• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Omniscient Narrator and Alternate POV (within a scene)

Jerry

Minstrel
Switching from one's perspective to another in one scene in an omniscient view. I'm writing in an omniscient viewpoint and I have two characters within one scene who we are concentrating on. I'm doing my best, or trying, to stay out of their heads and head-hop - and using the omniscient narrator to tell the story. I would love some examples in fiction that shows this duality and transition if possible. Not a multiple POV where we split into page breaks or chapter headings, or moving from first person to third, but handling perspective from the omniscient narrator's POV within one scene and or paragraph as the narrator describes the scene and or possible thoughts. I think I have something, but want to explore the proper use of words and description and see if I'm on the right path.

Many thanks!
 

Malik

Auror
I have two novels written this way, and I am working on the third right now in another window.

Douglas Adams has five. The entire HHGTTG series is in omniscient third, and is one of the best examples of turn-on-a-dime perspective shifts in omniscient.

Tons of stuff on omniscient third on my blog, as well; it's searchable.

The short version is that when you're writing perspective character shifts in omniscient, think of it like the narrator doing impressions while telling you the story. Because omniscient is exactly that: it should feel like someone sitting on your couch, drink in hand, telling you a story.

A perspective or framing shift in omniscient third needs to either:

A.) reflect the voice, perceptions, and concerns of the new focus character--again, think of it like the narrator doing a spot-on impression;

or

B.) stay completely in character for the narrator, who somehow knows what that perspective character was experiencing at that moment, and is telling you because it somehow makes the story better.

Option B is easier.

Option A is why practically no one writes in omniscient anymore, and sure as hell no indies working against the clock. Option A involves meticulous work; this is where you spend two hours taking out a comma and half an hour putting it back trying to get the voice just right. It can take years to dial in a novel in omniscient third.

Really, though, no matter how you handle this, or however well, readers (and other authors) who have no idea what omniscient third actually is are still going to call you out for "head-hopping" because you didn't start a new scene with every perspective shift, so get ready for that, too. It's just going to happen. Trust your editor.

FWIW, I was recently told by another author, who is more successful than me and whose opinion I respect on many things, that "omniscient third doesn't exist anymore." I remain undeterred but take it or leave it.
 

Jerry

Minstrel
Many thanks Malik - I'm gonna have a go at your blog too.

As saying - 'it doesn't exist anymore' is something I've certainly read across the boards, but just because an agency feels it antiquated, doesn't mean the average reader does or shall. I just prefer it overall in that, B). is my option. I just need to read a few more examples, especially in regards to action and or tension scenes to see if my approach is correct. I will go with your suggestions and see what I read. Again, many thanks.
 
I'm doing my best, or trying, to stay out of their heads and head-hop - and using the omniscient narrator to tell the story.

If I'm understanding you...you want the telling to be coming entirely from the omniscient narrator and not give the impression of hopping into one head and then the next?

BTW, "head-hopping" is not a bad thing at all when writing in omniscient—if that's the kind of omniscient you want to do. There's a vibrant sort of omniscient which does exactly this. I think this is Malik's "A" option from his post above. Head-hopping is considered a bad thing when you are writing from a third-limited POV or first-person POV (perhaps, heh), and since those are the two most popular POV strategies, head-hopping has a bad reputation.

but handling perspective from the omniscient narrator's POV within one scene and or paragraph as the narrator describes the scene and or possible thoughts

But if you want all this coming from the narrator's POV without delving too deeply into the heads of the characters, that's fine too. You can check out the first chapter of the first Harry Potter book to see an example of one way to do this. In the second half of that chapter. Dumbledore and McGonagall have met outside Harry's new home and are discussing events. Rowling uses a narrator's voice to describe things about them that imply or outright tell what they are seeing, thinking, and feeling. I posted some sentences from that in an older post; I'll put them here also:

  • She threw a sharp, sideways glance at Dumbledore here, as though hoping he was going to tell her something, but he didn't, so she went on.
  • "No, thank you," said Professor McGonagall coldy, as though she didn't think this was the moment for lemon drops.
  • Professor McGonagall flinched, but Dumbledore, who was unsticking two lemon drops, seemed not to notice.
  • It seemed that Professor McGonagall had reached the point she was most anxious to discuss....
  • [Speaking of D.'s odd watch.] It must have made sense to Dumbledore, though, because he put it back in his pocket and said....

Seems...to whom? On the one hand, this might be an example of "getting in the head" of each viewing the other, or of at least trying to give the impression that each of the two wizards has a limited perspective or knowledge of the other's state of being/intention. On the other, this could be addressing a generic "you," and the storyteller may be omniscient but isn't wanting to reveal all details to the reader. I.e., it's almost as if you, dear reader, are an invisible person standing there with these two, watching them, and you can only make guesses about them.

I thought the "as though" and "seemed" and "must have" constructions were interesting ways for Rowling's narrator to imply or tell those inner dimensions of the characters

Professor McGonagall said something coldly? Who is judging that speech as being cold? The narrator. Who knows that she was "most anxious to discuss" something? The narrator.

I think this might be one way to do it via the "B" method Malik mentioned.

Sometimes it's better to think in terms of close and distant POV.

When you are "closest" you are basically inside the head of the character:

  • She threw a sharp, sideways glance at Dumbledore. Was he was going to tell her something? Silence stretched, and she had to take a breath. I guess he's going to guard his secrets, hmmph.
  • "No, thank you," said Professor McGonagall. Of all times to focus on lemon drops, as if that hadn't happened and this wasn't about to happen!
But if you want the narration to come only from the omniscient narrator, you are at a distance from those heads. The narrator may well summarize the character's thoughts and feelings—

FifthView typed the words knowing full well he could write three thousand, ten thousand words on the topic, but he was also the sort to equivocate over his own greatness. He often feared he was prone to rambling and bloat.

He stopped midstream. He was about to delete half of what he had written.​

—but this isn't quite the same as being up close in the head, heh.

So here's a trick, similar to Malik's suggestion of imagining a narrator sitting on your couch telling a story. Imagine that you are writing a character's dialogue in a story. This character is an outside observer who witnessed the event, has some knowledge (true or mistaken) of the character involved, and is telling her companion the tale:

Bob sighed. Mythic Scribes was often so infuriating! That FifthView was at it again, pontificating from the podium that every unpublished author with an ego used for his lectures on the site! He said, "FifthView needs to take a break."

Carol said, "Why?"

"He just goes on and on!"

Carol shifted in her seat. "Well you don't know him like I do."

The reproach in her eyes stopped him. He loved her eyes.

Carol said, "I was at his house once, and we were talking about using imagery. We used to have long conversations like that. There was a post on Mythic Scribes he had just read, and he was telling me what he thought. He was sitting as close to me as you are now."

Bob held his tongue. Wait, had he swallowed it? He didn't like that one bit.

Carol continued. "Well we talked about it for a long time. Finally, I told him to go ahead and write a reply to the thread. He had a lot to say, and I knew he had to get it off his chest.

"FifthView typed the words knowing full well he could write three thousand, ten thousand words on the topic, but he was also the sort to equivocate over his own greatness. He often feared he was prone to rambling and bloat—"

"—well he is—"

"—He stopped midstream. He was about to delete half of what he had written. His finger hovered over the backspace button. Then he said, 'Screw it' and hit Post Reply."

Of course he did. But the look on Carol's face held a secret. "I don't understand," Bob said.

"I said he stopped midstream, right? Then hit Post Reply?"

"Oh," Bob said.​
 
Last edited:
Top