My head in the sand...

[Caged Maiden]

So I joined this forum last year, when I felt stuck in a novel which had just gotten too long. I was stuck debating open war in my world, and I have absolutely no idea what such wide-scale fighting would entail (sorta LOTR-ish).
Well I got some great help, and enjoyed my time here, though I have taken some leaves of absence. But today I looked back on my immediate boredom and frustration and wondered whether I have only been hiding my head in the sand. I have 10 books written in a world I created in 2001. While I don't see any fundamental problems with the world itself, or the magic and creatures, I am pretty resigned to the fact that the first three books are weak and need complete overhauls to redeem them (I haven't read them in probably 5-6 years). I just recently made an effort to type the 4th and have begun typing the 5th as well, but all my hope was reliant on the strengths of the last three stories, which I think are much stronger manuscripts....

Then for NanoWriMo, I wrote a stand-alone novel which I am very proud of, though it's in its first draft... and I wonder whether the first ones are even worth my time. See.... everything save the last stand-alone novel has been hand-written, and most are not typed at all. When I consider typing these... it just seems daunting; and as I try to force myself to do it, I find my attention being drawn to the weakness of some plot holes..... and then I just can't look at them anymore because I'd rather be pulling razorblades over my flesh......

Does anyone else feel like this? Am I just having a discouraging moment, or is it sometimes just better to cut your losses and start fresh?

 

[Devor]

Does anyone else feel like this? Am I just having a discouraging moment, or is it sometimes just better to cut your losses and start fresh?

It is sometimes better to start fresh. You're the only one who can decide that.

If you're seeing plot holes, most likely you've gotten better as a writer since when you started. It feels daunting to realize that things aren't as good as you thought they were, but seeing it is something you should be happy about. Becoming aware of your work's shortcomings is part of the learning curve and will make your work stronger going forward.

For more concrete advice, you should maybe think about taking a minute to quickly outline the story the way you remember it, or how it ought to be, and then read through the books again to see how well they line up.

I will say one thing, though. Don't take this the wrong way, but I find it unlikely that you'll find all ten books to be worth salvaging.

 

[Butterfly]

Start afresh? I'd say it depends, but as writers we are always learning something new, be it techniques, new ways of doing things or some previously unseen issue with our worlds.

I think, that if you do decide to type up what you have in hand-written form you will be redrafting it, improving it, filling in those plot holes as you go. You may even be pleasantly surprised by some of what you wrote, and knowing what you know now could get them in much better shape than how they are now.

You won't know until you try.

At least read through your old work, pull out the good ideas, and make notes to improve it before you do throw it away, because when it's gone, it's gone forever.

 

[Caged Maiden]

Thanks...I'm not usually one for the bitching and woe is me... but I'm just feeling a little overwhelmed at the typing. I am a slow typist, though I can hand-write fast. Thanks for the encouragement. I think you guys are reflecting exactly what I've been thinking. Damn, it's just so much work.... I guess that's how it is, though. I do the same thing when I'm sewing. I just tore a dress apart that I was immensely proud of completing, and most people wouldn't probably think to do it, but since I know I can do it better now... well I just have to strive for perfection though I am not perfect.

 

[Amanita]

Does anyone else feel like this?

Yes, sort of. I've been working on my current story since 2007 and had completed first draft which I cast away completely, but I still want to tell the story in question. At the moment, I'm writing my fifth new start and still the beginning never satisfys me. I hope that I'll get on now to get at least a second version of the later parts.
For me, rewriting is the only option because this is the story I want to tell and I just have to get the "details" right. Is this the same in your case? Or don't you like the entire thing anymore at all?
If I had ten books already finished (nothing near that), I'd probably try to rework them, cutting off unnecessary bits and deciding what is worth keeping and what is not.

As a reader, I've only ever found one series which kept me interested beyond the usual three book and that was Harry Potter. Even in this case, the last two books felt much weaker to me and were quite different from the first ones. Some threads from the earlier books where dropped completely, new stuff suddenly became important, once important characters where simply cast away, others changed completeley in a way that didn't really suit them and so on.
And this was, as I've mentioned above, the only series of that length through which I did get. With others, such as Sword of Truth, I've given up much earlier than that.

