simple. That's illegal no matter how rich a person is.

/end rant
 
Just my opinion here, but I think 50 Shades is disgusting no matter who's involved. From what I've gleaned via the internet, Christian abuses Anastasia in every conceivable way -- physically, emotionally, and yes, sexually. He's a rapist, plain and simple. That's illegal no matter how rich a person is.

/end rant

I, for two, completely agree! Lol but like it would've been called out if they were less rich.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
I like the no sex scenario. Let him desire sexual union, but the whole submission thing troubles his conscience. You can have there be approach, break away, approach, break away, which can delight your readers, so long as there is real progression and genuine emotions. At the end--shall I say climax?--he can set her free, then *she* initiates actual sex. And then leaves, for good Plot reasons. One magical night, earned by both.

One thing, though. Wouldn't the female siren be perfectly aware of the real situation? And wouldn't she *tell* him? I can see it working both ways. She keeps it secret because she loves him. Or, she tells him because she loves him.

But no sex without consent. That crosses the line for me, too.
 
I like the no sex scenario. Let him desire sexual union, but the whole submission thing troubles his conscience. You can have there be approach, break away, approach, break away, which can delight your readers, so long as there is real progression and genuine emotions. At the end--shall I say climax?--he can set her free, then *she* initiates actual sex. And then leaves, for good Plot reasons. One magical night, earned by both.

Okay. I'm going to have to go into a little more detail. I would say I don't want to spoil anything but...to be honest, this isn't on paper yet and although I think I've got the beats down, 95% of what I'm tossing around in my skull right now is probably not going to wind up there. lol
So we have the Heroe's Journey, right? The "release" incident is going to happen, according to that journey, around step 8. It's approximately midway through act 2, and is the largest fail on the try/fail cycle. Due to his own failure, the mentor character is going to die, and the protag will nearly do so. Due to the binding, the female is going to save his life. This whole situation is going to force him to realize how he actually feels about her, and the truth of the source of their connection, a truth he's been aware of but dodging for some time- the fact that she can't do anything but help him and be with him. He will have her help him release her- she knows how to do it, and will be able to help him do it.

One thing, though. Wouldn't the female siren be perfectly aware of the real situation? And wouldn't she *tell* him? I can see it working both ways. She keeps it secret because she loves him. Or, she tells him because she loves him.
There is no love at this point. He hasn't earned it. She may like him, even respect him. But it won't be until his sacrifice of letting her go, and his embracing of himself (he was a very apathetic human, and this continues after his introduction to the new reality for quite a while- and is partly what leads to his epic failure), that he earns the right for her to love him. And even then it won't be until much later- if this is half through act 2 then I'm guessing near the end of act 3, around the major climax- that she grants it to him.
And although she does, as do all Sirens born and raised in this world, know the realities of what's going on, I'm not certain if she could tell him. Plus, having her tell him means he doesn't get to discover it, and this is a problem for me as a story teller. I need him to discover this world, including the less humanly acceptable aspects of it. (Again, this situation is a trait of the very nature of Sirens, and may not be something she would even think of him needing to be told, because his origins are not commonly known outside of a very small circle.)

But no sex without consent. That crosses the line for me, too.
Agreed. Which is the reason I'm going to have it stop once he realizes what's going on.
 
Sex being inevitable in that kind or relationship? Idk.

Since MC has been raised as a human, the whole thing might trouble him. He might not WANT to control/take advantage of her. In fact, it might be interesting to see him wrestle with his identity and his relationship with her and what it entails. He might desire her, but fight it. He might almost give in, but then realize what he is doing and be disgusted with himself. He might explore his identity as a Siren and fear part of it.

If there was sex without consent (rape), id put the book down. It crosses the line for me.
 

ascanius

Inkling
I'm not really understanding the big deal, nor do I get how this is rape. It doesn't seem like she looses the ability to choose, have free will, unless she become part of his hive mind kinda thing. It seems to me that unless he explicitly demands sex, she has a choice.

Let me explain. If it is established that she cannot read his mind and hence doesn't know his will without being told and she still has autonomy then she can always say no. What he does after determines if it is rape.

An example. They are together and thing happen as happens between two people. During the whole event he never explicitly says or implies his will. That means she has a choice to say no, also how she responds will tell a lot to the reader, if she is engaged in the process to in the same manner as he it changes things.

It's important to establish that she still has free will, have her tell him to f'off a few times even if she does what he wants. Establish that her mind and voice are still her own. It's the only way I can see this working. You can still be vague and leave the reader wondering but be careful.

The Witcher comes to mind with yennifer and geralt and the djinn. Yennifer has doubts about their relationship being about love or magic compelling then.

Edit: I'm not understanding if you want this to be vague and something he is later redeemed for by releasing her. Or you want a moment of intimacy that is mutual. If you want the act to be vague or even not vague then your going to need something much greater than simply releasing her. Unless this is a cultural thing among sirens that is understood, so for her its no big deal. If your going the cultural route your going to need to do a lot of work establishing the siren culture and characters.
 
Last edited:
Let me explain. If it is established that she cannot read his mind and hence doesn't know his will without being told and she still has autonomy then she can always say no. What he does after determines if it is rape.
It's a good idea. I'll play around with it some and see how it handles.

Unless this is a cultural thing among sirens that is understood, so for her its no big deal. If your going the cultural route your going to need to do a lot of work establishing the siren culture and characters.
It's deeper than merely cultural. It's a genetic thing that they can't even control. If 2 Sirens engage in "seduction combat" (again, that is not what I'm ultimately calling it, but it's the best I've got right now), there will be a winner and there will be a loser. By virtue of what they are, not how they were raised, the loser is bound to and submissive to the winner. I'm thinking it isn't a super common occurrence, mainly because nobody wants to risk being the loser in this situation, but it happens often enough that it's been seen by most, and that it's possibly "genetic knowledge" (which is a concept I'm toying around with right now for other aspects of the story).
When she is sent to seduce and kill him, almost nobody knows he's a siren. That means she thinks he's a human or, at most, a powerful magic user on the wrong side of the conflict from her. In other words, an easy victory with maybe a bit of fun thrown in. He surprises both of them by winning, although I think barely. (I'm not sure how much of this scene I want to write, since this combat can only be fully engaged in one way, and I really would prefer to avoid those scenes as much as possible.) He may know something happened, because she's not going to leave, but I don't think he'll know what at this point.
I want it to take a while for him to figure it out, and only at that crisis point do I expect him to do something about it.
 
Even just reading about all of this is making me feel icky. I highly suggest going the asexual route [but, then again, all of my own characters are asexual, so...]

50 Shades of Grey, along with Twilight and The Handmaid's Tale, are the only books I would genuinely want to tear apart and then burn.
 
Even just reading about all of this is making me feel icky. I highly suggest going the asexual route [but, then again, all of my own characters are asexual, so...]

50 Shades of Grey, along with Twilight and The Handmaid's Tale, are the only books I would genuinely want to tear apart and then burn.

Why the Handmaid's Tale?
 
I highly suggest going the asexual route

For a variety of reasons, that's not possible.
1) I don't write asexual characters.
2) Exploring this relationship is one of the ways he's going to explore both himself and the larger universe in okay.
3) I've tried not including this relationship. The entire story falls assist without it.
4) The only way to defeat The Big Bad is this relationship.
 
Top