My magic system, and a question.

[ascanius]

My magic system works on a person's ability to comprehend and control the physical world with their minds. It follows a few laws of entropy and enthalpy. Like creating fire energy has to be taken from somewhere else to cause friction to cause a flame. This takes a degree of concentration to do and depending on the scale the amount of concentration and energy needed. Now their are tricks that can be utilized to simplify things, like focusing the friction to an extremely small point. Now there is also a downside to this in that if energy is taken from the environment then their will be a natural tendency for a shift from high energy density to the lower energy density, this is why scale is important because it acts as a limit. It is possible to do great works of magic but requires a degree of concentration that renders the person useless in any situation.

That is how it works but there is a catch to this. No one knows how magic works, save for a few but I'll get back to that. How people use magic is very different. For one, there are three hundred and sixty two precepts. The precepts are a formula on how to achieve a specific result. For instance precept seven, sixty two, and sixty six are need to make a fireball about the size of a hand on dry wood. To make it larger precept 100 is added, smaller precept 10 is used. By adding different precepts and/or changing the order the end effect changes.

What are the precepts exactly you might ask? Well they are hand motions, thoughts, and verbal spells, all of those for a single precept. The single act of creating a fire ball can require ten to twenty different precepts depending on the casters ability. The actual verbal spell can be different depending the race. For instance humans have a different word for the spells than the gnomes do. So to are the hand gestures and thoughts.

Now however Some individuals at times discover that speaking, or the hand gestures are not needed. Generally they manage to do this with simple magic, ie fireball, or something they have done so much it is second nature. Among the magi the ability to do magic in such a manner is a symbol of rank. The majority of high ranking magi can do magic with out the use of their hands or talking for simple tasks. the truly powerful can do much more complex magic involving 100 an up different precepts, though usually this is limited to only a few accomplished tasks, like calling lightning for example.

the reason why it is so few manage to do magic without the precepts in their entirety is because the precepts are nothing more than a focal tool used by the caster. It is much easier to have something concrete to focus on than simply doing something through non physical means. The caster knows what it is they want to accomplish so starts at the beginning in a series of steps that work. To explain it differently. Each precept is like a step on a ladder with the goal being to get to the top. The hand motions, thoughts, and verbal spells are what make up the steps. The precepts give the caster something physical to focus on to aid in doing the magic. It takes a long time and a lot of trust in their ability to do magic for a person to understand they can leave out aspects of the precept.

This in turn creates three different classification of magic users, one Hedge magic which is nothing more than random chance in a dicey situation usually amounting to nothing more than a single event, though this is very rare. Two witches and other people who can use magic to an extent. Though they forgo they use physical tools as focal points such as wands, trinkets and the like. Hand motions and words are also spoken yet in place of thoughts the wand is used but with the firm belief in the outcome. These individuals never amount to much, there are exceptions. Lastly are the magi who through extensive studying and practice of the precepts can do very complicated magic, depending on the situation. It's the difference between building a wall without knowing what a wall is (hedge magic), building a wall the very basic knowledge of piling bricks on top of each other (witches and others) and building a wall after being apprenticed under a master mason (magi).

For an individual to do magic using the precepts they must study among the magi. Due to the level of technical details, and complexity these individuals must be very intelligent. I don't mean necessarily book smart but they must have the ability to grasp concepts they cannot see, study obscene amounts of information along with committing it all to memory, and have the ability to shift this knowledge around to get different results. It takes 4 years of studying to reach the level of novice. That time is mostly spent master all the precepts along with other things like alchemy, metallurgy, weather, plants, animals, lore, history. After that they are accepted among the magi as novices and that is where they learn to use the precepts, like changing the wind, or calling lightening, even imbue magic into items. There political issues and other things that I wont get into save to say that it is in a city/kingdoms interest to train and house those able to do magic cuz then you get into the applications of magic which are quite extensive.

Ok my questions. One the vast majority of the above is not known to anyone, how magic works that is. They know if they follow the precepts this happens. My intention with this is I want it to be mysterious. What are I only intent to include the precepts and what the precepts are leaving vague hints to everything else throughout. your thoughts on this?

Second. Has anyone read Lev Grossman's The Magician, or the Magician king. I am wondering if this is too similar to what he has, with the precepts, intelligence level and everything else.

 

[JCFarnham]

Usually the outcome is the same, the method is the same, but the source is minutely different. Well, I'm very happy to see a completely different take on magic theory and practice.

I'm almost certain that formulaic magic has been done before (probably in that book you mentioned but I've never read it) but that shouldn't have any baring on what you do with the system you have come up with. Your implementation of it will certainly be different to Grossman's, right? Just don't worry too much about it.