Try to turn it into one congruent story or into various ones indepdent from each other safe for the fact that they're set in the same world, depending on what suits your story better. If you dislike the bigger story but belive that there are parts worth keeping, keep those and turn them into stories of their own and if you don't want anything of this at the moment, simply keep it in your shelf and do something else. Maybe you'll get interested in it again at some time in the future.

These are my thoughts, but take them with a grain of salt, I'm anything but a productive novel writer myself.

 

[bbeams32]

First of all, as someone who has had what feels like a million stories started and scrapped way before finished over the past 10+ years, I want to applaud the fact that you have finished 10 stories in your world. More to the point, I went through something like this after I finally finished my first book. I was reading back through and found myself catching plot holes and weaknesses that just made me feel worthless as a writer and started feeling a bit sorry for myself. That led to me taking some time away from my book and considering giving up on it.

I'm not sure exactly what happened, but one day I was out jogging and just had this realization of how proud I was that I finished my book and that I wasn't going to beat myself up about any of the problems I had found with it. I actually found it fun to dive back in and fix those problems, completely enjoying the challenge.

Take pride in your accomplishments, and maybe with a little bit of time removed from your books, you will have that same type of moment I had.

 

[Penpilot]

I'd lean towards saying start fresh. But only you can say for sure. Starting fresh doesn't mean throwing 10 books away, but maybe take a breather from that world and go back to it later.

I had a similar situation, not ten books worth but it was a manuscript that was just under 400 000 words. It took me two years to finish it and after a year of editing it, I realized, it needed even more editing and fixing. I came to the conclusion that the time it would take me to fix everything, without guarantee that it wouldn't need even more fixing after was greater than the time it would take me to write one maybe two more books that wouldn't have many of flaws that the huge manuscript had. So I put my manuscript away and started fresh. I got apply the lessons learned in creating my old world to creating my new world and it's worked out pretty good. Problems still came up but not to the same degree. The new world just seemed to come together a lot easier, and I wasn't making many of my old mistakes.

Now that I have perspective on my old world, all the issues I was fretting over, their solutions seem obvious and easy to me now. I don't plan on revisiting the old world any time soon, but for sure one day I will. But for now I find a lot of value and lessons to learn in starting something totally fresh, taking it to the end, and then starting fresh again. It can be very liberating.

An analogy I would use is do you keep putting money into the old car to fix it or do you buy a new one? What's the cost benefit?

Again, whether starting fresh is right for you, only you can say for sure.

 

[Caged Maiden]

Yeah actually the three trilogies are remotely related. Other than being set in the same world, they are not dealing with the same characters or events, so it isn't only big series or anything. The first three books follow the same three main characters, but if any whole books can be omitted, it would be the third, which I don't think is particularly strong. The 4th, 5th and 6th books are about completely unrelated characters and spans a hundred or so years. The 7th, again could stand alone, but the characters appear again in the 8th (which is technically two novels) and the 9th is about the child of the characters in the 8th, so all the characters appear again.

If someone were inclined to read all the novels, they would not find them akin to Harry Potter, where the world is ending and it takes 9 books to solve the problem, it would be more like Piers Anthony's Xanth, where the world has an assortment of people, and each has a book written about their own personal quest (whether it affects the world in any way or is more personal).

In fact, in my quest to become published (a fairly recent goal) I began with the 7th, thinking it my strongest completed work, without concern with the earlier ones which probably need major work.

 

[Kit]

One of the things I like about writing weblit is that you can always go back and edit. I too am a perfectionist, and do a lot of rewriting. I like the idea of having my novels online so that they don't ever have to be truly "done"- I can keep editing forever, if I want to, but in the meantime the novel is not hiding in a drawer.

If you decide to scrap the 10 volumes, you need not view this as a ton of work down the toilet. Not only are you a better writer now (due in no small part to all that practice on the 10 volumes), but you are free to recycle what you *do* like- plot points, characters, settings, all sorts of stuff- into your new work.

One thing I think we all need to work to avoid- or get over- is that conviction that it's just never gonna be good enough to let anyone read. Yes, some of us are just wired to believe that it's never gonna be good enough. But whip it into some sort of shape and put it online and let some people read it.

 

[Caged Maiden]

One thing I think we all need to work to avoid- or get over- is that conviction that it's just never gonna be good enough to let anyone read. Yes, some of us are just wired to believe that it's never gonna be good enough. But whip it into some sort of shape and put it online and let some people read it.