The next question I always ask of a magic system is, can you see plots emerging from it? If you don't then the simple truth is that you should probably rethink the system. Everything you throw at a fantasy work should facilitate something else, a plot point, a ... whatever, you know, something useful. I'm not saying yours doesn't, in fact I'm deliberately not making specific comments to give you the chance to work through it yourself. (I mean it's more satisfying like that isn't it)

So I like this system. Very much. You have a tangible limit, the limit of knowledge, and real consequences for not following the precepts. I do think though that you should be careful in your implementation of it. You're right in fighting the urge to give all the information at once (something lots of authors fail at), but I'm not sure the mysterious angle is congruent with the strictness and such of the system itself. They may not know the how, but they probably have ideas, and they certainly treat it like a science.

Now from the perspective of a Magi it wouldn't be mysterious, to me at least, but from the perspective of a completely beginner, some one who's never even thought about it before... all these people making gestures and saying funny words must look pretty fantastical. It's all a matter of point of view. You could play it either way.

 

[Roc]

Magic is perhaps the most complicated thing in a fantasy novel, but it's also the thing you want to make sound the most simple, or people will be lost, and in turn...bored.

I think your idea is good, but you need to find a way to impliment it in a simple way...

Simple can mean a lot of things in this sense, it can still be complex, but easily understandable. In the end it's your choice and not mine, so I wish you good luck!

 

[ascanius]

Hey Thanks for your replys you two. Quick question though. What do you mean by implement it? I'm going to avoid going into any detail about magic, how it works and what not. I am by no means going to put the above into the story in it's entirety. The politics, and a few other things are going to be more important.

As an example this is something I have already writting from the POV of another character: He opened both palms whispering to himself and let fire quickly burst from his fingers. Something else, they have already seen that so and so thought to herself. He looked around with a wicked sly smile and closed his eyes. The moments stretched with him standing there doing nothing. Gradually his fingers began to move in complex forms too juxtaposed to be a hand language and much to chaotic. Only a hand full of the motions did she already recognize and began quickly studying those she didn't. The sound of his deep, almost a whisper, voice reached her ears. Each word that flowed rang softly like crystal rain to sink in harmony with his hands. The language she had heard him speak only a few times before. He held out one hand towards the top of the nearest column while his other closed in finality. A searing white bolt erupted from his hand slamming into the top of the column. Sparks poured from the top of the column emitting a roaring crack that wreathed with the moving bolt. He held the bolt for a few seconds letting sparks and bits of stone spray to the ground below before he closed his hand.

Usually when a character does magic all I mention is the character going through the precepts; hand motions, words, concentrating. I don't say they are doing precept one first then 20, then 39..... Usually it's just them doing the precepts then the magic. Except on rare occasions where they are attempting something more complex then there are a few details on the complexity of a certain precept.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Hey Thanks for your replys you two. Quick question though. What do you mean by implement it? I'm going to avoid going into any detail about magic, how it works and what not. I am by no means going to put the above into the story in it's entirety. The politics, and a few other things are going to be more important.

As an example this is something I have already writting from the POV of another character: He opened both palms whispering to himself and let fire quickly burst from his fingers. Something else, they have already seen that so and so thought to herself. He looked around with a wicked sly smile and closed his eyes. The moments stretched with him standing there doing nothing. Gradually his fingers began to move in complex forms too juxtaposed to be a hand language and much to chaotic. Only a hand full of the motions did she already recognize and began quickly studying those she didn't. The sound of his deep, almost a whisper, voice reached her ears. Each word that flowed rang softly like crystal rain to sink in harmony with his hands. The language she had heard him speak only a few times before. He held out one hand towards the top of the nearest column while his other closed in finality. A searing white bolt erupted from his hand slamming into the top of the column. Sparks poured from the top of the column emitting a roaring crack that wreathed with the moving bolt. He held the bolt for a few seconds letting sparks and bits of stone spray to the ground below before he closed his hand.

Usually when a character does magic all I mention is the character going through the precepts; hand motions, words, concentrating. I don't say they are doing precept one first then 20, then 39..... Usually it's just them doing the precepts then the magic. Except on rare occasions where they are attempting something more complex then there are a few details on the complexity of a certain precept.

The detail you give in the example is fine, but if the second or third or tenth or thirtieth time someone casts a spell, you go into anywhere near that level of detail, you're likely to bore your audience to tears. (The longer it's been since the last time the reader saw it, the more detail you can use, but be wary.)

There's a reason why, in movies, the first time someone uses a magic power, it's shown in slo-mo closeups, and almost every time after that, it's fast (unless something is switched up, e.g. a significant variation on the power). That's because it's cool to see it in detail once, but seeing it in detail ten times gets old, no matter how awesome it is.

 

[Light]

With the content for sorcery based in precepts it seems more alchemical in nature. Since it's formulaic, the mystery angle could represent any number of ways people respond to, learn or are societally affected by magic, and it leaves a lot of room for creativity. Particularly when certain precept combinations could be 'forbidden', or 'catastrophic'. Or a race to acquire certain precepts by the protags before the antags get their hands on it.

I think it's a great idea when you treat the precepts from the mystery angle, because then they become very stable plot devices for introducing new characters, environments, and side stories.