Thanks, I'm more of a mind that too many people cling to their work with a death grip and can't just throw something away that ought to go in the bin..... I'm good at editing because I'm not in love with my stories or characters, but yes, I'd like more people to read and weigh-in on what I have done. I guess I feel like I'm torturing people with my rough unedited manuscripts, and I'm honestly so thankful to the ones who have taken their time to help me hone in on my problems.

Thanks!

 

[Steerpike]

...well I just have to strive for perfection though I am not perfect.

Although there are a lot of strengths that are associated with perfectionism, it can be a huge hindrance for a writer. This is a case of "physician heal thyself," because I used to be very bad about this. I'm better now, but not as good as I should be. My children's book was delayed for a few years because it wasn't perfect, and I finally decided that I'd have to pull the trigger when it was good enough.

All works of fiction are imperfect. Words are symbols that we use to represent abstract ideas that we conceive in our minds. Because they are symbols and not the thing themselves, they'll always be imperfect representations. No book you write will ever match the vision in your head - it will fall short in some way, because that is the nature of the written word. Don't let that stop you. You've produced a lot of writing.

As for the typing, you might consider hiring someone to type it, if that is a viable option. It wouldn't be for me because my longhand is apparently insusceptible to interpretation by any other human on the planet. But if you find that you just can't sit down and type up these manuscripts, think about that as an option.

 

[Caged Maiden]

It was liberating when I wrote my NaNoWriMo only on the computer. I had never thought to do that before, but because of time ( I squandered the first two weeks and essentially wrote 50k in two weeks) i had no option to write by hand first. I found that I can write quickly enough when typing, but I HATE reading my hand-written copy and then typing it. I feel weird when I deviate from the paper, and I find the paper gets in my way and can be hard to read at night (when I do most of my writing because the kids are in bed).

Thank you all. I have a whole different perspective already about why I'm having such a hard time going back and getting these typed. Perhaps I need to set aside daylight hours to just getting through the task and reward myself when I've gotten them complete. I've done many tasks I've loathed in my life, and have always just pushed on, knowing there was an end somewhere (though not always in sight).

 

[Kit]

As for the typing, you might consider hiring someone to type it, if that is a viable option. It wouldn't be for me because my longhand is apparently insusceptible to interpretation by any other human on the planet. But if you find that you just can't sit down and type up these manuscripts, think about that as an option.

That's a good idea. You might be able to hire a high school kid for cheap to knock that out for you.

 

[The Din]

I had the same problem converting my handwritten stuff onto a computer, though in the end it actually helped me a lot. I found the best way was to read it aloud to my girlfriend at the time who then typed it. Thus I had the benefit of hearing it out loud (helped dialogue tonnes) and gave me two different perspectives. Not to mention she had a lot of good advice (being a extension english classmate).

That being said, rewriting has many benefits, especially if you've matured as a writer since the last draft. I find it easier than changing every second line.

 

[Poppy]

So I joined this forum last year, when I felt stuck in a novel which had just gotten too long. I was stuck debating open war in my world, and I have absolutely no idea what such wide-scale fighting would entail (sorta LOTR-ish).
Well I got some great help, and enjoyed my time here, though I have taken some leaves of absence. But today I looked back on my immediate boredom and frustration and wondered whether I have only been hiding my head in the sand. I have 10 books written in a world I created in 2001. While I don't see any fundamental problems with the world itself, or the magic and creatures, I am pretty resigned to the fact that the first three books are weak and need complete overhauls to redeem them (I haven't read them in probably 5-6 years). I just recently made an effort to type the 4th and have begun typing the 5th as well, but all my hope was reliant on the strengths of the last three stories, which I think are much stronger manuscripts....

Then for NanoWriMo, I wrote a stand-alone novel which I am very proud of, though it's in its first draft... and I wonder whether the first ones are even worth my time. See.... everything save the last stand-alone novel has been hand-written, and most are not typed at all. When I consider typing these... it just seems daunting; and as I try to force myself to do it, I find my attention being drawn to the weakness of some plot holes..... and then I just can't look at them anymore because I'd rather be pulling razorblades over my flesh......

Does anyone else feel like this? Am I just having a discouraging moment, or is it sometimes just better to cut your losses and start fresh?

There's a fine line between persistence and stubbornness.

Persist long enough and it may succeed. Or are you just being stubborn with a dead idea.

Only you can decide.

I'm impressed that you've been plugging away since 2001.